Author Topic: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)  (Read 2379 times)

Soul Crusher

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Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« on: October 02, 2009, 04:53:24 AM »
We're broke ... time for a new tax
CNNMoney.com web site ^ | October 2, 2009 | Jeanne Sahadi

Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 7:35:54 AM by RayChuang88

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- President Obama has been steadfast in his pledge that he won't raise taxes on those making less than $250,000.

But that doesn't mean only high-income households will be subject to higher taxes.

An increasing number of influential Democrats and fiscal policy experts have signaled publicly that lawmakers will have to get a handle on the deficit sooner rather than later. And they recommend policymakers seriously consider the creation of adding a value-added tax (VAT) on top of the federal income tax.

That could mean more money out of everyone's pockets when buying virtually anything - sweaters, school books, furniture, pottery classes, dinners out.


(Excerpt) Read more at money.cnn.com ...
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Just what we need, more taxes to pay for illegals, welfare bums, and govt employees.


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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2009, 06:13:19 AM »

Soul Crusher

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2009, 06:19:46 AM »
The entire article.
________________________ _______________

We're broke ... time for a new tax
Given the country's fiscal hole, former Fed chair Paul Volcker and many tax experts say there may be a need for a value-added tax.
By Jeanne Sahadi, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: October 2, 2009: 7:32 AM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- President Obama has been steadfast in his pledge that he won't raise taxes on those making less than $250,000. But that doesn't mean only high-income households will be subject to higher taxes.

An increasing number of influential Democrats and fiscal-policy experts have signaled that lawmakers will have to get a handle on the deficit. And they recommend seriously considering the creation of a value-added tax (VAT) on top of the federal income tax.

That could mean more money out of everyone's pockets when buying virtually anything -- sweaters, school books, furniture, pottery classes, dinners out.

A VAT is tax on consumption similar to a national sales tax. But it's not just paid at the cash register. It's levied at every stage of production. So all businesses involved in making a product or performing a service would pay a VAT. And then the end-user -- such as the retail customer -- ponies up as well.

No one is suggesting raising taxes or creating new ones before the economy stabilizes.

But Paul Volcker, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve who heads President Obama's tax reform panel, is advocating a little advance planning.

When it comes to getting control of the country's debt burden, "I think if we can't do it on the cost side, we've got to go on the revenue side. And it's too early to do it, but it's not too early to begin wondering," Volcker said Wednesday in an televised interview with PBS' Charlie Rose. "You've got talk about some tax that hits consumption," said Volcker. "Value-added is one."

John Podesta, the head of the liberal think tank Center for American Progress who headed President Obama's transition team, also raised the issue of a VAT this week. He noted that the only way to stabilize the debt situation is to reduce spending, reduce the growth in health care costs and add new revenue.

"As progressives we need to debate the policy merits and likelihood of enacting a range of options -- including designing a small and more progressive value-added tax, changes to the corporate tax code, and taxing-upper income earners beyond reversing the Bush tax cuts," Podesta said in a statement.

Podesta's organization, meanwhile, said in a report, "Responsible people know that additional revenue has to be part of the mix even if they believe in lower taxes in general. And those who believe that government investments and spending are critical to our economic and social well-being ... recognize that tax increases on the wealthiest and corporations are not going to solve the whole problem."

Where things stand now

President Obama has proposed closing corporate tax loopholes and increasing the tax bite on upper-income households by letting most of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts expire for families making more than $250,000.

He has also proposed making those cuts permanent for everyone else -- which would cost federal coffers roughly $2 trillion in foregone tax revenue over 10 years.

Just how hard would it be to lean only on the top 5% of taxpayers to pay for everything the country has to do in the next 10 years?

"You'd have to hit them hard, raising their top marginal rates by as much as 30 percentage points," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the non-partisan Tax Policy Center. In other words, instead of a top income tax rate of 39.6%, it would have to kiss up to 70%.

Rather than such draconian measures, experts say the most effective way to attack annual deficits is through a combination of spending cuts and tax hikes.

In theory, having a VAT might let lawmakers lower personal and corporate income tax rates.

But if the rate of the VAT is set relatively low -- say at 5% -- and if the rate of government spending continues apace, that might not raise enough revenue to make lower income tax rates a possibility, said Rudolph Penner, a former director of the Congressional Budget Office and now an institute fellow at the Urban Institute, a public policy research group.
"If we vigorously control spending growth or are willing to tolerate a significant, although lower deficit, there would be something left over for tax cuts," Penner said.

Currently, the notion of a VAT is "a non-starter from a political perspective," said William Gale, co-director of the Tax Policy Center, at a Center for American Progress conference this week.

Democrats say it's regressive, meaning it would hit lower-income people hardest since they tend to spend all of their income on consumption purchases that could be subject to the VAT. Low-tax advocates, such as conservative Republicans, see a VAT -- on top of the current tax system -- as harmful.

But given the depth of the nation's fiscal needs, there aren't many attractive options.

"Tax rates could be raised in the existing system, but that would be extremely inefficient," said Penner in a paper about the VAT. "Tax reform might raise revenues more efficiently, but that is excruciatingly difficult politically."

"That leaves the possibility of a brand new tax, and a VAT is a very likely candidate," he added. 

First Published: October 2, 2009: 7:08 AM ET

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Go ahead you communist marxist traitors - just try it.   
 

shootfighter1

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2009, 09:19:35 AM »
These as-holes refuse to cut spending and help small business.  Unbelieveable.

kcballer

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2009, 09:25:42 AM »
around 50% of the undocumented workers pay taxes 333 around the same amount as american themselves  ;D
Abandon every hope...

Kazan

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2009, 09:31:37 AM »
around 50% of the undocumented workers pay taxes 333 around the same amount as american themselves  ;D


Is that a nice way of saying Illegal's? Why are you guys always looking for a way to justify breaking the law?
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

kcballer

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2009, 09:35:13 AM »

Is that a nice way of saying Illegal's? Why are you guys always looking for a way to justify breaking the law?

I'm not at all.  I'm just stating that 333 is wrong when he says a tax will help illegals as if they are the only group in america.  just more lies from 333 not surprising he finds it hard to tell the truth. 
Abandon every hope...

shootfighter1

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2009, 09:36:05 AM »
Scrap the IRS and go to a flat tax for non-utility items and make people earning under poverty exempt.  Then everyone pays tax above the poverty line.  Big companies and wealthy people with good accountants don't avoid tax, the large number of illegals working off the books pay, visitors pay, and the millions of people who work and don't report their income (tradespeople and others) pay.  Those of us who play by the rules in this country get screwed.

kcballer

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2009, 09:38:56 AM »
Sorry shoot but that's never gonna happen.  Big business will buy off both parties to stop anything like that. 
Abandon every hope...

shootfighter1

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2009, 10:55:19 AM »
kc, I hate greedy corporate as-holes just as much as I dislike people who cheat the system or sap off the system.

Eric15210

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2009, 11:02:20 AM »
I'm sure they will only tax the rich people  ::)

Congress can raise taxes because it can persuade a sizable fraction of the populace that somebody else will pay.


RIP Bob Probert

kcballer

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2009, 11:07:01 AM »
kc, I hate greedy corporate as-holes just as much as I dislike people who cheat the system or sap off the system.

Then you must hate every single american.  Not everyone pays their full tax before deductions.  Aren't you all for tax breaks? If so, how can you justify your stance.  Saying you want everyone to pay tax then screaming when a new tax comes along which may in fact get more people to pay tax.  people buy goods, goods are taxed, people pay tax.
Abandon every hope...

shootfighter1

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2009, 11:28:48 AM »
Your not catching my message (in a couple threads now).  The message is that when you add up all the taxes we pay, overall taxation is too high. Some taxation is necessary, there is logic in a reasonable central government.  The government has grown too big and spends too much and this administration is taking it to the next level.

I don't want any new taxes.  I prefer a flat tax...say 20% (or whatever is determined to operate necessary government) on all goods in this country so everyone pays and those who earn & consume more pay more.  I would love to only pay 1/5th of my wages to taxation.  The reason it won't happen is because liberals will say they need to redistribute wealth so the middle and upper class must pay excessively high rates.  While I agree we don't want to keep increasing the wages of the top .5%, if you applied a flat tax to business and wealthy individuals they couldn't cheat the system either.

I have several friends who are laborers that make at least $50,000/yr.  They report a fraction of that money to the gov.  So, its not just rich people who play the system (through their accountants).  A flat or consumption tax eliminates most of the fraud in our current system.

Colossus_500

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2009, 11:30:38 AM »
Scrap the IRS and go to a flat tax for non-utility items and make people earning under poverty exempt.  Then everyone pays tax above the poverty line.  Big companies and wealthy people with good accountants don't avoid tax, the large number of illegals working off the books pay, visitors pay, and the millions of people who work and don't report their income (tradespeople and others) pay.  Those of us who play by the rules in this country get screwed.
Huckabee was the only candidate who wanted to scrap the IRS

shootfighter1

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2009, 11:31:13 AM »
kc, the democrats are proposing a VAT tax ON TOP of all the other current taxes.  its just a way to continue to justify their outrageous spending.

If we could operate our government on a 20% taxation system and include health coverage for citizens, I may be for it, if the plan made sense.  The point is that the gov takes far too much money from working people already.

GigantorX

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2009, 12:24:50 PM »
Your not catching my message (in a couple threads now).  The message is that when you add up all the taxes we pay, overall taxation is too high. Some taxation is necessary, there is logic in a reasonable central government.  The government has grown too big and spends too much and this administration is taking it to the next level.

I don't want any new taxes.  I prefer a flat tax...say 20% (or whatever is determined to operate necessary government) on all goods in this country so everyone pays and those who earn & consume more pay more.  I would love to only pay 1/5th of my wages to taxation.  The reason it won't happen is because liberals will say they need to redistribute wealth so the middle and upper class must pay excessively high rates.  While I agree we don't want to keep increasing the wages of the top .5%, if you applied a flat tax to business and wealthy individuals they couldn't cheat the system either.

I have several friends who are laborers that make at least $50,000/yr.  They report a fraction of that money to the gov.  So, its not just rich people who play the system (through their accountants).  A flat or consumption tax eliminates most of the fraud in our current system.

The great thing is, even with all the new taxes and surcharges and this and that....this Admin. will keep spending and their will still be huge deficits and gigantic long term debt. Even with all the revenue that would be "created" through new crushing taxes (even stealth ones like a VAT) this Admin. still won't be able to come CLOSE to even think about balancing the budget.

What a fucking joke.

shootfighter1

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2009, 12:35:40 PM »
Its horrendous and insulting.  We can have different social ideologies, but the dems should start listening to their blue dog members as far as fiscal matters.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2009, 02:35:34 PM »
I'm not at all.  I'm just stating that 333 is wrong when he says a tax will help illegals as if they are the only group in america.  just more lies from 333 not surprising he finds it hard to tell the truth. 

 ::)  ::)  ::)

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Re: Democrats preparing a new VAT Tax to close budget. (You lie!)
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2009, 06:18:15 PM »
Huckabee was the only candidate who wanted to scrap the IRS

 Ron Paul wants to scrap the income tax and the IRS but Huckabee wanted to replace the income tax with another tax, the fair tax.


Double click to watch the vid.