Author Topic: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform? (Read 11913 times)

Straw Man · « **Reply #50 on:** August 23, 2009, 02:54:24 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 02:50:16 PM

that speaks volumes...

I sincerely hope obama does get reform on health care passed I also sincerely hope he doesnt intiate another govt hand out program.

Its not really important but you seem to be facinated with this topic more then anyone your posted more in this thread then beach.

me too

I"m hardly fascinated.

just killng time and watching Copland and cooking some food for the week.

I think my point of view was pretty clear cut on page 1 of this thread

Skip8282 · « **Reply #51 on:** August 23, 2009, 04:21:15 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 01:06:45 PM

Some ppl are actually against abortion straw and seeing as it is in the MAJORITY of cases elective the idea that it shouldnt be funded by those who are against it is a legit concern.

Quote from: Skip8282 on August 23, 2009, 01:55:58 PM

So I'll ask you my question to BB. Should people who believe in faith-based healing be allowed to stop paying for Medicaid and Medicare?

C'mon, Tony/BB. Man up and give me an answer!

tonymctones · « **Reply #52 on:** August 23, 2009, 04:28:19 PM »

Quote from: Skip8282 on August 23, 2009, 04:21:15 PM

C'mon, Tony/BB. Man up and give me an answer!

sorry skip i didnt see that question

I dont quite understand how this applies or how it came about, was that from this thread?

If they feel they dont want or wont use it i think they should be allowed to quit paying in. Im not quite sure if thats what your looking for or not though.

Skip8282 · « **Reply #53 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:01:23 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 04:28:19 PM

sorry skip i didnt see that question

I dont quite understand how this applies or how it came about, was that from this thread?

If they feel they dont want or wont use it i think they should be allowed to quit paying in. Im not quite sure if thats what your looking for or not though.

Yeah, basically that's what I wanted - your opinion on that. Just seems to open a can of worms though...

Straw Man · « **Reply #54 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:12:04 PM »

Quote from: Skip8282 on August 23, 2009, 05:01:23 PM

Yeah, basically that's what I wanted - your opinion on that. Just seems to open a can of worms though...

I have an idea

let's open up medicare to everyone and give everyone the choice to opt in or out

If you're out then you're out forever and you're on your own with private insurance

no mercy if you can't afford it, get kicked off, lose your job or are denied coverage

let EVERYONE put their money where their mouth is and see what happens

tonymctones · « **Reply #55 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:13:52 PM »

Quote from: Skip8282 on August 23, 2009, 05:01:23 PM

Yeah, basically that's what I wanted - your opinion on that. Just seems to open a can of worms though...

I totally agree like with what straw said about him not wanting to finance the war etc...

My main beef with obamas plan is me subsidizing somebody elses health care I sincerely want health care reform to bring down prices but as far as providing health care to all on the back of others im not really in favor of that. We all benifit from the safety that our soldiers provide us with so I dont see that as being an option. The office of faith based intiatives or whatever it is I can see his point.

Straw Man · « **Reply #56 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:16:39 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:13:52 PM

I totally agree like with what straw said about him not wanting to finance the war etc...

My main beef with obamas plan is me subsidizing somebody elses health care I sincerely want health care reform to bring down prices but as far as providing health care to all on the back of others im not really in favor of that. We all benifit from the safety that our soldiers provide us with so I dont see that as being an option. The office of faith based intiatives or whatever it is I can see his point.

yeah but I am subsidizing the war along with tax credits for oil companies, the office of faith based initiatives and all kinds of other shit I don't agree with.

Do you really think it's viable that every taxpayer get's a long checklist and get's to choose to pay for only the things they support?

I know it's a nice idea but think about it for a few minutes before you answer

tonymctones · « **Reply #57 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:17:03 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:12:04 PM

I have an idea

let's open up medicare to everyone and give everyone the choice to opt in or out

If you're out then you're out forever and you're on your own with private insurance

no mercy if you can't afford it, get kicked off, lose your job or are denied coverage

let EVERYONE put their money where their mouth is and see what happens

LOL I dont think many ppl are saying they shouldnt get some help but there are options already out there for ppl straw. If its simply that these ppl cant afford it then obamas plan without the public option supposedly will bring down prices.

tonymctones · « **Reply #58 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:21:28 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:16:39 PM

yeah but I am subsidizing the war along with tax credits for oil companies, the office of faith based initiatives and all kinds of other shit I don't agree with.

Do you really think it's viable that every taxpayer get's a long checklist and get's to choose to pay for only the things they support?

I know it's a nice idea but think about it for a few minutes before you answer

you cant compare medicaid/medicare to the war or oil company tax breaks etc. as far as options to choose to subsidize or not.

Whether you choose to pay into medicaid/medicare only effects you, lack of money for the military effects everyone...Higher gas prices effects everyone...

Ive already told you Im much more in favor of bringing down gas prices before health care costs. Which just proves my point it isnt about the cost to obama its about giving health care to everyone he is just pushing the cost/coverage angle to help push his agenda.

Straw Man · « **Reply #59 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:23:06 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:17:03 PM

LOL I dont think many ppl are saying they shouldnt get some help but there are options already out there for ppl straw. If its simply that these ppl cant afford it then obamas plan without the public option supposedly will bring down prices.

great

name some of those options you're talking about

what affordable option would you suggest for a self employed person with a "pre-existing condition"

let's hear it

Straw Man · « **Reply #60 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:25:47 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:21:28 PM

you cant compare medicaid/medicare to the war or oil company tax breaks etc. as far as options to choose to subsidize or not.

Whether you choose to pay into medicaid/medicare only effects you, lack of money for the military effects everyone...Higher gas prices effects everyone...

Ive already told you Im much more in favor of bringing down gas prices before health care costs. Which just proves my point it isnt about the cost to obama its about giving health care to everyone he is just pushing the cost/coverage angle to help push his agenda.

classic

so our military adventures are necessary so I can have cheap gas.

what the fuck would I care about cheap gas (or pretty much anything) if I'm chronically ill and can't afford health care

or if I'm forced into bankruptcy because my insurance company throws me off when I make a claim

etc...

tonymctones · « **Reply #61 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:27:46 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:23:06 PM

great

name some of those options you're talking about

what affordable option would you suggest for a self employed person with a "pre-existing condition"

let's hear it

there are already govt programs etc. out there for ppl

you pick one specific person with specific conditions and expect that to justify covering the rest of the millions LOL SERIOUSLY? again the vast majority of ppl out there without insurance have options sure there are certain ppl that fall in the cracks but those few DO NOT JUSTIFY covering everyone.

Skip8282 · « **Reply #62 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:31:16 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:21:28 PM

you cant compare medicaid/medicare to the war or oil company tax breaks etc. as far as options to choose to subsidize or not.

Whether you choose to pay into medicaid/medicare only effects you, lack of money for the military effects everyone...Higher gas prices effects everyone...

That's open to some serious interpretation. If people don't get the basic health care they need, we all pay for it at the emergency room. That's never going to change unless somethings done about healthcare. I'm still on the fence about socializing health care, but I don't see the republicans ever offering up serious alternatives for change.

Straw Man · « **Reply #63 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:33:29 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:21:28 PM

you cant compare medicaid/medicare to the war or oil company tax breaks etc. as far as options to choose to subsidize or not.

Whether you choose to pay into medicaid/medicare only effects you, lack of money for the military effects everyone...Higher gas prices effects everyone...

Ive already told you Im much more in favor of bringing down gas prices before health care costs. Which just proves my point it isnt about the cost to obama its about giving health care to everyone he is just pushing the cost/coverage angle to help push his agenda.

wow - I've got to comment twice

so in your world life sustaining health care or even access to basic health maintenance is less important that tax cuts for oil companies or cheap gas

but oh yeah, you also really really really care about fetuses too

tonymctones · « **Reply #64 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:33:55 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:25:47 PM

classic

so our military adventures are necessary so I can have cheap gas.

what the fuck would I care about cheap gas (or pretty much anything) if I'm chronically ill and can't afford health care

or if I'm forced into bankruptcy because my insurance company throws me off when I make a claim

etc...

I dont know where you got that from...

at the same time straw what would it matter if you had great health coverage but constantly bombarded by terrorist?

Straw Man · « **Reply #65 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:34:30 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:27:46 PM

there are already govt programs etc. out there for ppl

you pick one specific person with specific conditions and expect that to justify covering the rest of the millions LOL SERIOUSLY? again the vast majority of ppl out there without insurance have options sure there are certain ppl that fall in the cracks but those few DO NOT JUSTIFY covering everyone.

NAME ONE

tonymctones · « **Reply #66 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:36:01 PM »

Quote from: Skip8282 on August 23, 2009, 05:31:16 PM

That's open to some serious interpretation. If people don't get the basic health care they need, we all pay for it at the emergency room. That's never going to change unless somethings done about healthcare. I'm still on the fence about socializing health care, but I don't see the republicans ever offering up serious alternatives for change.

Why not simply implement those actions that obama wants to do to supposedly pay for the public option?

Straw Man · « **Reply #67 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:37:36 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:33:55 PM

I dont know where you got that from...

at the same time straw what would it matter if you had great health coverage but constantly bombarded by terrorist?

are you serious.

maybe I'm missing the nuance

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:21:28 PM

you cant compare medicaid/medicare to the war or oil company tax breaks etc. as far as options to choose to subsidize or not.

Whether you choose to pay into medicaid/medicare only effects you, lack of money for the military effects everyone...Higher gas prices effects everyone...

Ive already told you Im much more in favor of bringing down gas prices before health care costs.

tonymctones · « **Reply #68 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:42:23 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:33:29 PM

wow - I've got to comment twice

so in your world life sustaining health care or even access to basic health maintenance is less important that tax cuts for oil companies or cheap gas

but oh yeah, you also really really really care about fetuses too

Nope again youre really living up to your name, b/c youre really distorting my view...

Im for bringing down the prices and making health insurance more affordable and doing away with shady practices ive said that many times. Im not in favor of giving everyone health care and yes I would rather obama deal with the oil companies and focus on their windfall profits rather then the insurance companies

tonymctones · « **Reply #69 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:43:26 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:37:36 PM

are you serious.

maybe I'm missing the nuance

and from that you got that i said that military ventures are necessary for low health cost etc....? fuking seriously are you drunk?

tonymctones · « **Reply #70 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:44:01 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:34:30 PM

NAME ONE

dude youve named a few govt programs, here though gold card

tonymctones · « **Reply #71 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:46:20 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:33:29 PM

wow - I've got to comment twice

so in your world life sustaining health care or even access to basic health maintenance is less important that tax cuts for oil companies or cheap gas

but oh yeah, you also really really really care about fetuses too

Fetuses dont have options do they? they are being terminated b/c in MOST cases ppl want to shirk their responsibility arent they?

Ppl have basic health maintenance again you cannot be denied at a ER there are other options.

Straw Man · « **Reply #72 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:47:58 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:21:28 PM

you cant compare medicaid/medicare to the war or oil company tax breaks etc. as far as options to choose to subsidize or not.

Whether you choose to pay into medicaid/medicare only effects you, lack of money for the military effects everyone...Higher gas prices effects everyone...

I'm still lost on this

You're saying I have no choice in subsidizing cheap gas because it effects EVERYONE

but health care doesn't effect everyone and is less important that cheap gas

WTF man?

Straw Man · « **Reply #73 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:50:53 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:46:20 PM

Fetuses dont have options do they? they are being terminated b/c in MOST cases ppl want to shirk their responsibility arent they?

Ppl have basic health maintenance again you cannot be denied at a ER there are other options.

name the program that the self employed person with a pre-existing condition can use

let's make it easier. It can also be a program for someone who has insurance but their company has denied coverage or and we can also add the person who has insurance but can't afford their 5k or 10k deductible

tonymctones · « **Reply #74 on:** August 23, 2009, 05:51:31 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:47:58 PM

I'm still lost on this

You're saying I have no choice in subsidizing cheap gas because it effect EVERYONE

but health care doesn't effect everyone and is less important that cheap gas

WFT man?

OK you not giving a tax break to a company effects more then just you, you get it?

youre tax money not going to the military effects more then just you, you get it?

you not paying into medicaid/medicare if you dont want the benefits only effects you, you get it?