Author Topic: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform? (Read 11883 times)

Straw Man · « **Reply #100 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:22:51 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 07:16:21 PM

BIZUMP

and Ill pay my own bills straw Im also searching for a full time job that provides healthcare you know just one of those other options out there

now answer the fuking question jack ass

more likely if you experience a catastrophic event

that you will receive care (at my expense)

won't be able to pay your bills (you're fucked up..... remember?)

and will be forced into bankruptcy

and also facing a semi-permanent fucked up financial situation

GOOD CHOICE on your part since we know you can afford insurance now and choose not to pay for it

tonymctones · « **Reply #101 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:26:12 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 07:22:51 PM

more likely if you experience a catastrophic event

that you will receive care (at my expense)

won't be able to pay your bills (you're fucked up..... remember?)

and will be forced into bankruptcy

and also facing a semi-permanent fucked up financial situation

GOOD CHOICE on your part since we know you can afford insurance now and choose not to pay for it

LOL cool soooo you gonna explain that or what?

Straw Man · « **Reply #102 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:30:38 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:53:34 PM

explain to me why we need a public option to fix that, please tell me that we cant pass legislation that does away with the pre existing conditions clause without providing health care to all.

Ive already said that im in favor of health care reform but youre proving my point the two are not mutually exclusive.

YOU are the reason we need a public option

I thought you would have figured that out by now

Skip8282 · « **Reply #103 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:32:09 PM »

Damn you two are relentless!

tonymctones · « **Reply #104 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:32:22 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:53:34 PM

explain to me why we need a public option to fix that, please tell me that we cant pass legislation that does away with the pre existing conditions clause without providing health care to all.

Ive already said that im in favor of health care reform but youre proving my point the two are not mutually exclusive.

BIZUMP you know straw if obammers is able to lower the cost of healthcare i might just sign up

but id like to know why we need a public option to do away with pre existing conditions, shady practices and high prices etc...

tonymctones · « **Reply #105 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:34:02 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 07:30:38 PM

YOU are the reason we need a public option

I thought you would have figured that out by now

I had nothing to do with your idiotic example...remember?

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:50:53 PM

name the program that the self employed person with a pre-existing condition can use

let's make it easier. It can also be a program for someone who has insurance but their company has denied coverage or and we can also add the person who has insurance but can't afford their 5k or 10k deductible

hmmm ya just like i thought i was no where in that quote so please explain why we would need a public option to fix this problem...

Straw Man · « **Reply #106 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:37:34 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 07:32:22 PM

BIZUMP you know straw if obammers is able to lower the cost of healthcare i might just sign up

but id like to know why we need a public option to do away with pre existing conditions, shady practices and high prices etc...

NO SHIT YOU'D SIGN UP

insurance requires a large group to spread the risk

you don't also need to build in the personal incentive for huge profits for a few individuals or a small group of individuals (shareholders)

I don't buy that premise at all (not saying you are for it - just trying to define the argument)

tonymctones · « **Reply #107 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:38:39 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 07:30:38 PM

YOU are the reason we need a public option

I thought you would have figured that out by now

im not the reason im exercising one of my many options and looking for gainful employment that will provide me with healthcare. Which i promise you is open to the vast majority of the ppl who are unemployed. It may shock you straw that alot of ppl CHOOSE to go without health insurance from time to time. I dont feel I need to buy a policy for a few months why not just GO GET A JOB!!!!!!!!

tonymctones · « **Reply #108 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:41:06 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 07:37:34 PM

NO SHIT YOU'D SIGN UP

insurance requires a large group to spread the risk

you don't also need to build in the personal incentive for huge profits for a few individuals or a small group of individuals (shareholders)

I don't buy that premise at all (not saying you are for it - just trying to define the argument)

lol actually i was being sarcastic i still probably wouldnt sign up right now...

you gonna explain yourself on that one quote or what...i played your game for quite some time straw do me the courtesy.

What about that scenario you gave needed a public option to fix? could the legislation obama is proposing not fix those problems without a public option? So to what end does the public option really serve?

Straw Man · « **Reply #109 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:44:13 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 07:41:06 PM

lol actually i was being sarcastic i still probably wouldnt sign up right now...

you gonna explain yourself on that one quote or what...i played your game for quite some time straw do me the courtesy.

What about that scenario you gave needed a public option to fix? could the legislation obama is proposing not fix those problems without a public option? So to what end does the public option really serve?

what quote?

what would you like me to address?

Straw Man · « **Reply #110 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:50:44 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 07:41:06 PM

lol actually i was being sarcastic i still probably wouldnt sign up right now...

you gonna explain yourself on that one quote or what...i played your game for quite some time straw do me the courtesy.

What about that scenario you gave needed a public option to fix? could the legislation obama is proposing not fix those problems without a public option? So to what end does the public option really serve?

so you're a communist or his liberal cousin the socialist

you truly expect others to pay for your catastrophic coverage

right?

tonymctones · « **Reply #111 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:56:36 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 07:44:13 PM

what quote?

what would you like me to address?

youre shitting me right ive been trying to get an answer from you for 2 fuking pages...

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 05:50:53 PM

name the program that the self employed person with a pre-existing condition can use

let's make it easier. It can also be a program for someone who has insurance but their company has denied coverage or and we can also add the person who has insurance but can't afford their 5k or 10k deductible

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 05:53:34 PM

explain to me why we need a public option to fix that, please tell me that we cant pass legislation that does away with the pre existing conditions clause without providing health care to all.

Ive already said that im in favor of health care reform but youre proving my point the two are not mutually exclusive.

tonymctones · « **Reply #112 on:** August 23, 2009, 07:57:33 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 07:50:44 PM

so you're a communist or his liberal cousin the socialist

you truly expect others to pay for your catastrophic coverage

right?

nope thats again why im looking for gainful employment to provide me with health care...you know one of those MANY DIFFERENT OPTIONS OUT THERE AVAILABLE TO ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLL

Straw Man · « **Reply #113 on:** August 23, 2009, 08:02:10 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 07:57:33 PM

nope thats again why im looking for gainful employment to provide me with health care...you know one of those MANY DIFFERENT OPTIONS OUT THERE AVAILABLE TO ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLL

your OPTIONS are extremely limited to non-existent

can we at least agree on that?

tonymctones · « **Reply #114 on:** August 23, 2009, 08:06:22 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 08:02:10 PM

your OPTIONS are extremely limited to non-existent

can we at least agree on that?

dude answer what ive been asking for before we even get back into that shit, i feel like im dealing with a spoiled fuking kindergardner man shit.

Straw Man · « **Reply #115 on:** August 23, 2009, 08:07:37 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 08:06:22 PM

dude answer what ive been asking for before we even get back into that shit, i feel like im dealing with a spoiled fuking kindergardner man shit.

I'm not sure what question you're talking about

state it and I'll anwer

tonymctones · « **Reply #116 on:** August 23, 2009, 08:08:50 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 08:07:37 PM

I'm not sure what question you're talking about

state it and I'll anwer

scroll up a little bit bro or review the last 2 fucking pages youre smart enough im sure you will figure it out.

Straw Man · « **Reply #117 on:** August 23, 2009, 08:10:12 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 08:08:50 PM

scroll up a little bit bro or review the last 2 fucking pages youre smart enough im sure you will figure it out.

fuck you

with the same amount of text you can ask again

ask

and

I

will

answer

tonymctones · « **Reply #118 on:** August 23, 2009, 08:12:57 PM »

fuck it nvm there is no good answer you were proven wrong and just want to avoid it as you have for 3 pages now lets just drop it.

Straw Man · « **Reply #119 on:** August 23, 2009, 08:14:23 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 08:12:57 PM

fuck it nvm there is no good answer you were proven wrong and just want to avoid it as you have for 3 pages now lets just drop it.

tony - I honestly have no idea exacty what question for which you seek an answer

ask away

tonymctones · « **Reply #120 on:** August 23, 2009, 08:16:56 PM »

Quote from: Straw Man on August 23, 2009, 08:14:23 PM

tony - I honestly have no idea exacty what question for which you seek an answer

ask away

dude im not going to go copy and paste your post then my post scroll up i just did it again for the nteenth time in this thread a few posts ago...

Like I said theres no good answer you simply wanted to avoid owning up to the fact that a public option is not needed to reform healthcare and lower costs etc...

Straw Man · « **Reply #121 on:** August 23, 2009, 08:34:24 PM »

Quote from: tonymctones on August 23, 2009, 08:16:56 PM

dude im not going to go copy and paste your post then my post scroll up i just did it again for the nteenth time in this thread a few posts ago...

Like I said theres no good answer you simply wanted to avoid owning up to the fact that a public option is not needed to reform healthcare and lower costs etc...

wtf dude?

I seriously thought I had answered all your questions

what would you like to know?

Dos Equis · « **Reply #122 on:** August 25, 2009, 12:41:20 PM »

Quote from: Skip8282 on August 23, 2009, 05:56:56 AM

Well I guess that's the reasoning I'm trying to follow. Let's put the current law on the side right now. Most objection to tax payer funded abortion that I know of is based on people's religous beliefs against abortion. So I'm trying to follow where a person would draw the line. It would seem to me to follow that people who object to medical care all together (faith based healers) would not want their tax money going towards medicaid and medicare. It seems in one case the religous views of people are important and they should not have to fund abortion, but in the other, it's basically fuck your beliefs, you're going to pay into medicare/medicaid. Where's the line?

I don't really agree with your premise. I don't think people are pro life based on religious beliefs. I think they're pro life because they believe abortion kills a baby and that an unborn baby should have the same rights as people outside the womb.

I can't really speak for faith-based healers. Don't know much about them.

But for me, the line is you don't use compulsory tax dollars to support the most controversial elective procedure in American medicine. I don't think religious views play any role in that line. Doesn't for me.

Dos Equis · « **Reply #123 on:** August 27, 2009, 03:27:10 PM »

Battle Brews Over Abortion in Health Care Fight
Abortion opponents say they will be satisfied only if a health bill specifically bans all abortion coverage in any federally subsidized plan.

Wall Street Journal
FOXNews.com
Thursday, August 27, 2009

Anti-abortion groups are gearing up for a battle in the fall over health-care legislation, another headache for Democrats who already face concerns about the measure's cost and reach.

Most versions of the Democratic health plan would create subsidies for lower-income people to buy private health insurance. If that insurance includes coverage for abortion, as many existing private plans do, it effectively means federal taxpayers are subsidizing abortion, critics of the legislation argue.

While it gets less attention than some other parts of the plan, abortion has often been raised by critics at town-hall meetings during the August congressional recess.

Abortion opponents are funding advertisements targeting key lawmakers. The Family Research Council is running television and radio ads in several states that are home to swing-vote Democratic senators, while the National Right to Life Committee is targeting pro-life Democrats in the House who likely will take the first vote on the measure in September.

Before they vote, "lawmakers will know this is a bill to set up a big federal abortion program," said the right-to-life committee's legislative director, Douglas Johnson.

Those who favor abortion rights say the bills aren't giving any special treatment to abortions. National Organization for Women President Terry O'Neill said the conservatives' proposals would deny many women their reproductive rights. "There is no constitutional basis for taking that away or for any politician to use reproductive health care as a political football," she said.

Abortion opponents say they will be satisfied only if a health bill specifically bans all abortion coverage in any federally subsidized plan. They note that Congress has already established similar bans in other federally funded health programs, such as Medicaid, health insurance for federal workers and military plans. The only exceptions are for rape, incest or danger to the life of the mother.

Click here to continue reading at the Wall Street Journal.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/08/27/battle-brews-abortion-health-care-fight/

Straw Man · « **Reply #124 on:** August 27, 2009, 03:29:32 PM »

Quote from: Beach Bum on August 27, 2009, 03:27:10 PM

Battle Brews Over Abortion in Health Care Fight
Abortion opponents say they will be satisfied only if a health bill specifically bans all abortion coverage in any federally subsidized plan.

who cares what abortion opponents want