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Author Topic: Do the right thing!  (Read 3849 times)
BayGBM
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« on: September 24, 2009, 04:39:04 PM »

Should I out my daughter?

Q: My daughter, in her late 20s, has a same-sex partner. Most of our very large, very Catholic family knows this except my husband’s parents.They have a summer home, and their rule is that nonmarried children and their opposite-sex partners may not share a bedroom. My daughter and her partner often claim a small room for two, and her grandparents regard the girls, who live together, as good friends. My younger daughter thinks it unfair that she and her boyfriend must sleep in separate rooms. We have a family reunion coming up. Should I say something to my in-laws about my older daughter? NAME WITHHELD


A: It is not you but your daughter who may decide if she is to come out to her grandparents. If there were some sort of emergency that compelled this revelation — a complicated science-fiction scenario in which thwarting an alien invasion demanded the intervention of some sort of heroic interstellar lesbian and your daughter were reluctant to step up, well, then perhaps you could announce, “She is gay enough to battle the slime creatures and save the planet.” But you may not pre-empt so consequential and intimate a decision merely out of deference to a house rule.

Instead you should tell your daughter to adhere to that rule or find another place to stay. If her grandparents want to live a certain way in their own house, maintaining a sort of moral Colonial Williamsburg, then so be it. Your daughter should not exploit their obliviousness to cadge a free room.
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Eyeball Chambers
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2009, 05:51:45 PM »

Out her, she shouldn't deceive her grandparents.  Undecided
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2009, 07:19:02 PM »

who cares the real question is why are gay dudes allowed in male locker rooms but im not allowed in female locker rooms?  Angry Grin Wink

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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2009, 05:15:20 AM »

who cares the real question is why are gay dudes allowed in male locker rooms but im not allowed in female locker rooms?  Angry Grin Wink



It's discrimination!!!
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benchmstr
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2009, 09:11:04 AM »

who cares the real question is why are gay dudes allowed in male locker rooms but im not allowed in female locker rooms?  Angry Grin Wink


valid point, i am writing my congressman!!!!

bench
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BayGBM
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2009, 09:33:13 AM »

UPDATE: The house was so crowded during the reunion that no young couple, wed or unwed, had its own room. The younger people bunked dormitory style, one room assigned to boys, another to girls.
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Montague
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2009, 11:30:40 AM »

Out her, she shouldn't deceive her grandparents.  Undecided

Agree.
It's also time someone introduced the grandparents to REAL LIFE.
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BayGBM
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2009, 12:26:08 PM »

Agree.
It's also time someone introduced the grandparents to REAL LIFE.

Wrong.  The granddaughter is entitled to come out in her own time and in her own way—and to whom she chooses.  It is not the mother’s place to make that decision for her.  If the mother wants to make disclosures about her own sex life (or other aspects of her private life) that is her business, but it is not her business to decide that her daughter must inform her grandparents or when she should inform them.

If the granddaughter recently had an abortion, had a religious conversion, was raped, etc.  Those, too, would be private matters for her to decide with whom to share.  The decision does not rest with her mother.
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Montague
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2009, 01:03:58 PM »

Okay, I agree with you, and my statement above needs clarification.
My agreement was in reference to the grandparents knowing – not necessarily the mother “tattling.”
Looking at that again, I can see my mistake.

If the two women wish to keep it a secret for privacy sake, fine – that’s their prerogative.
But if they withhold the information out of fear the grandparents will look down on them…

Hey, the grandparents need to deal with it, and forget about their phony, idealistic, "perfect" world.
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2009, 01:06:22 PM »

Very touchy subject. Remember, it is her decision and she is over the age of 21 so what she chooses to do with her life is her business.
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BayGBM
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2009, 01:31:39 PM »

Okay, I agree with you, and my statement above needs clarification.
My agreement was in reference to the grandparents knowing – not necessarily the mother “tattling.”
Looking at that again, I can see my mistake.

If the two women wish to keep it a secret for privacy sake, fine – that’s their prerogative.
But if they withhold the information out of fear the grandparents will look down on them…

Hey, the grandparents need to deal with it, and forget about their phony, idealistic, "perfect" world.


It is a rare event when I a getbigger admits to being wrong!  Well done.

One can never precisely know why someone else chooses to keep a given secret so it is not our place to judge the appropriateness of her choosing to do so.  It is enough to know that all people (including ourselves) are entitled to a measure of privacy.

What if you were busted for using roids, and you shared this news with your mother.  Would it be her business to tell everyone else in the family?


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BayGBM
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2009, 04:37:19 PM »

Another one...

Q: If I visit the gym 120 times in the year, my health insurer sends me $150. Visits are recorded by calling from a designated phone in the gym. On occasion, I run or bike the four-mile round trip between home and the gym, make the call inside and leave without working out. I’m getting the same amount of exercise, just not at the gym. Ethical? J. W., PHILADELPHIA


A:  If only your insurer offered cash incentives for vigorous deceit, you’d be in the clear. Alas, the point of this program is not merely that you “visit” the gym but that you use the facilities for a workout. While it is nice that you get some exercise going to and from the gym (rather than employing litter-bearers), you fail to honor the program’s intent: to provide an incentive for better health through gym usage.

If you prefer biking and running to working out in the gym, why not simply cancel your membership? Your savings on gym fees would be, by my rough estimate, 100 percent. And you’d cut down on self-serving rationalizations. Incidentally, as a cyclist myself, I know that commuting two miles in each direction isn’t much of a workout. It’s not a bad run, I suppose. And on foot or on pedal, it is preferable to spending the time lounging on the couch eating pie.

One other point. I’m no authority on oral hygiene, but I urge you to eschew your cunning literalism and do more than “visit” your dentist twice a year. Open wide and have him check your teeth.
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tonymctones
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2009, 10:05:14 PM »

^^^^

lets be honest youre spending a lot more the 150 a year in general to use a gym so whether its to use it to exercise or use to to use as a shelter to get a tax break while exercising shouldnt matter if you were saving more money then you spent ok then you should have to verify it but for shits sake if your going to the gym and making a phone call simply to save 150 buck while spending 400 a year this is the least of your problems...math/reasoning maybe something you need to check into...
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BayGBM
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2009, 08:46:04 AM »

Q: I recognized a friend in a short video clip on an amateur pornography Web site. She is now a medical professional, wife and mother, and I doubt that she posted it. (Perhaps a former boyfriend did.) I think she would want to know it’s there, but I fear the effect on our friendship if I tell her. Maybe she’s better off not knowing: it is probably tough to get such a thing removed. Should I tell?NAME WITHHELD, NEW YORK


A:  Your coming forward could embarrass you, upset your friend and threaten your friendship. Do it anyway. You yourself believe she would want to know about the video clip. The longer it is online, the greater the chances of its being seen by someone else who knows her. She can’t protect herself unless she knows the clip is out there. Sometimes you must imperil a friendship to help a friend.

It may well be tough to compel the site to remove this video clip, but your friend is entitled to try. Or she might want to take legal action against a treacherous ex or at least try to learn who posted the clip. Even if she has few alternatives, she has the right to act on them, something she can do only if she knows her situation. By speaking up, you give her a measure of autonomy, a chance to do what she thinks best. And there is the off chance that she already knows about this video because she posted it (and no reason she should not). The intimate lives of even our closest friends can be a mystery.

A caution: Resist the temptation to alert her anonymously, an approach that may shield you but can leave her anxious and uncertain, fretting over who knows about this and the motives of her informant.
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2009, 07:06:34 AM »

Q: My daughter, in her late 20s, has a same-sex partner.

OUTED







pics or it didn't happen.
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BayGBM
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2015, 07:43:37 AM »

Q:  I am a young gay man in college. My father generously pays for my tuition and rent. The problem is that he does not know I am gay. He has made it very clear that if I were, he would not only withdraw all financial support but also cast himself entirely out of my life. His suspicion arose in high school when he found love letters between me and another male student. I swore they were meaningless and have since been defending my heterosexuality. Questions about my sexuality are inevitable whenever I come home. My father has demanded I produce archives of all emails and text messages for him to review, although I have successfully refused these requests on the grounds that he has no claim to my adult communications. Is it ethical for me to continue accepting financial support for my education and my career that will come from it? Could I continue to lie to accept the support and one day disclose my sexuality and pay him back to absolve myself of any ethical wrongdoing? NAME WITHHELD

Amy Bloom: It’s terrible that it should be so hard to get a college education in this country without accumulating massive debt. But what’s happening here is an issue not just of finances but of a real wish on the part of the father to control and bully his son. The fact that the father demands that the son produce archives of all emails and text messages for him to review? That’s just abuse. That’s not about money, and it may not even necessarily be about his being gay. If there were no questions, you could say nothing about your private life and your sexuality.

Lots of people keep these things from their parents, and you can do that in a completely honorable way. The letter writer can, in his position of dependency, lie to his father and know that although he is not taking the bravest or most admirable stance, his lying is understandable. You can certainly forgive yourself for the lying in this circumstance and maybe be mindful of the fact that this will not last and that you won’t have to keep lying.


Kwame Anthony Appiah: It is important, given the general way in which college education is funded in our society, not to think of the parental support here as a kind of free gift that the parent is entitled to withdraw on any basis. Basically, a responsible parent who has the resources has an obligation to provide his fair share after financial aid and contributions from the kid based on his work and so on.

I don’t think that the parent has a right to threaten to withdraw support for any reason except a failure to be serious about college. If you know that if you tell him the truth, he’ll treat you in a way he ought not to treat you, then that’s a circumstance in which a lie — while it continues to be a bad thing — is permissible, given that the consequence of telling the truth will be that somebody else will behave quite impermissibly toward you.

Not only is this young man entitled to conceal the truth from his father, but he doesn’t owe him a repayment later when he can afford it. Threatening not to do your duty if your son turns out to be gay — which is, after all, something over which he has absolutely no control — is awful in many ways. The fact that he would fail to discharge his obligation to pay his fair share if the son told the truth is a reason not to tell him the truth.


Bloom: Calling attention to the Point Foundation is probably one of the most useful things we’ve ever been able to do. There’s nothing healthy or self-affirming in having to constantly lie to a bullying, homophobic father, so the possibility of having the son’s college education funded by the Point Foundation might be a much better solution.

Kwame Anthony Appiah teaches philosophy at N.Y.U. His most recent book is “Lines of Descent: W. E. B. Du Bois and the Emergence of Identity.” Amy Bloom is a novelist and had a psychotherapy practice for 25 years. Her most recent book is “Lucky Us.” Kenji Yoshino teaches law at N.Y.U. and is the author, most recently, of “Speak Now: Marriage Equality on Trial.”
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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2015, 03:12:22 PM »

I'd never be bored enough to read all the subsequent posts but here's my take on the woman asking if she should out the daughter.

It's a classic case of people focusing on stupid crap while the younger kid sees the important issue: The chick and GF are not following the Grandmother's house rules. It's disrespectful. It's not about being a lesbian, Lebanese, or anything else. Instead of saying "Follow the house rule, or don't go" the writer decides to be passive-aggressive and pretend it's some huge thing about being gay. She's uncomfortable about the kid's sexuality and wants more people to help bear the cross, LOL!

Its bad behavior, period. She's getting a free pass by hiding behind sexuality and  using people's uncomfortableness with confrontation to get her own way.

Plenty of people have rules regarding unwed couples sharing a bed. Old fashioned, or not, there are people who feel a certain way. They deserve the same degree of respect as someone with a different opinion.

Being gay doesn't mean there are separate rules.
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BayGBM
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« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2015, 06:30:24 AM »

Q: I am in the military and have been deployed a number of times. Recently, a friend with whom I served in Iraq took his own life and that of his wife. The news is devastating. Since I hadn’t spoken to him in years, I have been trying to figure out what happened through news articles and friends. I have been angered to see the loose connections that the media (and Internet comments) are making between this tragedy and his service and deployment. While he was deployed, he never saw any action, never fired his weapon; I was with him on every convoy. Is it ethical to make this information public to help move the conversation forward on what caused this, or should I remain silent, as I can’t know if this experience helped cause this tragedy? Could the time he spent during his deployment contemplating the possibilities and preparing for what he might have to do have done just as much damage as actually doing it? Name Withheld

A: I am so sorry about your former comrade in arms and his wife. The fact that you spent so much time together in the service means you have better ideas than most about what really happened. It’s quite plausible, as you suggest, that psychological harm can come simply from anticipating life-or-death decisions; it’s perfectly possible, too, that his deployment had little to do with this tragedy. Above all, it’s unfortunate that people who don’t know much about his life have pounced on the story to air their own theories or agendas. Your desire to set the record straight is commendable. (I’m assuming it doesn’t violate the terms of your continuing service.)

The news media and the online commentariat seem to be in the grips of a story template — that of the combat-traumatized veteran who explodes. You rightly want to challenge the cliché. This man might have had a previous susceptibility, a hidden fault line in his psyche, and we can wonder whether the Army could do more to identify and treat mental illness. We can also wonder, alas, how much we can do to forestall such events. Complicating the easy conclusions would be a useful thing to do.

So you should feel free to weigh in. But you shouldn’t feel obliged to. Because it’s so hard to figure out what led to what, your contribution may not make a real difference to the conversation. That’s no reason not to try to add nuance to an oversimplified narrative. It’s hard, however, to drive out false assumptions with real uncertainties — to replace simplicities with complexities. This may be a fight that can’t be won.
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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2015, 07:27:20 AM »

Dear Name Withheld,

Stop being selfish and keep your pie-hole shut.

Don't deal with the fear (of it happening to you) in a way compound a family's tragedy and suffering.
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