Foreign Aid and Healthcare

[Skip8282]

This question is geared to those in opposition of socialized healthcare.  I'm still on the fence about socializing healthcare, though I seem to be leaning in that direction.

Anyway, I'm just wondering how you reconcile us giving billions in foreign aid, but oppose giving money to our own people for healthcare.  What's the rationale behind your thinking and beliefs?

[Dos Equis]

Depends on the foreign aid.  Also, I see a clear distinction between giving money to another country and giving the government control of a private industry. 

[Skip8282]

Depends on the foreign aid.  Also, I see a clear distinction between giving money to another country and giving the government control of a private industry. 

Any foreign aid.  What difference does it make?  Ok then, would you support a program whereby the government held aside money to give to those in need of healthcare.  Those who currently fall through the cracks.

[Dos Equis]

Any foreign aid.  What difference does it make?  Ok then, would you support a program whereby the government held aside money to give to those in need of healthcare.  Those who currently fall through the cracks.

It makes a lot of difference (at least to me).  For example, I don't have a problem sharing technology with Israel, because they are one of the only allies we have in the Middle East.  I don't have a problem with giving food to countries that have suffered natural disasters.

We already have programs that give tons of money and services to people who need healthcare insurance, but for whatever reason cannot get it. 

But regarding your question, this isn't something I've ever had to reconcile.  Still don't.   

[Skip8282]

It makes a lot of difference (at least to me).  For example, I don't have a problem sharing technology with Israel, because they are one of the only allies we have in the Middle East.  I don't have a problem with giving food to countries that have suffered natural disasters.

We already have programs that give tons of money and services to people who need healthcare insurance, but for whatever reason cannot get it. 

But regarding your question, this isn't something I've ever had to reconcile.  Still don't.  

We don't have programs giving "tons of money and services to people who need healthcare insurance".  If we did, we wouldn't be hearing "tons" of stories about people who go without healthcare.

Food to disaster victims is a good one.  Even though it's food, it's still money our government is giving.  Don't get me wrong, I think it's good we're helping them out.  But you don't have a problem with us giving them money for help, but not giving our own citizens money for help?

What about us giving Bosnia 51 million, Liberia 89 million, and Indonesia 158 million (2006 numbers)?  Are you fine with us giving away all this money, rather than giving it back to our own people to help with healthcare?

[Dos Equis]

We don't have programs giving "tons of money and services to people who need healthcare insurance".  If we did, we wouldn't be hearing "tons" of stories about people who go without healthcare.

Food to disaster victims is a good one.  Even though it's food, it's still money our government is giving.  Don't get me wrong, I think it's good we're helping them out.  But you don't have a problem with us giving them money for help, but not giving our own citizens money for help?

What about us giving Bosnia 51 million, Liberia 89 million, and Indonesia 158 million (2006 numbers)?  Are you fine with us giving away all this money, rather than giving it back to our own people to help with healthcare?

Yes, we do have programs giving tons of money, etc.  They include Medicaid and all of their state equivalents (called QUEST in Hawaii), county and state hospitals that provide free care, local clinics that often provide some free services, and every ER room in America that is required to treat someone who shows up whether they have insurance or not (due to anti-patient dumping laws).  Also, in this state, every employee who works more than 20 hours a week gets free healthcare from his or her employer.  We also provide food stamps and many other benefits to people in need.  There is unemployment compensation, disability compensation, rehab benefits, etc.   

So, it's not an either or proposition.  We already provide billions to care for our own. 

[Skip8282]

Yes, we do have programs giving tons of money, etc.  They include Medicaid and all of their state equivalents (called QUEST in Hawaii), county and state hospitals that provide free care, local clinics that often provide some free services, and every ER room in America that is required to treat someone who shows up whether they have insurance or not (due to anti-patient dumping laws).  Also, in this state, every employee who works more than 20 hours a week gets free healthcare from his or her employer.  We also provide food stamps and many other benefits to people in need.  There is unemployment compensation, disability compensation, rehab benefits, etc.  

So, it's not an either or proposition.  We already provide billions to care for our own. 

I'm not familiar with Quest, but there's a lot Medicaid won't provide.  And being poor does not garuanty acceptance into Medicaid, it's formula based with income being one factor. 

And if you're using the ER care as justification, then we may as well socialize the healthcare system because our tax dollars are paying for that.  In fact, wouldn't it be cheaper to provide people with preventitive care rather than wait until they get so sick that they need to go to the ER?

What about the people who fall through the cracks?  What about lower and middle class people whose healthcare bills cause them to file bankruptcy?  What about things insurance companies won't cover?  Would you be OK diverting those foreign aid dollars to those people?

[Dos Equis]

I'm not familiar with Quest, but there's a lot Medicaid won't provide.  And being poor does not garuanty acceptance into Medicaid, it's formula based with income being one factor. 

And if you're using the ER care as justification, then we may as well socialize the healthcare system because our tax dollars are paying for that.  In fact, wouldn't it be cheaper to provide people with preventitive care rather than wait until they get so sick that they need to go to the ER?

What about the people who fall through the cracks?  What about lower and middle class people whose healthcare bills cause them to file bankruptcy?  What about things insurance companies won't cover?  Would you be OK diverting those foreign aid dollars to those people?

I would be okay with diverting some foreign aid to help some of the people who fall through the numerous safety nets, but that's just not reality.  That's not how the federal government works.  Whatever money is "saved" from one program goes back in the pot and gets spent on pork barrel projects. 

[Skip8282]

I would be okay with diverting some foreign aid to help some of the people who fall through the numerous safety nets, but that's just not reality.  That's not how the federal government works.  Whatever money is "saved" from one program goes back in the pot and gets spent on pork barrel projects. 

We can both agree about the government's misappropriation of funds.  I just have a problem with the morality of giving Indonesia 158 million dollars while Americans are filing bankruptcy because their medical bills are overwhelming.

[Dos Equis]

We can both agree about the government's misappropriation of funds.  I just have a problem with the morality of giving Indonesia 158 million dollars while Americans are filing bankruptcy because their medical bills are overwhelming.

Yeah.  Can't really argue with you. 

[Skip8282]

Yeah.  Can't really argue with you. 

Not looking for an argument.  Just trying to understand other viewpoints. 

[Dos Equis]

Not looking for an argument.  Just trying to understand other viewpoints. 

Yeah I know.  Wasn't trying to argue with you.  Very good of you to try and have a dialogue.   

[IFBBwannaB]

We can both agree about the government's misappropriation of funds.  I just have a problem with the morality of giving Indonesia 158 million dollars while Americans are filing bankruptcy because their medical bills are overwhelming.

The point that you're missing is that it's the government job to form political ties (or commercial)  with other countries, don't forget that most of the money that you think it's being given away is actually loans, furthermore the money isn't given for no reason.
There are plenty of poor people that need help in the world yet the government don't help them all, just look at Africa.The ones that receive the money have a political/financial value in the eyes of the government.

On the other hand, it's not the government job to provide for healthcare, I won't mind some regulation and oversight and a government should always keep an eye on what's going on in it's on backyard but complete takeover is unnecessary, maybe a reform but not a complete Marxist overtaking.

[Skip8282]

The point that you're missing is that it's the government job to form political ties (or commercial)  with other countries, don't forget that most of the money that you think it's being given away is actually loans, furthermore the money isn't given for no reason.
There are plenty of poor people that need help in the world yet the government don't help them all, just look at Africa.The ones that receive the money have a political/financial value in the eyes of the government.

On the other hand, it's not the government job to provide for healthcare, I won't mind some regulation and oversight and a government should always keep an eye on what's going on in it's on backyard but complete takeover is unnecessary, maybe a reform but not a complete Marxist overtaking.

There's no doubt that we have political motivations when we give or loan, but they're often blatantly misplaced.  Money to the Palestinians going to Arafat, money to help victims of natural disasters essentially going to the military juntas.  To me, it just seems a better investment to help our own citizens first, then help others.

We seem to all agree that reform needs to take place, my problem is that the government keeps sitting on it's ass when the Republicans are running the show, and now people want to cry foul when the Democrats try to do something about it.

Even now, I've yet to hear a viable alternative bill being proposed by the Republicans.  A lot of the Republican ideas are great ideas, but great ideas don't do squat without action.

Deeds above words...

[IFBBwannaB]

There's no doubt that we have political motivations when we give or loan, but they're often blatantly misplaced.  Money to the Palestinians going to Arafat, money to help victims of natural disasters essentially going to the military juntas.  To me, it just seems a better investment to help our own citizens first, then help others.

We seem to all agree that reform needs to take place, my problem is that the government keeps sitting on it's ass when the Republicans are running the show, and now people want to cry foul when the Democrats try to do something about it.

Even now, I've yet to hear a viable alternative bill being proposed by the Republicans.  A lot of the Republican ideas are great ideas, but great ideas don't do squat without action.

Deeds above words...

Sometimes not acting and waiting for a better time and a better solution is the smarter thing to do.
It seems to me that this can be said to almost any Obama move, the man is simply a disgrace , I really hope that in the end we will find out that he really wans't an American since he doesn't deserve to be called on.

[tonymctones]

the govt misappropriates money left and right(no pun intended) all the time skip

Like beach said there are a lot of options out there for ppl without insurance we have the gold card here in texas probably similar to quest in hawaii.

The thing is skip you assume these ppl without insurance are helpless some of them maybe but alot are not helpless simply dont choose to use one of the many options available to them.

there isnt any need to reconcile i see your point but there are tons of govt spending I would rather do without foreign aid helps the US as a whole

[Skip8282]

The thing is skip you assume these ppl without insurance are helpless some of them maybe but alot are not helpless simply dont choose to use one of the many options available to them.

there isnt any need to reconcile i see your point but there are tons of govt spending I would rather do without foreign aid helps the US as a whole

Nope.  I don't assume that at all.  In fact, for many years I went without insurance because I didn't feel the need and didn't want to spend the money.  If you don't want it, don't take it.

My concern is for the people who have to file bankruptcy over medical bills, for those where an experimental treatment may save their life, for those who fall through the cracks from time to time, for those 40% who were denied by Pacificare (at least the legit ones, I'm sure they get a fair number of bullshit claims).

These are the people I would rather see our foreign aid dollars spent on.

[tonymctones]

Nope.  I don't assume that at all.  In fact, for many years I went without insurance because I didn't feel the need and didn't want to spend the money.  If you don't want it, don't take it.

My concern is for the people who have to file bankruptcy over medical bills, for those where an experimental treatment may save their life, for those who fall through the cracks from time to time, for those 40% who were denied by Pacificare (at least the legit ones, I'm sure they get a fair number of bullshit claims).

These are the people I would rather see our foreign aid dollars spent on.

I agree skip here the thing though none of those problems you mentioned require a govt run option. We can put an end to pre-existing conditions etc...denied coverage etc...without a govt option so lets do that first and then see where the dust settles after that.