Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?

[Dos Equis]

Sure sounds like it. 

[Dos Equis]

Pro abortion groups want taxpayers to pay for abortions. 

[Dos Equis]

White House refuses to rule it out:

[Straw Man]

I'd be fine if they took the entire budget for the office of faith based initiatives and used it specifically to pay for abortions

[Dos Equis]

Good discussion by Rep. Pitts:

[Straw Man]

last time I checked abortions were still considered a medical procedure

I am against tax dollars being used to fund exorcisms

[Dos Equis]

Hmmmm.  I smell dishonesty . . . .

Is Obama lying about government funding of abortion?
By: BARBARA HOLLINGSWORTH
Local Opinion Editor
08/21/09 4:31 PM EDT

In a Wednesday conference call with health care reform supporters, President Barack Obama called “untrue” and “a fabrication” charges that the White House-backed legislation would result in “government funding of abortions.”

But Douglas Johnson, legislative director for the National Right to Life Committee, says it was Obama who “brazenly misrepresented the abortion-related component of the health care legislation that his congressional allies and staff have crafted.”

“As amended by the House Energy and Commerce Committee on July 30 (the Capps-Waxman Amendment), the bill backed by the White House (H.R. 3200) explicitly authorizes the government plan to cover all elective abortions,” Johnson said. “Obama apparently seeks to hide behind a technical distinction between tax funds and government-collected premiums. But these are merely two types of public funds, collected and spent by government agencies.

“The Obama-backed legislation makes it explicitly clear that no citizen would be allowed to enroll in the government plan unless he or she is willing to give the federal agency an extra amount calculated to cover the cost of all elective abortions - this would not be optional. The abortionists would bill the federal government and would be paid by the federal government. These are public funds, and this is government funding of abortion.”

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Is-Obama-lying-about-government-funding-of-abortion-53965722.html

[Straw Man]

Hmmmm.  I smell dishonesty . . . .

Is Obama lying about government funding of abortion?
By: BARBARA HOLLINGSWORTH
Local Opinion Editor
08/21/09 4:31 PM EDT

In a Wednesday conference call with health care reform supporters, President Barack Obama called “untrue” and “a fabrication” charges that the White House-backed legislation would result in “government funding of abortions.”

But Douglas Johnson, legislative director for the National Right to Life Committee, says it was Obama who “brazenly misrepresented the abortion-related component of the health care legislation that his congressional allies and staff have crafted.”

“As amended by the House Energy and Commerce Committee on July 30 (the Capps-Waxman Amendment), the bill backed by the White House (H.R. 3200) explicitly authorizes the government plan to cover all elective abortions,” Johnson said. “Obama apparently seeks to hide behind a technical distinction between tax funds and government-collected premiums. But these are merely two types of public funds, collected and spent by government agencies.

“The Obama-backed legislation makes it explicitly clear that no citizen would be allowed to enroll in the government plan unless he or she is willing to give the federal agency an extra amount calculated to cover the cost of all elective abortions - this would not be optional. The abortionists would bill the federal government and would be paid by the federal government. These are public funds, and this is government funding of abortion.”

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Is-Obama-lying-about-government-funding-of-abortion-53965722.html

I don't see the problem.

Don't health insurance companies cover abortions in some circumstances now.   Do you think the $ you pay in premium goes to pay only for your healthcare?   Of course not.  It goes into the pot and is used to pay for whatever health care expense that the insurance company is forced to pay when they can't first find a way to deny coverage.

I see no problem here at all

 

[The True Adonis]

I don't see the problem.

Don't health insurance companies cover abortions in some circumstances now.   Do you think the $ you pay in premium goes to pay only for your healthcare?   Of course not.  It goes into the pot and is used to pay for whatever health care expense that the insurance company is forced to pay when they can't first find a way to deny coverage.

I see no problem here at all

 

Most current Private Plans (about 90 percent of them) cover abortions entirely, yet you won`t see these morons boycotting, questioning,discussing or even dropping their plan even though abortion is covered.  They also have no qualms with their employer purchasing such plans.

It really boils down to pure ignorance.

[Straw Man]

Most current Private Plans (about 90 percent of them) cover abortions entirely, yet you won`t see these morons boycotting, questioning,discussing or even dropping their plan even though abortion is covered.  They also have no qualms with their employer purchasing such plans.

It really boils down to pure ignorance.

so you're suggesting that Bum could be paying into a plan right now that uses his premium dollars to pay for abortions?

I'm sure if this is true that Bum will do the honorable and consistent thing and immediately drop his health insurance.

He lives in Hawaii and from a report that I've read recently there are only 2 companies that control 98% of the market so he has an abundance of other options to choose from.

[Dos Equis]

He lied to the Pope?   

Obama misled Pope on abortion, the president's healthcare hidden agenda
July 21, 3:23 PM
Manchester Faith & Culture Examiner
Dyan Puma

From rationing surgery and medicine to redistributing and raising your tax dollars for abortion, Obama's nationalized healthcare is bad for America. While Obama continues to reject the GOP's valid claim that his bill will cost Americans more for less coverage – and not just on services but coverage for millions of families the billion-turned-trillion dollar budget can’t afford – additional issues are surfacing and the deeply felt cost of this unsustainable and massive medical welfare program will be the large loss of human lives.
"In remarks on the House floor last week, Congressman Chris Smith argued that President Obama purposely misled Pope Benedict XVI when he said that he “wants to reduce abortion” at their July 10 meeting." This is according to a recent CNA article, which follows in full text.
"Smith recalled the president's statement to the Pope and pointed out that Obama has repeated it several times to different audiences. And yet, Smith charged, Obama’s actions have not aligned with his words. “He says one thing and does precisely the opposite.”
"Now, the New Jersey Congressman said, Obama is offering a plan for health care reform that is a thinly veiled attempt to increase access to abortion on demand. The plan would increase funding for abortions and allow abortion services to be considered part of “basic health care” required by all insurance plans, including private plans.
"Smith pointed to information from the Guttmacher Institute, which has stated that “when taxpayer funding is not available, between 20 and 35 percent of Medicaid abortions that would have been procured simply don't occur.”
"These children go on to be born, he explained, referencing the millions of children throughout the country who are able to live their own lives and pursue their own hopes and dreams “because taxpayer subsidies didn't effectuate their demise.”
“The ugly truth is that if his so-called health care reform care bill, if enacted, will lead to millions of additional deaths to children and millions of mothers will be wounded,” Smith said.
"Rep. Smith concluded his remarks by encouraging his fellow congressmen to vote against the health care bill and insisting that “[t]here will be children who will die if this legislation becomes law simply because the subsidies are there to effectuate their deaths.”

http://www.examiner.com/x-11053-Manchester-Faith--Culture-Examiner~y2009m7d21-Obama-misled-Pope-on-abortion-the-presidents-healthcare-hidden-agenda

[Straw Man]

He lied to the Pope?   

Obama misled Pope on abortion, the president's healthcare hidden agenda
July 21, 3:23 PM
Manchester Faith & Culture Examiner
Dyan Puma

From rationing surgery and medicine to redistributing and raising your tax dollars for abortion, Obama's nationalized healthcare is bad for America. While Obama continues to reject the GOP's valid claim that his bill will cost Americans more for less coverage – and not just on services but coverage for millions of families the billion-turned-trillion dollar budget can’t afford – additional issues are surfacing and the deeply felt cost of this unsustainable and massive medical welfare program will be the large loss of human lives.
"In remarks on the House floor last week, Congressman Chris Smith argued that President Obama purposely misled Pope Benedict XVI when he said that he “wants to reduce abortion” at their July 10 meeting." This is according to a recent CNA article, which follows in full text.
"Smith recalled the president's statement to the Pope and pointed out that Obama has repeated it several times to different audiences. And yet, Smith charged, Obama’s actions have not aligned with his words. “He says one thing and does precisely the opposite.”
"Now, the New Jersey Congressman said, Obama is offering a plan for health care reform that is a thinly veiled attempt to increase access to abortion on demand. The plan would increase funding for abortions and allow abortion services to be considered part of “basic health care” required by all insurance plans, including private plans.
"Smith pointed to information from the Guttmacher Institute, which has stated that “when taxpayer funding is not available, between 20 and 35 percent of Medicaid abortions that would have been procured simply don't occur.”
"These children go on to be born, he explained, referencing the millions of children throughout the country who are able to live their own lives and pursue their own hopes and dreams “because taxpayer subsidies didn't effectuate their demise.”
“The ugly truth is that if his so-called health care reform care bill, if enacted, will lead to millions of additional deaths to children and millions of mothers will be wounded,” Smith said.
"Rep. Smith concluded his remarks by encouraging his fellow congressmen to vote against the health care bill and insisting that “[t]here will be children who will die if this legislation becomes law simply because the subsidies are there to effectuate their deaths.”

http://www.examiner.com/x-11053-Manchester-Faith--Culture-Examiner~y2009m7d21-Obama-misled-Pope-on-abortion-the-presidents-healthcare-hidden-agenda

where is the lie?

[Skip8282]

Beach Bum,

Just curious where the line is drawn in this.  If your argument is people who don't support abortion should not have to pay for it, then does that mean people who don't support medical care at all (ex:  religions that advocate "faith-based healing") should not have to pay taxes for medicaid and medicare?

[Dos Equis]

Beach Bum,

Just curious where the line is drawn in this.  If your argument is people who don't support abortion should not have to pay for it, then does that mean people who don't support medical care at all (ex:  religions that advocate "faith-based healing") should not have to pay taxes for medicaid and medicare?

Skip I wasn't making an argument.  I asked a question (Is Obama being dishonest about abortion being a part of healthcare reform).  Absolutely sounds like it is and that he is just flat out lying about it.  Pretty bold.  I hope someone holds him accountable.   

Regarding your question (which wasn't an argument I've made), I'm not quite sure what you mean.  The  Hyde Amendment already precludes taxpayer funded abortions for Medicaid. 

[Skip8282]

Skip I wasn't making an argument.  I asked a question (Is Obama being dishonest about abortion being a part of healthcare reform).  Absolutely sounds like it is and that he is just flat out lying about it.  Pretty bold.  I hope someone holds him accountable.   

Regarding your question (which wasn't an argument I've made), I'm not quite sure what you mean.  The  Hyde Amendment already precludes taxpayer funded abortions for Medicaid. 

If that's not the argument you're making, then fair enough.  It just appeared to me that way and I stand corrected.

[Dos Equis]

If that's not the argument you're making, then fair enough.  It just appeared to me that way and I stand corrected.

No problem.  But just to be clear, I do not support taxpayer funded abortions, even though we already have them by subsidizing the abortion mill called Planned Parenthood. 

[Skip8282]

No problem.  But just to be clear, I do not support taxpayer funded abortions, even though we already have them by subsidizing the abortion mill called Planned Parenthood. 

Well I guess that's the reasoning I'm trying to follow.  Let's put the current law on the side right now.  Most objection to tax payer funded abortion that I know of is based on people's religous beliefs against abortion.  So I'm trying to follow where a person would draw the line.  It would seem to me to follow that people who object to medical care all together (faith based healers) would not want their tax money going towards medicaid and medicare.  It seems in one case the religous views of people are important and they should not have to fund abortion, but in the other, it's basically fuck your beliefs, you're going to pay into medicare/medicaid.  Where's the line?

[Straw Man]

Skip I wasn't making an argument.  I asked a question (Is Obama being dishonest about abortion being a part of healthcare reform).  Absolutely sounds like it is and that he is just flat out lying about it.  Pretty bold.  I hope someone holds him accountable.   

Regarding your question (which wasn't an argument I've made), I'm not quite sure what you mean.  The  Hyde Amendment already precludes taxpayer funded abortions for Medicaid. 

where is the lie?

Obama told the pope he wants to reduce abortions

He can want to reduce abortions while still making sure that health care reforms includes access to abortion (a legitimate medical procedure)

The two are not mutually exclusive

Just more hysteria and misreprensentation from the anti-abortion crowd to rile up their sheeple

[tonymctones]

plastic surgery is a legit medical procedure as well but its an ELECTIVE procedure same as the majority of abortions straw. Should we cover tit jobs as well?

As much as obama ran on us gaining the moral high ground yada yada yada he sure seems to take the morality out of the abortion issue doesnt he?

[Straw Man]

plastic surgery is a legit medical procedure as well but its an ELECTIVE procedure same as the majority of abortions straw. Should we cover tit jobs as well?

As much as obama ran on us gaining the moral high ground yada yada yada he sure seems to take the morality out of the abortion issue doesnt he?

many abortions are not merely elective but are for legitimate medical purposes. 

The idea that Obama lied about wanting to reduce abortion (if that is actually the alleged lie that the article is referring to) doesn't hold water for me.

As much as fundies and other dim-witted people would prefer (not referring to you), the world is not black and white.

One can certainly want to reduce abortions while at the same time making sure that women who need (or even want) abortions have access to the procedure.

Obama can reduce abortions by increasing valid sex education, making condoms available, making adoptions a more viable/popular option,  etc...

btw - I can think of worse uses of my tax dollars than breast augmentation surgery (then again I'm a fan of the small and medium sized titties too - natural is always best IMO)

[tonymctones]

many abortions are not merely elective but are for legitimate medical purposes. 

As much as fundies and other dim-witted people would prefer (not referring to you), the world is not black and white.

btw - I can think of worse uses of my tax dollars than breast augmentation surgery (then again I'm a fan of the small and medium sized titties too - natural is always best IMO)

LOL no doubt I cant say you would have to twist my arm to much to get me on board with that 

I agree straw many abortions are for legitimate medical reasons but the majority are not.

Why should the tax payer pay for abortions that are elective?

[Straw Man]

LOL no doubt I cant say you would have to twist my arm to much to get me on board with that 

I agree straw many abortions are for legitimate medical reasons but the majority are not.

Why should the tax payer pay for abortions that are elective?

I'm not saying "taxpayers" should.

If we have a national health care system then it should provide the same access to medical procedures that any health plan does ....or more (hopefully). 

The abortion issue is a smoke screen to keep people distracted from the larger issue.

People who are dying because they can't get health care aren't worrying about abortion

[tonymctones]

I'm not saying "taxpayers" should.

If we have a national health care system then it should provide the same access to medical procedures that any health plan does ....or more (hopefully). 

The abortion issue is a smoke screen to keep people distracted from the larger issue.

People who are dying because they can't get health care aren't worrying about abortion

THAT IS NOT THE LARGER ISSUE...

the issue is the problem with our current health care system, the fact that their are ppl out their without insurance is another SEPERATE PROBLEM...

The whole situation is fairly ironic to me obama trying to use the moral BS to say that we should give health care to all but then being ok with abortion...

[Straw Man]

THAT IS NOT THE LARGER ISSUE...

the issue is the problem with our current health care system, the fact that their are ppl out their without insurance is another SEPERATE PROBLEM...

The whole situation is fairly ironic to me obama trying to use the moral BS to say that we should give health care to all but then being ok with abortion...

lack of healthcare, unfair practices by health insurance companies, sky-rocketing costs...... That's 99% of the issue.

bullshit about abortions is just chaff for the stupid people to chase so they don't think about the real issue

[tonymctones]

lack of healthcare, unfair practices by health insurance companies, sky-rocketing costs...... That's 99% of the issue.

bullshit about abortions is just chaff for the stupid people to chase so they don't think about the real issue

this is your problem straw youre falling for the bull shit agenda obama is pushing

weve already gone over this but you STILL refuse to acknowledge and try and push them as part of the same problem.

THEY ARE 2 SEPERATE PROBLEMS!!!

The real issue is the problem with the health care system we currently have for the ppl who actually pay for  health care not that there are ppl out there without health care even though there are viable options out there for them...

quit spouting obama/msnbc talking points and think for you fuking self.