Author Topic: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbers?  (Read 11950 times)

The True Adonis

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1.7 million-2 million is what Fox and other Right Wing blog sites initially claimed, even when shown that they were grossly wrong.

So why do you guys think they still kept the lie going even when provided with evidence?

The True Adonis

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Bloggers said this photo showed a gargantuan crowd at Saturday's "tea party" protest. But it apparently was taken in 1997 at a Promise Keepers rally.

The True Adonis

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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/sep/14/tea-party-photo-shows-large-crowd-different-event/

Ruling: Pants on Fire! | Details

"Tea party" photo shows huge crowd — at different event

Bloggers said this photo showed a gargantuan crowd at Saturday's "tea party" protest. But it apparently was taken in 1997 at a Promise Keepers rally.

In the competitive world of Washington protests, crowd size is often a matter of dispute. Organizers usually boast of huge crowds, while police and the news media offer much smaller estimates.

So supporters of Saturday’s “tea party” protests against President Barack Obama were quick to highlight their big turnout. To bolster countless claims on blogs and Facebook, many posted a photograph that showed a gargantuan crowd sprawling from Capitol Hill down the National Mall to the Washington Monument.

But it turns out the photo is more than 10 years old, apparently taken during a 1997 Promise Keepers rally.

On Saturday, estimates about the crowd spread quickly through the conservative blogosphere. Many writers, including author Michelle Malkin, pegged the number of people between 1 million and 2 million. Those reports were largely based on information from people in the crowd.

Malkin, for example, updated her blog at 12:34 p.m. noting that, “Police estimate 1.2 million in attendance. ABC News reporting crowd at 2 million,” and she cited a Twitter post from Tabitha Hale, writer of Pink Elephant Pundit, who was in Washington for the protest.

Many bloggers said the media was unfairly reporting much smaller numbers, and many included the photo.

“I have no doubt that Washington Democrats are well aware of how many people turned out, even as their media outlets try to downplay the event,” said Power Line, a conservative blog that linked to the photograph from Say Anything, another conservative Web site.

“ 'Media’ estimates range from 60,000 to 500,000 to around 2 million (yes, 2,000,000),” wrote John G. Winder for the conservative blog Cypress Times. “Those estimates, the language employed, and the visuals chosen for use in reporting the rally and representing the people gathered, vary greatly based solely on bias.”

In the mainstream media, crowd estimates varied.

The New York Times reported that “thousands” of protesters “filled the west lawn of the Capitol and spilled onto the National Mall,” while Fox News wrote that “tens of thousands” marched on Washington. CNN said “reporters at the scene described the massive crowd as reaching the tens of thousands.”

Pete Piringer, public affairs officer for the D.C. Fire and Emergency Department, said the local government no longer provides official crowd estimates because they can become politicized. But the day of the rally, Piringer unofficially told one reporter that he thought between 60,000 and 75,000 people had shown up.

“It was in no way an official estimate,” he said.

We asked Piringer whether there were enough protesters to fill the National Mall, as depicted in the photograph.

“It was an impressive crowd,” he said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol, the crowd “only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street,” he said.

Yet the photograph so widely posted showed the crowd sprawling all the way to the Washington Monument, which is bordered by 15th and and 17th Streets.

There’s another problem with the photograph: It doesn’t include the National Museum of the American Indian, a building located at the corner of Fourth Street and Independence Avenue that opened on Sept. 14, 2004. (Looking at the photograph, the building should be in the upper right hand corner of the National Mall, next to the Air and Space Museum.) That means the picture was taken before the museum opened exactly five years ago. So clearly the photo doesn’t show the “tea party” crowd from the Sept. 12 protest.

Also worth noting are the cranes in front of the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History. According to Randall Kremer, the museum’s director of public affairs, “The last time cranes were in front was in the 1990s when the IMAX theater was being built.”

It appears that the photo was actually taken in 1997 at a rally for Promise Keepers, a group for Christian men. According to the group’s Web site, nearly 1 million people attended the event. Photos of the Oct. 4, 1997, event that were posted on various Web sites in 2003, 2008 and earlier this year show either the same picture or a similar photo that has identical tents and what appear to be TV screens in the same locations.

Conservative bloggers who originally posted the picture have backed down.

Malkin, like some of her conservative cohorts, retracted the number she had attributed to ABC when the network chastised FreedomWorks president Matt Kibbe, whose organization arranged the event, for inaccurately telling the crowd that the news organization had reported the crowd at 1 million to 1.5 million people.

Malkin linked to the ABC story on her site, and changed her blog post headline to “Celebrating the 9/12 rallies; Turnout estimated at 2 million; Update: How many?; FreedomWorks in error.”

Say Anything updated its original post to say that the picture was “of the wrong rally.” An accurate photo “clearly shows that (the rally) didn’t take place on the mall nearly as extensively as the image I mistakenly posted does.” Power Line took the picture down all together.

But because mistakes can still live forever on the Internet and many people who saw the photo on Facebook were unaware it was found to be the wrong picture, we decided to still rate it on the Truth-O-Meter. And Pants on Fire it is.

UPDATED: We updated this item with new details about the Promise Keepers photos.

tonymctones

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Actually fox reported 10's of thousands

So why is it do you think you lied?


Dos Equis

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Actually fox reported 10's of thousands

So why is it do you think you lied?



lol

headhuntersix

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Um the cops said 1-2 million...and Malkin ran with that. ABC said the same thing based on what the cops said. It was about 70K pretty friggen big for a Conservative rally. Ur guy is failing miserably...no more hand outs.
L

The True Adonis

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Actually fox reported 10's of thousands

So why is it do you think you lied?


Orly.


Hugo Chavez

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Um the cops said 1-2 million...and Malkin ran with that. ABC said the same thing based on what the cops said. It was about 70K pretty friggen big for a Conservative rally. Ur guy is failing miserably...no more hand outs.
actually the biggest lie came from freedomworks and blamed on ABC which was a lie, pure and simple.  Fox saying the mall was full when at no point was the mall completely full is a lie.

The True Adonis

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Um the cops said 1-2 million...and Malkin ran with that. ABC said the same thing based on what the cops said. It was about 70K pretty friggen big for a Conservative rally. Ur guy is failing miserably...no more hand outs.
70,000 is pretty small actually if this was to be considered the eye of the hurricane of Conservative organization.  :-\

Me thinks it was even less than 70,000 and that is a high estimate.  I believe more people would turn out to see Miley Cyrus on a rainy school night in an outdoor venue in Omaha than march to an incoherent and discordant message of who knows what in Washington DC.

240 is Back

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Um the cops said 1-2 million...

Link?  I thought DC police said 60k.  Malkin said the event organizer was wrong, not the DC popo.

Purge_WTF

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  I'm a Conservative, and Aunty Thomasina exaggerated the numbers to inflate what they realized was a lower-than-expected turnout. She needs to find a coma.

The True Adonis

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Re: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbe
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2009, 05:20:48 PM »
  I'm a Conservative, and Aunty Thomasina exaggerated the numbers to inflate what they realized was a lower-than-expected turnout. She needs to find a coma.
Do you think the majority of the Conservatives realize the gross exaggeration or, like some on here, even when given facts, still choose to believe in their own version or vision of reality?

Purge_WTF

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Re: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbe
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2009, 05:23:51 PM »
Do you think the majority of the Conservatives realize the gross exaggeration or, like some on here, even when given facts, still choose to believe in their own version or vision of reality?

  I don't think they really cared. They concentrated on what was/is a good cause.

The True Adonis

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Re: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbe
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2009, 05:28:07 PM »
  I don't think they really cared. They concentrated on what was/is a good cause.
If one blatantly disregards fact and willfully eschews evidence, than how can one know what is or what is not a valid or viable cause?


Coach is Back!

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1.7 million-2 million is what Fox and other Right Wing blog sites initially claimed, even when shown that they were grossly wrong.

So why do you guys think they still kept the lie going even when provided with evidence?

You're just pissed because your boy's approval ratings are below 50%. Get over it and just accept the fact we told you so.

Purge_WTF

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Re: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbe
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2009, 05:33:54 PM »
If one blatantly disregards fact and willfully eschews evidence, than how can one know what is or what is not a valid or viable cause?



  Well, I think most people would agree that spending and deficit growth has been through the roof.

The True Adonis

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Re: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbe
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2009, 05:38:41 PM »
You're just pissed because your boy's approval ratings are below 50%. Get over it and just accept the fact we told you so.
I couldn`t care less what any rating reads as I do believe the majority of Americans are mentally inept.  Most even believe in an imaginary sky-god who has a zombie son that holds the key to survival once you are dead.  I have little faith in the common collective mind of America at any given time and look upon my fellow countrymen as mere dimwits for the most part.


Hope this helps.

Skip8282

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I have little faith in the common collective mind of America at any given time and look upon my fellow countrymen as mere dimwits for the most part.


Hope this helps.


Don't hold back, TA.  Tell us how you really feel.

Dos Equis

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Re: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbe
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2009, 06:07:02 PM »
I have little faith in the common collective mind of America at any given time and look upon my fellow countrymen as mere dimwits for the most part.


Could you possibly be any more arrogant?  (Rhetorical question)

The True Adonis

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Re: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbe
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2009, 06:09:15 PM »
Could you possibly be any more arrogant?  (Rhetorical question)
Just continuing the school of thought that the Founders had in mind, particularly Adams and Jefferson.  :D

Dos Equis

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Re: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbe
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2009, 06:12:56 PM »
Just continuing the school of thought that the Founders had in mind, particularly Adams and Jefferson.  :D

So you don't walk around thinking you're smarter than everyone else and/or that most people are stupid?  

George Whorewell

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Most shut ins that spend 100+ hours a week on line and have no lives, social status, jobs or compainsonship with members of the opposite sex tend to have delusions of grandeur and are deeply disturbed narcissists. TA fits this profile like a glove. The trouble is that in most threads he ends up looking like a totally brain dead jack ass. Once his ignorance is exposed he disappears from the political board for a day or so, then returns with another dumb ass posting jam-packed with imaginary statistics, hundred page articles from liberal blogs and out of date you tube videos.

I think that the Conservative media purposely lied about the number of attendees just to see how the worlds richest, most educated, and strongest deadlifting socialist would react on GetBig.com.


The True Adonis

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Re: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbe
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2009, 06:29:40 PM »
So you don't walk around thinking you're smarter than everyone else and/or that most people are stupid?  
Obviously you don`t know too much about John Adams and his view of the Natural Aristocracy of men and how he and Jefferson discussed it at length.


Hope this helps.



http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch15s62.html

The True Adonis

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Re: Conservatives-why do YOU think Conservative media lied about teabagger numbe
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2009, 06:32:05 PM »
http://www.greatbooks.org/index.php?id=301

The Natural Aristocracy by Thomas Jefferson
To John Adams

Monticello, October 28, 1813



I agree with you that there is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents. Formerly, bodily powers gave place among the aristoi [aristocrats]. But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missile death, bodily strength, like beauty, good humor, politeness, and other accomplishments, has become but an auxiliary ground for distinction. There is also an artificial aristocracy, founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class. The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature, for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed, it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say, that that form of government is the best, which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government? The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent its ascendency.…I think the best remedy is exactly that provided by all our constitutions, to leave to the citizens the free election and separation of the aristoi from the pseudo-aristoi [pseudoaristocrats], of the wheat from the chaff. In general they will elect the really good and wise. In some instances, wealth may corrupt, and birth blind them, but not in sufficient degree to endanger the society.

…At the first session of our legislature after the Declaration of Independence, we passed a law abolishing entails [limitations on the inheritance of property to a specified succession of heirs]. And this was followed by one abolishing the privilege of primogeniture [the eldest child’s exclusive right of inheritance], and dividing the lands of intestates equally among all their children, or other representatives. These laws, drawn by myself, laid the ax to the foot of pseudoaristocracy. And had another which I prepared been adopted by the legislature, our work would have been complete. It was a bill for the more general diffusion of learning. This proposed to divide every county into wards of five or six miles square, like your townships; to establish in each ward a free school for reading, writing, and common arithmetic; to provide for the annual selection of the best subjects from these schools, who might receive, at the public expense, a higher degree of education at a district school; and from these district schools to select a certain number of the most promising subjects, to be completed at a university, where all the useful sciences should be taught. Worth and genius would thus have been sought out from every condition of life, and completely prepared by education for defeating the competition of wealth and birth for public trusts….

With respect to aristocracy, we should further consider, that before the establishment of the American States, nothing was known to history but the man of the old world, crowded within limits either small or overcharged, and steeped in the vices which that situation generates. A government adapted to such men would be one thing, but a very different one, that for the man of these States. Here every one may have land to labor for himself, if he chooses; or, preferring the exercise of any other industry, may exact for it such compensation as not only to afford a comfortable subsistence, but wherewith to provide for a cessation from labor in old age. Every one, by his property, or by his satisfactory situation, is interested in the support of law and order. And such men may safely and advantageously reserve to themselves a wholesome control over their public affairs, and a degree of freedom, which, in the hands of the canaille [the masses] of the cities of Europe, would be instantly perverted to the demolition and destruction of everything public and private. The history of the last twenty-five years of France, and of the last forty years in America, nay of its last two hundred years, proves the truth of both parts of this observation.

But even in Europe a change has sensibly taken place in the mind of man. Science had liberated the ideas of those who read and reflect, and the American example had kindled feelings of right in the people. An insurrection has consequently begun, of science, talents, and courage, against rank and birth, which have fallen into contempt. It has failed in its first effort, because the mobs of the cities, the instrument used for its accomplishment, debased by ignorance, poverty, and vice, could not be restrained to rational action. But the world will recover from the panic of this first catastrophe. Science is progressive, and talents and enterprise on the alert. Resort may be had to the people of the country, a more governable power from their principles and subordination; and rank, and birth, and tinsel-aristocracy will finally shrink into insignificance, even there. This, however, we have no right to meddle with. It suffices for us, if the moral and physical condition of our own citizens qualifies them to select the able and good for the direction of their government, with a recurrence of elections at such short periods as will enable them to displace an unfaithful servant, before the mischief he meditates may be irremediable.

…A constitution has been acquired, which, though neither of us thinks perfect, yet both consider as competent to render our fellow citizens the happiest and the securest on whom the sun has ever shone. If we do not think exactly alike as to its imperfections, it matters little to our country, which, after devoting to it long lives of disinterested labor, we have delivered over to our successors in life, who will be able to take care of it and of themselves.

headhuntersix

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TA.....ur in the minority...ur supposed intellectual superiority is all in ur delusional fantasies. U can't make a single argument without some bullshit cut and paste job. Guys like straw, Hugo and Decker easily hold their own and make thier points without capitalizing some wiki article. When called out u disappear, all the while feverishly looking up data to support ur position. Obama is failing and ur worried about the exact count at a march against ur douchebag messiah. Barry's numbers after the speech are the back to what they just were before. He lost his magical feel good enema campaign speeches. Ur dimwit country want facts, Barry doesn't have em. And while he's worried about shit canning America...we're loosing ground in Latin America and Afghanistan. He's a looser, his own party won't back him in Afghanistan, and if he really wants to stay, he has to deal with his only support...Republicans. His admin is a joke. Hil is eyeing a run for Gov in New York...and this is a Clinton...she'll do what she can to undermine Ol Barry as she goes. But u keep worrying about Fox news.


Oh look another cut and paste job...neither did u before u cut this......ur a fucking joke.
L