aas/comps

[muscle19]

ok here is a question, i have seen pros diets for comps and they eat such a considerable amount of carbs, is this because of the slin or what? i mean withe the fat burners/aas/cardio/training are they able to eat such a high amount of carbs and still get ripped?

[Arnold jr]

ok here is a question, i have seen pros diets for comps and they eat such a considerable amount of carbs, is this because of the slin or what? i mean withe the fat burners/aas/cardio/training are they able to eat such a high amount of carbs and still get ripped?

You have to take into account the large amount of muscle tissue these guys have. If the average bodybuilder carried as much muscle mass, he'd be able to utilize this many carbs too.

Another note, not all pro's take in huge amounts of carbs on their diets...you know there are guys like Cutler who eat massive amounts of carbs even while dieting, then there are guys like Freeman who follow keto diets and do very well. Then there are guys like Flex Lewis, obviously he's not as big as a Cutler or Freeman so his carb intake is much lower than say Cutler and it continually lessens as the diet progresses but then when it comes to his carb up, it's one of the largest of probably any competitor out there. Flex's nutritionist Neil Hill is IMO one of the sharpest guru's out there...I'd definitely recommend looking into his methods if interested.

[tbombz]

its about getting your body int an energy defecit, not about carbs or fats.  you can do high carb low fat, high fat low carb, med carb med fat..... all will work for fat loss as long as your energy out exceeds energy in. 

there is nothing about carsb that makes it so you cant get ripped, in fact 99% of all bodybuilders have always used a high carb low fat diet (of course high protein as well). the most shredded/best bodybuilders  of all time have been high carb low fat. munzer, dorian, coleman, flex, shawn ray, kevin levrone, nasser, dexter, victor, jay, lee haney, kai green, phil heath, lee preist, chris cormier,  etc etc etc.

carbs influence t3 levels, cortisol levels, igf1 levels, glycogen levels, cellular water content.... they are anti catabolic and protein sparing... etc.

[Arnold jr]

its about getting your body int an energy defecit, not about carbs or fats.  you can do high carb low fat, high fat low carb, med carb med fat..... all will work for fat loss as long as your energy out exceeds energy in. 

there is nothing about carsb that makes it so you cant get ripped, in fact 99% of all bodybuilders have always used a high carb low fat diet (of course high protein as well). the most shredded/best bodybuilders  of all time have been high carb low fat. munzer, dorian, coleman, flex, shawn ray, kevin levrone, nasser, dexter, victor, jay, lee haney, kai green, phil heath, lee preist, chris cormier,  etc etc etc.

carbs influence t3 levels, cortisol levels, igf1 levels, glycogen levels, cellular water content.... they are anti catabolic and protein sparing... etc.

In general purposes you're absolutely right, it's all about burning energy, creating a deficit, etc. There's a million ways to go about it, and you're also right, almost all of these ways will work...how well though, that's where it varies. I'm a firm believer that not all dieting methods work the same for everyone.

For example: guy one follows a high carb low fat diet, guy two a low carb high fat diet, both take in high protein, the same amounts of protein, and the total amount of calories is the same. Both carry the same amount of muscle mass and burn the same amount of calories every day. In every way their equal except for the manner in which they split their carbs and fats up. There's no way you can say from the start of both of their diets that they'll have equal success. Everyone's body reacts differently to various nutrients...this is a stone cold fact.

[tbombz]

In general purposes you're absolutely right, it's all about burning energy, creating a deficit, etc. There's a million ways to go about it, and you're also right, almost all of these ways will work...how well though, that's where it varies. I'm a firm believer that not all dieting methods work the same for everyone.

For example: guy one follows a high carb low fat diet, guy two a low carb high fat diet, both take in high protein, the same amounts of protein, and the total amount of calories is the same. Both carry the same amount of muscle mass and burn the same amount of calories every day. In every way their equal except for the manner in which they split their carbs and fats up. There's no way you can say from the start of both of their diets that they'll have equal success. Everyone's body reacts differently to various nutrients...this is a stone cold fact.

sure, to some degree everyone has different sensitivities. i dont think that its going to make a dramatic difference between two people though. if youy have a calorie defecit it doesnt matter if your insulin resistant and eating carbs, your still going to lose weight. (even though its going to be impossible to be insulin resistant in a calorie defecit...at least in the sense of the term that insulin is pushing carbs into fat and not muscle).

generally speaking older people have start to develop an "intolerance" to carbs, but they can still eat them as long as they are controlled and coupled with lower fat intake.

[Arnold jr]

sure, to some degree everyone has different sensitivities. i dont think that its going to make a dramatic difference between two people though. if youy have a calorie defecit it doesnt matter if your insulin resistant and eating carbs, your still going to lose weight. (even though its going to be impossible to be insulin resistant in a calorie defecit...at least in the sense of the term that insulin is pushing carbs into fat and not muscle).

generally speaking older people have start to develop an "intolerance" to carbs, but they can still eat them as long as they are controlled and coupled with lower fat intake.

It can absolutely make a huge difference between two people. I understand that on paper it doesn't seem that way but I've always been fond of saying that paper is not always applicable to real life...and that is probably more true here than anywhere else in regards to the things we talk about on here.

I'll use Flex Lewis as an example again only because I'm very familiar with his diet and methods. Flex tried a high fat low carb diet last year before a show, before this past show where he won the 202 he went back to a high carb low fat diet...both diets were relatively the same amount of calories overall. The difference in his physique, the hardness and detail is not even comparable. On both diets, his training was exactly the same. So the notion that calories burned was different can't be the reason.

A little side note about Flex that's kind of cool, his carb up starts either Wed night or Thur morning depending on how he's looking and he takes in 1500-2000g of carbs each day, sometimes a little more, all from pretty much potatoes and oats. That's a shit ton of carbs and there are a lot of pro's who could never get away with taking in that many carbs for a carb up even one's that are much larger than him.

[tbombz]

did he do anything else different? i doubt a diet change wih equal protein and calories is going to make a professional bodybuilder look any different. was his drug intake different? did he do something stupid during the others shows last week? etc etc

[Arnold jr]

did he do anything else different? i doubt a diet change wih equal protein and calories is going to make a professional bodybuilder look any different. was his drug intake different? did he do something stupid during the others shows last week? etc etc

Nothing different other than the diet change. I am positive about this.

[WillGrant]

You have to take into account the large amount of muscle tissue these guys have. If the average bodybuilder carried as much muscle mass, he'd be able to utilize this many carbs too.

Another note, not all pro's take in huge amounts of carbs on their diets...you know there are guys like Cutler who eat massive amounts of carbs even while dieting, then there are guys like Freeman who follow keto diets and do very well. Then there are guys like Flex Lewis, obviously he's not as big as a Cutler or Freeman so his carb intake is much lower than say Cutler and it continually lessens as the diet progresses but then when it comes to his carb up, it's one of the largest of probably any competitor out there. Flex's nutritionist Neil Hill is IMO one of the sharpest guru's out there...I'd definitely recommend looking into his methods if interested.

Good post..
Man Jays low carb days whilst heading into comp would blow me up like a sumo 

[Van_Bilderass]

Flex's nutritionist Neil Hill is IMO one of the sharpest guru's out there...I'd definitely recommend looking into his methods if interested.

Does this guy post on any forum? Any articles published on the net?

[Schmoe Buster]

Neil placed 16th at the 2002 British GP, he has also been helping Lee Powell who got 3rd at the Tampa 202

[Arnold jr]

Does this guy post on any forum? Any articles published on the net?

Not sure. He does a lot of stuff with Gaspari so you might start there.

[Van_Bilderass]

Not sure. He does a lot of stuff with Gaspari so you might start there.

Where did you learn about his methods?

[Arnold jr]

Where did you learn about his methods?

Directly from him

[Schmoe Buster]

Directly from him

do you know what kind of cycles and doses he recommends?

[Arnold jr]

do you know what kind of cycles and doses he recommends?

He doesn't advice very strong cycles in terms of high dose. Neil is very much one of these guys that advocates getting the most out of diet and training and being responsible with ones health...personally I think the BB world could use a few more guys like him.

He is not a fan of insulin at all and is not a huge fan of T-3...not saying he doesn't advise using T-3, but it's for very short burst.

I have not talked to him in great detail about cycles, they've just been general conversations, so I can't give you a detailed sample of what a plan might look like in that regard. We've talked mostly about diet, both off-season and contest but much more about contest dieting.

Neil also has some great methods of training the last wk before a show that are in my opinion somethings that really help separate his ideas from others. He is a firm believer that a BB can help his dryness and tightness that last wk even more so with a proper training protocol and I think he's right.

[Van_Bilderass]

Neil also has some great methods of training the last wk before a show that are in my opinion somethings that really help separate his ideas from others. He is a firm believer that a BB can help his dryness and tightness that last wk even more so with a proper training protocol and I think he's right.

Is this a trade secret or something you can elaborate on? 

[Schmoe Buster]

Is this a trade secret or something you can elaborate on? 

X2, can you tell us Arnold?

[Arnold jr]

Is this a trade secret or something you can elaborate on?  

It's actually fairly simple. You know how a lot of people during that last wk they'll simply train to get a pump and get the blood moving, and so on. His workouts though that last wk can actually be brutal. It's just 2-3 training sessions, the last one coming on Wed, no leg training that last wk.

There are a lot of drop sets, as in a ton of them...every exercise is a drop set for the most part and not just one drop, it could be as much as four or five drops in each set. He'll also have the competitor perform the lifts a little differently than they normally would...he says that he's always a fan of full range of motion but in this case he has the competitor sort of stay in the sweet spot with each lift, and he'll add in some twist and little tweaks to each movement that you wouldn't normally do...hard to describe by writing it out, but think of it as stretching moves coupled with the lift...that's the best way I know how to describe it.

The idea behind all of this is at this point the competitor is carb depleting and these training sessions ensure that every last bit of glycogen is pushed out of the muscle, as well as the muscles are stretched and opened up even more so in order to prepare for the carb load that will begin shortly. Honestly, in someways this doesn't seem to make sense...after all, when we look at how the body works, simply burning energy is enough to use up glycogen stores but Neil would say that there's typically more in there than a competitor realizes and that the techniques of the training that wk will really open up the muscles to a heavy carb load that will respond better than they might otherwise.

I'm not sure if I did a good job of explaining this...if not I'll try again, lol!

[local hero]

lets see if zack kahn follows his advice to the letter and comes in looking how we all know he can...

theres a few very clued up guys in the uk, neil being one of them

[Van_Bilderass]

It's actually fairly simple. You know how a lot of people during that last wk they'll simply train to get a pump and get the blood moving, and so on. His workouts though that last wk can actually be brutal. It's just 2-3 training sessions, the last one coming on Wed, no leg training that last wk.

There are a lot of drop sets, as in a ton of them...every exercise is a drop set for the most part and not just one drop, it could be as much as four or five drops in each set. He'll also have the competitor perform the lifts a little differently than they normally would...he says that he's always a fan of full range of motion but in this case he has the competitor sort of stay in the sweet spot with each lift, and he'll add in some twist and little tweaks to each movement that you wouldn't normally do...hard to describe by writing it out, but think of it as stretching moves coupled with the lift...that's the best way I know how to describe it.

The idea behind all of this is at this point the competitor is carb depleting and these training sessions ensure that every last bit of glycogen is pushed out of the muscle, as well as the muscles are stretched and opened up even more so in order to prepare for the carb load that will begin shortly. Honestly, in someways this doesn't seem to make sense...after all, when we look at how the body works, simply burning energy is enough to use up glycogen stores but Neil would say that there's typically more in there than a competitor realizes and that the techniques of the training that wk will really open up the muscles to a heavy carb load that will respond better than they might otherwise.

I'm not sure if I did a good job of explaining this...if not I'll try again, lol!

Isn't this basically what Milos does? Crazy depletion with tons of giant sets from all angles and a heavy 3 day carb load? This hard depletion and then loading method is hands down the most used method ever. IIRC Duchaine even recommended training everything 3 days in a row to get real depleted.

[Arnold jr]

Isn't this basically what Milos does? Crazy depletion with tons of giant sets from all angles and a heavy 3 day carb load? This hard depletion and then loading method is hands down the most used method ever. IIRC Duchaine even recommended training everything 3 days in a row to get real depleted.

I guess in basic principle it is very similar...Neil simply has his own little twist to it that he adds. He does not though have you train everything 3 days in a row...you only work the body part 1 time that wk.

[Schmoe Buster]

I guess in basic principle it is very similar...Neil simply has his own little twist to it that he adds. He does not though have you train everything 3 days in a row...you only work the body part 1 time that wk.

Thanks Arnold, simple but effective method