Author Topic: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.  (Read 738 times)

Soul Crusher

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Thoughts on the President's "Health Care" Speech. I noticed three new things.
Posted by Laelth in General Discussion
Thu Sep 10th 2009, 12:02 AM


My expectations were not high for the President's speech today on health care. I have argued for some time that Obama blew it by initially advocating a weak, complicated, hard-to-sell, and hard-to-understand plan. Of course the local cheer-leaders explained that Obama hadn't announced any plan yet, that five committees were working on different bills, and that the President wasn't ultimately responsible for any of them. If this speech did anything, it put that argument to rest. This is now Obama's plan. He owned it, he advocated it to Congress and the American people, and he laid out some specific policy positions for which he can now be held accountable.

It was a beautiful speech, of course. I do not deny that Obama is a brilliant orator, but I am more interested in the substance of the speech than its manner of delivery. On that score, let me tell you what I heard.

In his speech, the President recounted the problems with the current system. I heard nothing new there. We all know that the health insurance industry is motivated by profit and not the best interests of the American people. We know that insurance costs are skyrocketing. We know that the current system can not be sustained indefinitely. We know that change is needed. The President covered all of that.

The President also laid out, once again, the three insurance industry practices that he wanted to eliminate (pre-existing condition exclusions, rescission, and lifetime caps). He explained that his plan would eliminate all of those. Fine. Nothing new there.

He discussed the Public Option. He argued for it, and that was a relief, but he said it would be small. This is a problem. Either he was lying (because he believes it will be big, and it will need to be big to actually drive down insurance costs and "keep the insurance companies honest"), or he was telling the truth (in which case the Public Option will be meaningless because it won't be big enough to provide real competition). I have argued, and still believe, that a weak public option will prove that government doesn't work, and that enacting a weak public option would be worse than doing nothing. Ultimately, I hope the President was lying and that he believes the Public Option will be big and will actually do some good.

The President also said that he intends to be the last President to tackle the issue of health care. This comment stunned me. Really? Does he mean we will have a single payer system by 2016? Because we all know that this debate will not end until we have a single-payer system. Ultimately, I do not believe that Obama intends to enact single-payer before 2016. I wrote off this comment as flashy, but not meaningful, rhetoric. He's a politician. I can cut him some slack on this score, but he did raise my eyebrows with that comment.

I give the President credit for actually admitting that his plan will force everyone in the United States to buy health insurance. That took courage, even though it's not new (all five bills seriously under consideration in Congress contain the individual mandate), and even though I think this is a terrible idea. At least the President was willing to "own" it. Then, after explaining that everyone would have to buy it, he explained why, and it was at that point that I blew my top. Obama basically blamed the uninsured for the high cost of the insurance that those who have it have to pay. He even put a dollar figure on the cost increase that's attributable to those who lack insurance. I was astounded that the President, basically, resorted to Republican rhetoric and blamed the victims of this failed health care system for its failure. That was new. That was not good.

The second new thing I noticed was this. Whereas HR 3200 calls for subsidies for those who can not afford the mandated insurance, President Obama referred specifically to tax credits. Yes, tax credits, instead of subsidies, for those who can not afford insurance. This is new, and this is much, much worse than what the House proposed in HR 3200.

Finally, the third new proposal I heard was this. Obama threw a bone at the Republicans by promising to move forward on tort reform. This was also new, and this is both useless as a bargaining tool with Republicans who will continue to obstruct and harmful to the American people who are injured through malpractice. I simply do not understand what Obama hoped to accomplish with this offer, but it is doomed to fail, and it is an attack on one of the Democratic Party's most loyal constituencies--the Plaintiff's bar.

Other than the three things I listed above, this speech was more of the same. Very little was new, and what was new, in my opinion, was worse than what the House originally proposed in HR 3200. Many here are celebrating today. The President's a great speaker, but I am not at all pleased with the actual proposal he is now advocating. I suppose it could have been worse. He could have pushed for co-ops, but he did not. All the same, I hoped for much, much better.

________________________ ________________________ ______

What a mess.  Now everyone is pissed off. 

240 is Back

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2009, 10:16:24 AM »
"Posted by Laelth in General Discussion"

LMAO>..........

Do you quote DU members when you disagree with them as well?

I love it when lib bloggers are suddenly reliable sources of info, when they make your point.


Besides, you declared health care issue dead weeks ago, and you claimed victory.  Why still fighting the fight?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2009, 10:21:02 AM »
I posted this to show how everyone who actually pays attention to what is going on hates it! 

Yes they are 180% different from my viewpoint, but he still has some good points nonetheless.

BTW - 240 - are you Jewish? 

240 is Back

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2009, 10:35:29 AM »
I posted this to show how everyone who actually pays attention to what is going on hates it! 

Yes they are 180% different from my viewpoint, but he still has some good points nonetheless.

BTW - 240 - are you Jewish? 

???  Weird Q there.

I do enjoy reading free republic.  The bloogers there sometimes make good points that could actually be more effective against Obama than "Rev Wright this, Van Jones that!" that FOX news enjoys so much.

tonymctones

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2009, 10:36:37 AM »
"Posted by Laelth in General Discussion"

LMAO>..........

Do you quote DU members when you disagree with them as well?

I love it when lib bloggers are suddenly reliable sources of info, when they make your point.

Besides, you declared health care issue dead weeks ago, and you claimed victory.  Why still fighting the fight?
pot meet kettle...

recorded the post game and the O Factor and NO mention of him at all.

(from another board)

COMMENT
they didn't immediately give him his own show!?  


COMMENT

They'll be doing a "Profiles in Courage: Joe Wilson" special soon
 with Glenn Beck as host.  

to bad FOX did cover it and oreilly wasnt even on last night so how could he have covered it?

LOL self ownage 240 your melting all over the place take a break hoss.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2009, 10:36:50 AM »
???  Weird Q there.

I do enjoy reading free republic.  The bloogers there sometimes make good points that could actually be more effective against Obama than "Rev Wright this, Van Jones that!" that FOX news enjoys so much.

The reason I asked if you are Jewish is because any time anyone asks you a question you never respond with an answer, but another question.  

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 10:43:47 AM »
The reason I asked if you are Jewish is because any time anyone asks you a question you never respond with an answer, but another question.  

This is some racist shit here man.

Besides, 240 is too stupid and poor  to be an American-Jew  ;D.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2009, 10:55:33 AM »
This is some racist shit here man.

Besides, 240 is too stupid and poor  to be an American-Jew  ;D.



Why?  Every is that racist?  My GF is Jewish and they teach from a young age to always answer a question with another question.  Its not racist, but the teachings.  i have sat through a lot of seders  with all the questions and all that stuff.   

tonymctones

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2009, 10:57:28 AM »
The reason I asked if you are Jewish is because any time anyone asks you a question you never respond with an answer, but another question.  
LOL straw man does the same thing but i guess he might just be trying to live up to his name

IFBBwannaB

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2009, 11:26:37 AM »
Why?  Every is that racist?  My GF is Jewish and they teach from a young age to always answer a question with another question.  Its not racist, but the teachings.  i have sat through a lot of seders  with all the questions and all that stuff.   

I assure you that I know plenty of Jews and this is one racist comment, your explanation is too.

Based on your interpretation of your GF family conversation you deduct a conclusion on the whole Jewish community? WTF man?!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2009, 11:31:13 AM »
I assure you that I know plenty of Jews and this is one racist comment, your explanation is too.

Based on your interpretation of your GF family conversation you deduct a conclusion on the whole Jewish community? WTF man?!


Bro - one of my best friends is Jewish, my GF is Jewish, and they tell me that they engage in socratic method argumentation as a matter of teachings and study.  This is what they tell me and they are conservative Jews, not reform. 

My entire crew growing up was 50% italo-american - 50% Jews. 

 
 

 

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2009, 11:39:24 AM »

Besides, you declared health care issue dead weeks ago, and you claimed victory.  Why still fighting the fight?

I noticed that so far no answer to this query has been given yet, no matter how many times you ask.

But hey, if the healthcare fails, the Repubs win.  And if it passes, the Repubs win.  If anyone could understand logic like that we might have our answer.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2009, 11:42:54 AM »
I noticed that so far no answer to this query has been given yet, no matter how many times you ask.

But hey, if the healthcare fails, the Repubs win.  And if it passes, the Repubs win.  If anyone could understand logic like that we might have our answer.

Its not dead yet because Obama refuses to give it up.  However, as of yesterday, the votes are not there even on the house, let alone the Senate.

If this fails, Dear Leader's other agenda is donezo.   

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2009, 11:44:56 AM »
Its not dead yet because Obama refuses to give it up.  However, as of yesterday, the votes are not there even on the house, let alone the Senate.

If this fails, Dear Leader's other agenda is donezo.   

Again, no conclusive answer.

So if it fails, that means... what?  Because it is stated that if the bill passes, then Repubs win.  So I guess if it fails, that would mean Repubs lose?  That is the logical explanation of that kind of spin.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2009, 11:47:27 AM »
Again, no conclusive answer.

So if it fails, that means... what?  Because it is stated that if the bill passes, then Repubs win.  So I guess if it fails, that would mean Repubs lose?  That is the logical explanation of that kind of spin.

The GOP sucks right now.  I wanted to kick McLame in the teeth last night, along with Linsy Graham.  They are wortheless.  I could care less about the GOP>

I wasnt good things to pass and bad things to fail, regardless of party.  This monstrosity is a disaster.   

LurkerNoMore

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2009, 12:03:21 PM »
That wasn't what I asked.

How about a simple answer?


Soul Crusher

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Re: Even DU liberals admit Obama's speech was a joke and packed with lies.
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2009, 12:16:38 PM »
That wasn't what I asked.

How about a simple answer?



Who wins if this fails in the American taxpayer.