Author Topic: steroids to burn fat  (Read 2847 times)

beard

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steroids to burn fat
« on: September 08, 2009, 01:18:00 PM »
What steroids are good for burning fat?

4thAD

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 01:20:31 PM »
steroids don't burn fat, your diet does. Tren, winny, are good while dieting, but really you can run anything while dieting.

tstmaniac

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 01:25:28 PM »
If you have very low test levels causing excess body fat then yes steroids would help burn some fat otherwise diet, cardio, and fatburners are the key to getting shredded

dexterJ

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 01:38:55 PM »
first diet..then AAS..also cardio

tbombz

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 06:34:18 PM »
all of them, basically. tren and anavar are probably the best though

Luv2Hurt

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2009, 06:36:53 PM »
Estrogen retains fat and water.

tbombz

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 06:41:09 PM »
Estrogen retains fat and water.
estrogen retains  water. not fat. it actually helps the body to use fat. and its an appetite supressant.


Estrogen as a Lipolytic Hormone

Estrogen as an Anorectic Hormone

Estrogen Promotes Fat Burning During Exercise

References
1) Price TM, O'Brien SN, Welter BH, George R, Anandjiwala J, Kilgore M. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1998 Jan;178(1 Pt 1):101-7

2) Bjorntorp P. Hum Reprod 1997 Oct;12 Suppl 1:21-5

3) Ramirez ME, McMurry MP, Wiebke GA, Felten KJ, Ren K, Meikle AW, Iverius PH Metabolism 1997 Feb;46(2):179-85

4) Zmuda JM, Fahrenbach MC, Younkin BT, Bausserman LL, Terry RB, Catlin DH, Thompson PD. Metabolism 1993 Apr;42(4):446-50

5) Tomita T, Yonekura I, Okada T, Hayashi E Horm Metab Res 1984 Oct;16(10):525-8

6) Heine PA, Taylor JA, Iwamoto GA, Lubahn DB, Cooke PS. Increased adipose tissue in male and female estrogen receptor-alpha knockout mice. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2000 Nov 7;97(23):12729-34

7) Mystkowski P, Seeley RJ, Hahn TM, Baskin DG, Havel PJ, Matsumoto AM, Wilkinson CW, Peacock-Kinzig K, Blake KA, Schwartz MW. J Neurosci 2000 Nov 15;20(22):8637-42

8) Hamadeh MJ, Devries MC, Tarnopolsky MA. Estrogen supplementation reduces whole body leucine and carbohydrate oxidation and increases lipid oxidation in men during endurance exercise. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Mar 8

9) Mora-Rodriguez R, Hodgkinson BJ, Byerley LO, Coyle EF. Effects of beta-adrenergic receptor stimulation and blockade on substrate metabolism during submaximal exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 May;280(5):E752-60.

10) Schneider J, Huh MM, Bradlow HL, Fishman J. Antiestrogen action of 2-hydroxyestrone on MCF-7 human breast cancer cells. J Biol Chem. 1984 Apr 25;259(8):4840-5

11) Dalessandri KM, Firestone GL, Fitch MD, Bradlow HL, Bjeldanes LF. Pilot study: effect of 3,3'-diindolylmethane supplements on urinary hormone metabolites in postmenopausal women with a history of early-stage breast cancer. Nutr Cancer. 2004;50(2):161-7.

12) Chen I, McDougal A, Wang F, Safe S. Aryl hydrocarbon receptor-mediated antiestrogenic and antitumorigenic activity of diindolylmethane. Carcinogenesis. 1998 Sep;19(9):1631-9.

13) Sarkar FH, Li Y. Indole-3-carbinol and prostate cancer. J Nutr. 2004 Dec;134(12 Suppl):3493S-3498S.

14) Le HT, Schaldach CM, Firestone GL, Bjeldanes LF. Plant-derived 3,3'-Diindolylmethane is a strong androgen antagonist in human prostate cancer cells. J Biol Chem. 2003 Jun 6;278(23):21136-45.

15) Chen I, McDougal A, Wang F, Safe S. Aryl hydrocarbon receptor-mediated antiestrogenic and antitumorigenic activity of diindolylmethane. Carcinogenesis. 1998 Sep;19(9):1631-9.

16) Wormke M, Stoner M, Saville B, Walker K, Abdelrahim M, Burghardt R, Safe S. The aryl hydrocarbon receptor mediates degradation of estrogen receptor alpha through activation of proteasomes. Mol Cell Biol. 2003 Mar;23(6):1843-55.

17) Franks S, MacLusky NJ, Naish SJ, Naftolin F. Actions of catechol oestrogens on concentrations of serum luteinizing hormone in the adult castrated rat: various effects of 4-hydroxyoestradiol and 2-hydroxyoestradiol. J Endocrinol. 1981 May;89(2):289-95.

18) Avvakumov GV, Grishkovskaya I, Muller YA, Hammond GL. Crystal structure of human sex hormone-binding globulin in complex with 2-methoxyestradiol reveals the molecular basis for high affinity interactions with C-2 derivatives of estradiol. J Biol Chem. 2002 Nov 22;277(47):45219-25

19) Cutolo M, Sulli A, Capellino S, Villaggio B, Montagna P, Seriolo B, Straub RH Sex hormones influence on the immune system: basic and clinical aspects in autoimmunity. Lupus. 2004;13(9):635-8.

20) Cutolo M, Villaggio B, Seriolo B, Montagna P, Capellino S, Straub RH, Sulli A. Synovial fluid estrogens in rheumatoid arthritis. Autoimmun Rev. 2004 Mar;3(3):193-8.

21) Teepker M, Anthes N, Krieg JC, Vedder H 2-OH-estradiol, an endogenous hormone with neuroprotective functions. J Psychiatr Res. 2003 Nov-Dec;37(6):517-23.

22) Leong H, Riby JE, Firestone GL, Bjeldanes LF. Potent ligand-independent estrogen receptor activation by 3,3'-diindolylmethane is mediated by cross talk between the protein kinase A and mitogen-activated protein kinase signaling pathways. Mol Endocrinol. 2004 Feb;18(2):291-302.

23) Leibelt DA, Hedstrom OR, Fischer KA, Pereira CB, Williams DE. Evaluation of chronic dietary exposure to indole-3-carbinol and absorption-enhanced 3,3'-diindolylmethane in sprague-dawley rats. Toxicol Sci. 2003 Jul;74(1):10-21

24) Elbers JM, Asscheman H, Seidell JC, Gooren LJ. Effects of sex steroid hormones on regional fat depots as assessed by magnetic resonance imaging in transsexuals. Am J Physiol. 1999 Feb;276(2 Pt 1):E317-25.

25) Bouloumie A, Valet P, Dauzats M, Lafontan M, Saulnier-Blache JS. In vivo upregulation of adipocyte alpha 2-adrenoceptors by androgens is consequence of direct action on fat cells. Am J Physiol. 1994 Oct;267(4 Pt 1):C926-31.




link to full article=



http://www.mindandmuscle.net/node/491

Luv2Hurt

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 06:49:44 PM »

estrogen retains  water. not fat. it actually helps the body to use fat. and its an appetite supressant.


Estrogen as a Lipolytic Hormone

Estrogen as an Anorectic Hormone

Estrogen Promotes Fat Burning During Exercise

References
1) Price TM, O'Brien SN, Welter BH, George R, Anandjiwala J, Kilgore M. Am J Obstet Gynecol 1998 Jan;178(1 Pt 1):101-7

2) Bjorntorp P. Hum Reprod 1997 Oct;12 Suppl 1:21-5

3) Ramirez ME, McMurry MP, Wiebke GA, Felten KJ, Ren K, Meikle AW, Iverius PH Metabolism 1997 Feb;46(2):179-85

4) Zmuda JM, Fahrenbach MC, Younkin BT, Bausserman LL, Terry RB, Catlin DH, Thompson PD. Metabolism 1993 Apr;42(4):446-50

5) Tomita T, Yonekura I, Okada T, Hayashi E Horm Metab Res 1984 Oct;16(10):525-8

6) Heine PA, Taylor JA, Iwamoto GA, Lubahn DB, Cooke PS. Increased adipose tissue in male and female estrogen receptor-alpha knockout mice. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2000 Nov 7;97(23):12729-34

7) Mystkowski P, Seeley RJ, Hahn TM, Baskin DG, Havel PJ, Matsumoto AM, Wilkinson CW, Peacock-Kinzig K, Blake KA, Schwartz MW. J Neurosci 2000 Nov 15;20(22):8637-42

8) Hamadeh MJ, Devries MC, Tarnopolsky MA. Estrogen supplementation reduces whole body leucine and carbohydrate oxidation and increases lipid oxidation in men during endurance exercise. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Mar 8

9) Mora-Rodriguez R, Hodgkinson BJ, Byerley LO, Coyle EF. Effects of beta-adrenergic receptor stimulation and blockade on substrate metabolism during submaximal exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 May;280(5):E752-60.

10) Schneider J, Huh MM, Bradlow HL, Fishman J. Antiestrogen action of 2-hydroxyestrone on MCF-7 human breast cancer cells. J Biol Chem. 1984 Apr 25;259(8):4840-5

11) Dalessandri KM, Firestone GL, Fitch MD, Bradlow HL, Bjeldanes LF. Pilot study: effect of 3,3'-diindolylmethane supplements on urinary hormone metabolites in postmenopausal women with a history of early-stage breast cancer. Nutr Cancer. 2004;50(2):161-7.

12) Chen I, McDougal A, Wang F, Safe S. Aryl hydrocarbon receptor-mediated antiestrogenic and antitumorigenic activity of diindolylmethane. Carcinogenesis. 1998 Sep;19(9):1631-9.

13) Sarkar FH, Li Y. Indole-3-carbinol and prostate cancer. J Nutr. 2004 Dec;134(12 Suppl):3493S-3498S.

14) Le HT, Schaldach CM, Firestone GL, Bjeldanes LF. Plant-derived 3,3'-Diindolylmethane is a strong androgen antagonist in human prostate cancer cells. J Biol Chem. 2003 Jun 6;278(23):21136-45.

15) Chen I, McDougal A, Wang F, Safe S. Aryl hydrocarbon receptor-mediated antiestrogenic and antitumorigenic activity of diindolylmethane. Carcinogenesis. 1998 Sep;19(9):1631-9.

16) Wormke M, Stoner M, Saville B, Walker K, Abdelrahim M, Burghardt R, Safe S. The aryl hydrocarbon receptor mediates degradation of estrogen receptor alpha through activation of proteasomes. Mol Cell Biol. 2003 Mar;23(6):1843-55.

17) Franks S, MacLusky NJ, Naish SJ, Naftolin F. Actions of catechol oestrogens on concentrations of serum luteinizing hormone in the adult castrated rat: various effects of 4-hydroxyoestradiol and 2-hydroxyoestradiol. J Endocrinol. 1981 May;89(2):289-95.

18) Avvakumov GV, Grishkovskaya I, Muller YA, Hammond GL. Crystal structure of human sex hormone-binding globulin in complex with 2-methoxyestradiol reveals the molecular basis for high affinity interactions with C-2 derivatives of estradiol. J Biol Chem. 2002 Nov 22;277(47):45219-25

19) Cutolo M, Sulli A, Capellino S, Villaggio B, Montagna P, Seriolo B, Straub RH Sex hormones influence on the immune system: basic and clinical aspects in autoimmunity. Lupus. 2004;13(9):635-8.

20) Cutolo M, Villaggio B, Seriolo B, Montagna P, Capellino S, Straub RH, Sulli A. Synovial fluid estrogens in rheumatoid arthritis. Autoimmun Rev. 2004 Mar;3(3):193-8.

21) Teepker M, Anthes N, Krieg JC, Vedder H 2-OH-estradiol, an endogenous hormone with neuroprotective functions. J Psychiatr Res. 2003 Nov-Dec;37(6):517-23.

22) Leong H, Riby JE, Firestone GL, Bjeldanes LF. Potent ligand-independent estrogen receptor activation by 3,3'-diindolylmethane is mediated by cross talk between the protein kinase A and mitogen-activated protein kinase signaling pathways. Mol Endocrinol. 2004 Feb;18(2):291-302.

23) Leibelt DA, Hedstrom OR, Fischer KA, Pereira CB, Williams DE. Evaluation of chronic dietary exposure to indole-3-carbinol and absorption-enhanced 3,3'-diindolylmethane in sprague-dawley rats. Toxicol Sci. 2003 Jul;74(1):10-21

24) Elbers JM, Asscheman H, Seidell JC, Gooren LJ. Effects of sex steroid hormones on regional fat depots as assessed by magnetic resonance imaging in transsexuals. Am J Physiol. 1999 Feb;276(2 Pt 1):E317-25.

25) Bouloumie A, Valet P, Dauzats M, Lafontan M, Saulnier-Blache JS. In vivo upregulation of adipocyte alpha 2-adrenoceptors by androgens is consequence of direct action on fat cells. Am J Physiol. 1994 Oct;267(4 Pt 1):C926-31.




link to full article=



http://www.mindandmuscle.net/node/491


Thank you for the post very informative.

Thing is though those studies are all on men with normal test levels and normal estogen levels IE not using steroids.  Test levels while on gear are way more than normal as we know.  Therefore with out an AI excessive aromatase will produce very high for a male even for a female for that matter estrogen levels.  Thats when the tide turns and in specific areas chest nipple area start to hold fat and gyno becomes present.  other typical E fat/water holding areas butt hips and stomach.

4thAD

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2009, 07:05:28 PM »

Thank you for the post very informative.

Thing is though those studies are all on men with normal test levels and normal estogen levels IE not using steroids.  Test levels while on gear are way more than normal as we know.  Therefore with out an AI excessive aromatase will produce very high for a male even for a female for that matter estrogen levels.  Thats when the tide turns and in specific areas chest nipple area start to hold fat and gyno becomes present.  other typical E fat/water holding areas butt hips and stomach.

Agreed, everyone who actually has real world experience knows that real life can be completely different than studies.

WillGrant

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2009, 08:50:33 PM »
all of them, basically. tren and anavar are probably the best though
Agree , primo is also good at maintaining lean mass while dieting to if you can afford it.

If your diet is shit though then it will show in your results.

If I had the funds Id run
Test
tren
primo
var
hgh
with extra fat burners chucked in to get shredded and maintain as much muscle as possible but alas a stack like that for me is a dream at present. :'(

Cal_Lifter

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2009, 09:52:46 PM »
I read a study about anavar burning fat - most specifically in the stomach area. But who knows.

Yeah I have bigger love handles and gut from being on test e...although my i have been eating a lot more and have cut down on cardio.

It's really hard to pinpoint what can cause what because usually there are too many confounding variables.


Do Work.

claymore

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2009, 02:15:01 AM »
What steroids are good for burning fat?

What's your diet and training like ??

tbombz

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2009, 02:13:35 PM »

Thank you for the post very informative.

Thing is though those studies are all on men with normal test levels and normal estogen levels IE not using steroids.  Test levels while on gear are way more than normal as we know.  Therefore with out an AI excessive aromatase will produce very high for a male even for a female for that matter estrogen levels.  Thats when the tide turns and in specific areas chest nipple area start to hold fat and gyno becomes present.  other typical E fat/water holding areas butt hips and stomach.
estrogen does effect fat pattern distribution. like you mentioned, fat will move into "estrogen fat" (female fat pattern) areas...likes the chest and underarms for example. 

beard

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2009, 03:00:54 PM »
Thanks for the replies ... I think I'll stick with testo.

badfish51581

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2009, 03:41:10 PM »
Here's a few about anavar.

Quote
Effects of androgen therapy on adipose tissue and metabolism in older men.
Schroeder ET, Zheng L, Ong MD, Martinez C, Flores C, Stewart Y, Azen C, Sattler FR.

Department of Medicine and Division of Infectious Diseases, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90033, USA.

We investigated the effects of oxandrolone on regional fat compartments and markers of metabolism. Thirty-two 60- to 87-yr-old men (body mass index, 28.1 +/- 3.4 kg/m(2)) were randomized to oxandrolone (20 mg/d; n = 20) or matching placebo (n = 12) treatment for 12 wk. Oxandrolone reduced total (-1.8 +/- 1.0 kg; P < 0.001), trunk (-1.2 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001), and appendicular (-0.6 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001) fat, as determined by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry. The changes in total and trunk fat were greater (P < 0.001) than the changes with placebo. By magnetic resonance imaging, visceral adipose tissue decreased (-20.9 +/- 12 cm(2); P < 0.001), abdominal sc adipose tissue (SAT) declined (-10.7 +/- 12.1 cm(2); P = 0.043), the ratio VAT/SAT declined from 0.57 +/- 0.23 to 0.49 +/- 0.19 (P = 0.002), and proximal and distal thigh SC fat declined [-8.3 +/- 6.7 cm(2) (P < 0.001) and -2.2 +/- 3.0 kg (P = 0.004), respectively]. Changes in proximal and distal thigh SC fat with oxandrolone were different than with placebo (P = 0.018 and P = 0.059). A marker of insulin sensitivity (quantitative insulin sensitivity check index) improved with oxandrolone by 0.0041 +/- 0.0071 (P = 0.018) at study wk 12. Changes in total fat, abdominal SAT, and proximal extremity SC fat were correlated with changes in fasting insulin from baseline to study wk 12 (r >or= 0.45; P < 0.05). Losses of total fat and SAT were greater in men with baseline testosterone of 10.4 nmol/liter or less (<or= 300 ng/dl) than in those with higher levels [-2.5 +/- 1.1 vs. -1.5 +/- 0.8 kg (P = 0.036) and -24.1 +/- 14.3 vs. -2.9 +/- 21.3 cm(2) (P = 0.03), respectively]. Twelve weeks after discontinuing oxandrolone, 83% of the reductions in total, trunk, and extremity fat by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry scanning were sustained (P < 0.02). Androgen therapy, therefore, produced significant and durable reductions in regional abdominal and peripheral adipose tissue that were associated with improvements in estimates of insulin sensitivity. However, high-density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased by -0.49 +/- 0.21 mmol/liter and directly measured low-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.57 +/- 0.67 mmol/liter and non-high-density lipoprotein cholesterol increased by 0.54 +/- 0.97 mmol/liter (P < 0.03 for each) during treatment with oxandrolone; these changes were largely reversible. Thus, therapy with an androgen that does not adversely affect lipids may be beneficial for some components of the metabolic syndrome in overweight older men with low testosterone levels.


Quote
Treatment with oxandrolone and the durability of effects in older men.
Schroeder ET, Zheng L, Yarasheski KE, Qian D, Stewart Y, Flores C, Martinez C, Terk M, Sattler FR.

Department of Medicine, Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles 90033, USA.

We investigated the effects of the anabolic androgen, oxandrolone, on lean body mass (LBM), muscle size, fat, and maximum voluntary muscle strength, and we determined the durability of effects after treatment was stopped. Thirty-two healthy 60- to 87-yr-old men were randomized to receive 20 mg oxandrolone/day (n = 20) or placebo (n = 12) for 12 wk. Body composition [dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), magnetic resonance imaging, and (2)H(2)O dilution] and muscle strength [1 repetition maximum (1 RM)] were evaluated at baseline and after 12 wk of treatment; body composition (DEXA) and 1-RM strength were then assessed 12 wk after treatment was discontinued (week 24). At week 12, oxandrolone increased LBM by 3.0 +/- 1.5 kg (P < 0.001), total body water by 2.9 +/- 3.7 kg (P = 0.002), and proximal thigh muscle area by 12.4 +/- 8.4 cm(2) (P < 0.001); these increases were greater (P < 0.003) than in the placebo group. Oxandrolone increased 1-RM strength for leg press by 6.7 +/- 6.4% (P < 0.001), leg flexion by 7.0 +/- 7.8% (P < 0.001), chest press by 9.3 +/- 6.7% (P < 0.001), and latissimus pull-down exercises by 5.1 +/- 9.1% (P = 0.02); these increases were greater than placebo. Oxandrolone reduced total (-1.9 +/- 1.0 kg) and trunk fat (-1.3 +/- 0.6 kg; P < 0.001), and these decreases were greater (P < 0.001) than placebo. Twelve weeks after oxandrolone was discontinued (week 24), the increments in LBM and muscle strength were no longer different from baseline (P > 0.15). However, the decreases in total and trunk fat were sustained (-1.5 +/- 1.8, P = 0.001 and -1.0 +/- 1.1 kg, P < 0.001, respectively). Thus oxandrolone induced short-term improvements in LBM, muscle area, and strength, while reducing whole body and trunk adiposity. Anabolic improvements were lost 12 wk after discontinuing oxandrolone, whereas improvements in fat mass were largely sustained.


Quote
Oral anabolic steroid treatment, but not parenteral androgen treatment, decreases abdominal fat in obese, older men.
Lovejoy JC, Bray GA, Greeson CS, Klemperer M, Morris J, Partington C, Tulley R.

Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70808-4124, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the effects of testosterone enanthate (TE), anabolic steroid (AS) or placebo (PL) on regional fat distribution and health risk factors in obese middle-aged men undergoing weight loss by dietary means. DESIGN: Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, carried out for 9 months with primary assessments at 3 month intervals. Due to adverse blood lipid changes, the AS group was switched from oral oxandrolone (ASOX) to parenteral nandrolone decaoate (ASND) after the 3 month assessment point. SUBJECTS: Thirty healthy, obese men, aged 40-60 years, with serum testosterone (T) levels in the low-normal range (2-5 ng/mL). MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Abdominal fat distribution and thigh muscle volume by CT scan, body composition by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DEXA), insulin sensitivity by the Minimal Model method, blood lipids, blood chemistry, blood pressure, thyroid hormones and urological parameters. RESULTS: After 3 months, there was a significantly greater decrease in subcutaneous (SQ) abdominal fat in the ASOX group compared to the TE and PL groups although body weight changes did not differ by treatment group. There was also a tendency for the ASOX group to exhibit greater losses in visceral fat, and the absolute level of visceral fat in this group was significantly lower at 3 months than in the TE and PL groups. There were significant main effects of treatment at 3 months on serum T and free T (increased in the TE group and decreased in the ASOX group) and on thyroid hormone parameters (T4 and T3 resin uptake significantly decreased in the ASOX group compared with the other two groups). There was a significant decrease in HDL-C, and increase in LDL-C in the ASOX group, which led to their being switched to the parenteral nandrolone decanoate (ASND) after 3 months. ASND had opposite effects on visceral fat from ASOX, producing a significant increase from 3 to 9 months while continuing to decrease SQ abdominal fat. ASND treatment also decreased thigh muscle area, while ASOX treatment increased high muscle. ASND reversed the effects of ASOX on lipoproteins and thyroid hormones. The previously reported effect of T to decrease visceral fat was not observed, in fact, visceral fat in the TE group increased slightly from 3 to 9 months, although SQ fat continued to decrease. Neither TE nor AS treatment resulted in any change in urologic parameters. CONCLUSIONS: Oral oxandrolone decreased SQ abdominal fat more than TE or weight loss alone and also tended to produce favorable changes in visceral fat. TE and ASND injections given every 2 weeks had similar effects to weight loss alone on regional body fat. Most of the beneficial effects observed on metabolic and cardiovascular risk factors were due to weight loss per se. These results suggest that SQ and visceral abdominal fat can be independently modulated by androgens and that at least some anabolic steroids are capable of influencing abdominal fat.

bigjoered

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Re: steroids to burn fat
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2009, 07:31:24 AM »
What about DNP I hear it can melt off the flabb pretty quick