Questions for liberals on health care bill

[Al Doggity]

I dont care it takes 4 months for a small percentage of ppl it will cut down on paying for illegal immigrants and help cut down on fraud...

Four months could be the difference between life and death.

Even though you laughed at Kazan's statement, you clearly realize this is not about id, you do realize that this is largely about illegal immigration.

Thats fine then guess what you can do compromise and put language that allows for rape or life threatening pregnancy theres no need to dismiss it all together. Youre very quick to call what a spade a spade as long as its not with the dems this is nothing but a move to allow tax payer funded abortions down the road, talk about political moves.

That language was already in the bill. Hatch's wording had the potential to negate it.

LOL just one doggity i want just one compromise the dems have made?

[/quote]

I listed one, the Baucus revisions. These entire proceedings are about compromise.

[Al Doggity]

CBO completely undermined the claims of the WH and the Senators know that there is no way to finance this without either a massive middle class tax increase and/or rationing.  There are no two ways around it and Obama is on record saying he wont raise taxes and wont sign a bill adding to the deficit.

Hence , he boxed himself in with his own bogus promises and claims. 

This is what you posted:

he reason the "public option" has gone nowhere is because Obama has boxed himself in with his own lies on the subject.

For such a "brilliant, transformational" person, Obama shot himself in the foot on this by simply telling lies he thought us dumb rabble in middle America would not find out.

That is not what these people were screaming about.

[Soul Crusher]

Four months could be the difference between life and death.

Even though you laughed at Kazan's statement, you clearly realize this is not about id, you do realize that this is largely about illegal immigration.

That language was already in the bill. Hatch's wording had the potential to negate it.



I listed one, the Baucus revisions. These entire proceedings are about compromise.

If they really wanted to comprimise and get GOP votes:

1.  Tort Reform
2.  Allow competition accross state lines
3.  Tax breaks for people who purchase individually
4.  No abortions and no funding for illegals.  

[Al Doggity]

If they really wanted to comprimise and get GOP votes:

1.  Tort Reform
2.  Allow competition accross state lines
3.  Tax breaks for people who purchase individually
4.  No abortions and no funding for illegals.  

Bipartisanship is stupid.

[Skip8282]

I never said it outlaws abortion, but the wording of the amendment does potentially threaten whether or not cases of rape or life threatening pregnancies will be covered. It also potentially threatens to compromise a potential abortion patients coverage. The language in the bill was sufficient, yet the language Hatch tacked on had the potential to be used as a backdoor for clandestine political motives.

I'm calling BULLSHIT on this.  Here's the exact wording of Hatch Amendment C14:

"No funds authorized or appropriated under this Mark may be used to pay for any abortion or to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion, except in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself, or unless the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest.
Nothing in this amendment would preclude an insurance issuer from offering a separate, supplemental policy to cover additional abortions. Such a supplemental policy would be funded solely by supplemental premiums paid for by individuals choosing to purchase the policy. "

Did you actually even read the amendment?

[Skip8282]

Link for the above amendment:  http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/1266-Finance-Committee-Rejects-Abortion-Amendment

[Al Doggity]

I'm calling BULLSHIT on this.  Here's the exact wording of Hatch Amendment C14:

"No funds authorized or appropriated under this Mark may be used to pay for any abortion or to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion, except in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself, or unless the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest.
Nothing in this amendment would preclude an insurance issuer from offering a separate, supplemental policy to cover additional abortions. Such a supplemental policy would be funded solely by supplemental premiums paid for by individuals choosing to purchase the policy. "

Did you actually even read the amendment?

That's not the entire amendment. That's the opening description to the amendment.

[Skip8282]

That's not the entire amendment. That's the opening description to the amendment.

That is not the opening description to the amendment.  The description is the exact wording in the amendment.

Here's C12, C13, and C14.  Each is a seperate amendment submitted by Hatch.
http://blog.aul.org/2009/09/30/update-amendments-in-senate-finance-committee-mark-up/

You didn't read shit about the amendment, you just made it up to suit your own.



 

[Kazan]

Even though you laughed at Kazan's statement, you clearly realize this is not about id, you do realize that this is largely about illegal immigration.

So what there is a reason why the word illegal is in illegal immigration

[Skip8282]

By all means Al,

Show me what you're claiming to be the exact language of the bill that justifies your claim that, "the wording of the amendment does potentially threaten whether or not cases of rape or life threatening pregnancies will be covered."

[Skip8282]

Hell Al,

I'll lower the bar.  Why don't you provide a link to an analysis, article, clip, summation, or homeless guy ranting on YouTube that supports your claim that, "the wording of the amendment does potentially threaten whether or not cases of rape or life threatening pregnancies will be covered."

[Soul Crusher]

Bipartisanship is stupid.

Ok fine.  If that is your attitude and said attitute is shared by the dems and WHy, then be prepared for failure, and nothing passed whatsoever. 

[Al Doggity]

Hell Al,

I'll lower the bar.  Why don't you provide a link to an analysis, article, clip, summation, or homeless guy ranting on YouTube that supports your claim that, "the wording of the amendment does potentially threaten whether or not cases of rape or life threatening pregnancies will be covered."

I never claimed to be an expert on the bill.I read some articles on it and got that part wrong. Quite frankly, I wasn't all that interested in it.

But the rest of that post is accurate. There is controversy over how that amendment would have affected certain patients' coverage.  There was already sufficient language in the bill to cover no funds for federal abortions.

[Al Doggity]

So what there is a reason why the word illegal is in illegal immigration

so don't complain about democratic compromise when you try to tack  an unrelated point from your agenda onto a separate bill.Just as you see nothing wrong with trying to push anti-illegal immigrant legistlation through on the back of a health care bill, I see nothing wrong with keeping a measured watch over abortion regulations in the same bill.

[Kazan]

so don't complain about democratic compromise when you try to tack  an unrelated point from your agenda onto a separate bill.Just as you see nothing wrong with trying to push anti-illegal immigrant legistlation through on the back of a health care bill, I see nothing wrong with keeping a measured watch over abortion regulations in the same bill.

Where else are they going to put a stipulation to stop illegal immigrants from getting health care benefits ( tax payer funded) than in the healthcare bill?

Being and American and living in America is priviledge not a right for every illegal that wants to jump the border

[Al Doggity]

Where else are they going to put a stipulation to stop illegal immigrants from getting health care benefits ( tax payer funded) than in the healthcare bill?

Being and American and living in America is priviledge not a right for every illegal that wants to jump the border

Most illegal immigrants pay taxes. It's more beneficial to almost all concerned parties to provide health care to them when necessary. Defeating that amendment was a good decision.

[tonymctones]

Most illegal immigrants pay taxes. It's more beneficial to almost all concerned parties to provide health care to them when necessary. Defeating that amendment was a good decision.

im so tired of this worn out arguement, tourists from other countries pay about the same taxes should we give them free health care too?

[Al Doggity]

im so tired of this worn out arguement, tourists from other countries pay about the same taxes should we give them free health care too?

I'm not talking about a sales tax. Most illegal immigrants use fake social security numbers to get employment in the legitimate sector. They pay payroll taxes and contribute to social security to the tune of billions a year, but aren't eligible to take anything out,

[Soul Crusher]

I'm not talking about a sales tax. Most illegal immigrants use fake social security numbers to get employment in the legitimate sector. They pay payroll taxes and contribute to social security to the tune of billions a year, but aren't eligible to take anything out,

Nor should they considering the huge costs they are whether it be on the ER's under EMTALA, workers comp., state programs, materntiy wards, jails, crime, etc.     

[Al Doggity]

Nor should they considering the huge costs they are whether it be on the ER's under EMTALA, workers comp., state programs, materntiy wards, jails, crime, etc.     

Read the three posts before the one you posted.

[Soul Crusher]

Read the three posts before the one you posted.

I did, how about we jail the employers, cut off the anchor baby situation like Canada did, deport all illegals convicted or pleading guilty to felonies, deport all DWI illegals convicted of DWI, end payments to illegals for public housing and WIC, Section 8, etc?   

[Skip8282]

I'm not talking about a sales tax. Most illegal immigrants use fake social security numbers to get employment in the legitimate sector. They pay payroll taxes and contribute to social security to the tune of billions a year, but aren't eligible to take anything out,

Well this has to be at the top of stupid liberal logic.  They contribute to social security by COMMITTING A CRIME and as such they should be rewarded for it.  Makes perfect sense.     We'll put that up there with burglars entering a home and the suing the homeowner when they get hurt.

[Kazan]

I'm not talking about a sales tax. Most illegal immigrants use fake social security numbers to get employment in the legitimate sector. They pay payroll taxes and contribute to social security to the tune of billions a year, but aren't eligible to take anything out,

Again so what, they are in the US ILLEGALLY, my answer to that is tuff shit, you want to be able to take money out become a citizen. Not to mention that using a fake SS# is also illegal, so lets reward that

[Hedgehog]

Again so what, they are in the US ILLEGALLY, my answer to that is tuff shit, you want to be able to take money out become a citizens

How about this for a novel idea: Lets shut down all US bases on foreign soil.
Move those troops to the Mexico border and around airports and coastal areas.
Save money while raising security at home. Why should USA have to pay for the safety of other nations?

[Kazan]

How about this for a novel idea: Lets shut down all US bases on foreign soil.
Move those troops to the Mexico border and around airports and coastal areas.
Save money while raising security at home. Why should USA have to pay for the safety of other nations?

I'm all for it, but it will never happen because the US has made half the world dependant on our ability to protect them.