Author Topic: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?  (Read 11800 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #125 on: September 09, 2009, 09:16:18 PM »
So said again today that no federal tax dollars would be used to fund abortions.  Sounds dishonest. 

tonymctones

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #126 on: September 09, 2009, 09:24:25 PM »
So said again today that no federal tax dollars would be used to fund abortions.  Sounds dishonest. 
it is same as his postponing the public option bs for later by saying it isnt necissary...

why put wording in the legislation that leaves the door open for it if thats the case?

Dos Equis

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #127 on: September 09, 2009, 09:25:31 PM »
it is same as his postponing the public option bs for later by saying it isnt necissary...

why put wording in the legislation that leaves the door open for it if thats the case?

It really is misleading IMO.  Check out the clips I posted at the start of the thread. 

Straw Man

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #128 on: September 09, 2009, 10:10:47 PM »
So said again today that no federal tax dollars would be used to fund abortions.  Sounds dishonest

"sounds dishonest" ?

wtf does that mean?

obama said that no federal tax dollar would be used to fund abortions and you have a problem with the sound???

wtf are you talking about?




tonymctones

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #129 on: September 09, 2009, 10:13:13 PM »
"sounds dishonest" ?

wtf does that mean?

obama said that no federal tax dollar would be used to fund abortions and you have a problem with the sound???

wtf are you talking about?
when wording in the bill specifically leaves the door open for federal funding for abortions it sounds dishonest... ::)

Straw Man

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #130 on: September 09, 2009, 10:15:28 PM »
when wording in the bill specifically leaves the door open for federal funding for abortions it sounds dishonest... ::)

bum was talking about the wording in the bill?

hey bum, is that what you meant by "sounds dishonest"?

tonymctones

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #131 on: September 09, 2009, 10:24:01 PM »
bum was talking about the wording in the bill?

hey bum, is that what you meant by "sounds dishonest"?

nope but why would he authorize ppl to put together a bill with that in it? he basically told them what he wanted and knew what it said...

he didnt say anything about the wording but why wouldnt he if he is against it?

he is citing the legislation right now preventing it but if he really meant it why wouldnt he address the language in the bill?

Straw Man

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #132 on: September 09, 2009, 10:52:21 PM »
nope but why would he authorize ppl to put together a bill with that in it? he basically told them what he wanted and knew what it said...

he didnt say anything about the wording but why wouldnt he if he is against it?

he is citing the legislation right now preventing it but if he really meant it why wouldnt he address the language in the bill?

what are you talking about?

bum is saying (I think) that when heard Obama say that no federal funding would be used to fund abortions that it sounds dishonest

I don't get it

is it the "sound" or something he said

if it's something he said then

what is it?

Dos Equis

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #133 on: September 11, 2009, 03:36:15 PM »
Redux: Obama Claims Health Care Plan Will Not Cover Abortion Services
Under the current legislation in the House, low and moderate-income Americans can receive subsidies from the federal government -- called "affordability credits" -- to purchase insurance from private companies, some of whom cover abortions.

FOXNews.com

Thursday, September 10, 2009

Critics of health care proposals in Democratic-sponsored legislation on Thursday accused President Obama of offering his own myth when he claimed in a speech Wednesday night that no federal dollars would be used to fund abortions.

While language included in the House bill technically bans the use of taxpayer money to fund abortions, critics say those terms are useless.

"People can use government subsidies to do this," said Douglas Johnson, legislative director for the National Right to Life.

Under the current legislation in the House, people who decide to participate in a government-run "public option or in a health-care exchange, which provides subsidies for private insurance, will pay premiums. Those premiums will be the only money used for abortion services, not any taxpayer funds that may cover the rest of the costs of administering the program, say supporters of the bill. 

"The only funds that may be used to pay for other abortion services are from private funds generated by the policyholders' premiums, whether the policyholder is covered by a private plan or the public option," said Emily Kryder, a spokeswoman for Rep. Lois Capps, D-Calif., who added the amendment to the House bill.

In a one-line response to charges that taxpayers will foot the bill for abortions, Obama Wednesday night called it a "bogus" claim.

"One more misunderstanding I want to clear up -- under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, and federal conscience laws will remain in place," the president said in an address to a joint session of Congress to sell health care reforms.

But critics say the premium vs. taxpayer pots are a distinction without a difference.

"This is a political hoax," Johnson told FOXNews.com before appearing with pro-life lawmakers on Capitol Hill. "The public plan is explicitly authorized to cover all abortions. This is not disputed. They will be paid for out of a federal Treasury account. These are as much federal funds as any other funds at the U.S. Treasury."

Johnson said under the House legislation abortion providers would send their bills directly to the Health and Human Services Department and receive a check from the government for their services.

Obama has called the abortion claim a "fabrication" and "distraction" from passing reform, but the current legislation has ignited a firestorm among lawmakers and pro-life groups who say the president's words are grossly misleading.

Factcheck.org, a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania, wrote last month that the bills now before Congress don't "require" federal money to be used for abortion services.

"The president is right to that limited extent," the project said. "But it's equally true that House and Senate legislation would allow a new 'public' insurance plan to cover abortions, despite language added to the House bill that technically forbids using public funds to pay for them. Obama has said in the past that 'reproductive services' would be covered by his public plan, so it's likely that any new federal insurance plan would cover abortion unless Congress expressly prohibits that."

A poll released Thursday by the Susan B. Anthony List, a pro-life group, found that 43 percent of respondents said they would be less likely to back Obama's health reform legislation if the government pays for abortions.  The poll, which surveyed registered voters from Aug. 30 to Sept. 1, has a margin of error of 3.5 percent.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/10/obamas-abortion-claims-health-speech-misleading-critics-charge/

Dos Equis

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #134 on: March 20, 2010, 12:06:11 PM »
I guess we'll find out tomorrow whether he lied about abortion as well. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #135 on: March 20, 2010, 12:19:20 PM »
I guess we'll find out tomorrow whether he lied about abortion as well. 

There has not been one truthful thing that has come from Obama since day one. 

Beach, I still have not gotten an answer from one obama voter or supporter as to what Obama did in 143 days in the Senate to make him go from admittedly being "unqualified" for president to qualified. 


BodyProSite

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #136 on: March 20, 2010, 12:37:12 PM »
Is bam bam being dishonest??  lol     Is he talking ?   

Dos Equis

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #137 on: March 20, 2010, 12:41:59 PM »
There has not been one truthful thing that has come from Obama since day one. 

Beach, I still have not gotten an answer from one obama voter or supporter as to what Obama did in 143 days in the Senate to make him go from admittedly being "unqualified" for president to qualified. 



Hillary and Biden said the same thing. 

Good luck waiting on your answer. 

Straw Man

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #138 on: March 20, 2010, 12:46:54 PM »
Federal workers (including Stupak and his family) receive healthcare that includes abortion

This healthcare is paid for by US Tax Dollars therefore Stupaks family (and hundreds of thousands of federal workers) have the option to choose abortion and have it paid for by the US Tax Payer

If Stupak really cared about abortion he would clean up his own backyard first rather than telling other citizens that they can't have what he and his family have (and paid for by you and me)

btw - anyone notice how Stupak always has that glazed over, brain dead looks that many fundies also have?

Dos Equis

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #139 on: July 14, 2010, 04:45:42 PM »
Very interested to see whether Obama keeps his word. 

Questions over abortion in new federal health plan
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR (AP)

WASHINGTON — Abortion opponents are raising questions about a critical new insurance program under President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law.

Federal officials say elective abortion is barred under the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan. It offers coverage to people turned down by private insurers because of medical problems, at rates comparable to what the healthy pay.

But at least one state — New Mexico — initially listed elective abortion as a covered benefit, reversing course after The Associated Press inquired on Wednesday.

National Right to Life and other abortion opponents say rules for the program have not been clearly spelled out, and that could open the way for taxpayer-subsidized coverage of elective abortion. Federal law bars paying for abortion with government money, except in cases of rape or incest or to save the mother's life.

"We don't think this is just a problem of vagueness, we see a pattern of the Obama administration trying to expand abortion any time they can get away with it," said Douglas Johnson, legislative director for National Right to Life.

A spokeswoman for the federal Health and Human Services Department said that's totally wrong, and insisted there was no intention of allowing abortion coverage under the new program, also known as PCIP.

"In all our PCIP plans, abortions will not be covered except in the cases of rape, incest or where the life of the mother would be endangered," said Jenny Backus. The department is working on guidance to make those restrictions explicit to states and insurance plans.

Abortion coverage was one of the most difficult issues in last year's epic congressional debate over health care. Democrats were able to muster enough votes to pass the bill in the House only after Obama agreed to sign an executive order affirming longstanding restrictions on taxpayer-funded abortions.

The health overhaul law attempted to strike a compromise. Private plans in new insurance markets opening for business in 2014 can cover abortion, but payment must come from enrollees themselves, not from federal tax credits that will be offered to make premiums more affordable.

However, lawmakers left it to bureaucrats at HHS to write the rules for pre-existing conditions coverage, a $5 billion program entirely subsidized by federal taxpayers. It's intended to serve as a stopgap until 2014, when insurers will no longer be able to deny coverage to people with medical problems.

In the rush to get the program running this summer, many of the details apparently were not made clear. Twenty-nine states and Washington, D.C., are administering their own plans. The federal government is running the program in the remaining 21 states.

Michelle Lujan Grisham, deputy director of the New Mexico Medical Insurance Pool, said the state's contract with HHS stipulated that the plan must follow federal law, but there was no clear-cut mention of abortion coverage.

As a result, New Mexico included elective abortion as a covered benefit, following what it was already doing with its own state health programs.

An Internet site describing the New Mexico plan listed "elective termination of pregnancy" as a covered benefit. The plan would pay 80 percent of the cost of an abortion, after the beneficiary met a $500 annual deductible.

Asked about coverage of elective abortion by the AP on Wednesday, Grisham initially responded that the state intended to follow through with its original plan.

A little later, she called back to say her agency was reversing course. "We are in the process of correcting the package so it will not have elective abortion coverage," said Grisham.

National Right to Life has also raised questions about Pennsylvania's plan. But Rosanne Placey, a spokeswoman for the state insurance department, said the program will not cover elective abortions. "That is not part of the benefit package," she said.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ig2n-N48bvgGAWA-wHlMPQpOdinQD9GV308O5

Soul Crusher

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #140 on: July 14, 2010, 07:55:58 PM »
Stupak should rot in hell for his sell out.  Who believes obama on anything other than the mindless drones. 

Beach - I found the perfect video for Obama supporters.  Check this out.  This is Danny, KC, Blacken, Mons, Andre, Al Doggity, Straw, AE, listeing to Obama.


Danny

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #141 on: July 14, 2010, 08:04:00 PM »
Stupak should rot in hell for his sell out.  Who believes obama on anything other than the mindless drones. 

Beach - I found the perfect video for Obama supporters.  Check this out.  This is Danny, KC, Blacken, Mons, Andre, Al Doggity, Straw, AE, listeing to Obama.



You call us drones only because we have a different point of view. That's fine, at least we're not paranoid about a new world order and concentration camps. ;) How does it feel to live in fear like you do?? Commies are coming ...commies are coming ..........rrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuunnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D It's your choice man ,but you should understand two different opinion doesn't necessarily mean one of them is wrong.
"What we do in life ECHOES in eternity "

Soul Crusher

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #142 on: July 14, 2010, 08:06:16 PM »
No, an opinion is one thing.  Mindlessly believing the Dear Leader when he is proven to be lying is a completely different thing. 

Danny

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #143 on: July 14, 2010, 08:14:50 PM »
No, an opinion is one thing.  Mindlessly believing the Dear Leader when he is proven to be lying is a completely different thing. 

When you say Dear Leader it really sounds funny..... ;D you really dont wanna know what kind of power a real Dear Leader has. trust me.
"What we do in life ECHOES in eternity "

Skip8282

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #144 on: July 14, 2010, 08:17:20 PM »
Federal workers (including Stupak and his family) receive healthcare that includes abortion

This healthcare is paid for by US Tax Dollars therefore Stupaks family (and hundreds of thousands of federal workers) have the option to choose abortion and have it paid for by the US Tax Payer

If Stupak really cared about abortion he would clean up his own backyard first rather than telling other citizens that they can't have what he and his family have (and paid for by you and me)

btw - anyone notice how Stupak always has that glazed over, brain dead looks that many fundies also have?




The problem with that is you can extend it out indefinetely.  Then the government could dictate what everybody at Boeing or Rand or Accenture or Lockheed or any other government contractor could do related to abortion.  Once the money is earned, it's earned.  You have to draw a line somewhere.

I think a much stronger argument is to attack their criticism that the pool of money (from subsidies and premiums) would be too muddy to differentiate if taxpayer dollars are going towards abortions.  I doubt it.  Insurance companies are very good with keeping their money in order and they could easily tell if they are paying out more for abortions then they are bringing in with premiums.  Then, if abortions are cutting into taxpayer subsidies, they could raise premiums.

Skip8282

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #145 on: July 14, 2010, 08:19:27 PM »
How does it feel to live in fear like you do?? Commies are coming ...commies are coming ..........rrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuunnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




You've got to be kidding...


put yourself in my shoes,would you tell if you knew the information you put on the web could possibly affect you directly or your family and put them in a potentially dangerous situation ? I doubt it. My point was that nobody can grasp the reality of a communist regime and how bad it is, the real stuff, unless you lived it. You don't need credibility to make a point like that.  ;)

Danny

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #146 on: July 14, 2010, 08:38:00 PM »


You've got to be kidding...



 Great now I have a fukin stalker. ::)
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #147 on: July 14, 2010, 08:45:28 PM »
When you say Dear Leader it really sounds funny..... ;D you really dont wanna know what kind of power a real Dear Leader has. trust me.

So you are from NK? 

Danny

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #148 on: July 14, 2010, 08:48:45 PM »
So you are from NK? 

Good God....not this shit again. NO. But we had a Dear Leader in my former country and he had absolute power. You can not imagine the level of control this fucker had and what he used it for.  :o
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Is Obama being dishonest about abortion and healthcare reform?
« Reply #149 on: July 14, 2010, 08:52:00 PM »
Good God....not this shit again. NO. But we had a Dear Leader in my former country and he had absolute power. You can not imagine the level of control this fucker had and what he used it for.  :o

So its either Bulgaria, Albania, or maybe Haiti under Papa Doc?