No Gran Prix Shows?!?!

[timfogarty]

It's tougher than you think to stage a show overseas...venue location, pricing, sponsor considerations, etc...when you're not actually THERE, it makes it much more challenging.

what does that mean?   IFBB pro shows, whether in the US or not, are always put on by local promoters.  The IFBB only 'sanctions' them.

The Battle of Giants guys seem to be doing quite well in Europe, having had successful shows in Norway, France, UK, and now this year Rome too.  I believe these are stand-alone shows, not part of any big expo.   That means they're able to put on a show based solely on the ticket gate.  IFBB shows use to be that way too.  They need to figure out how to do that again.

[Schmoe Buster]

what does that mean?   IFBB pro shows, whether in the US or not, are always put on by local promoters.  The IFBB only 'sanctions' them.

The Battle of Giants guys seem to be doing quite well in Europe, having had successful shows in Norway, France, UK, and now this year Rome too.  I believe these are stand-alone shows, not part of any big expo.   That means they're able to put on a show based solely on the ticket gate.  IFBB shows use to be that way too.  They need to figure out how to do that again.

get Wayne Demilia back

[Royal Lion]

Chick, is there really no potential for profit in Gran Prix shows?  From an outsiders perspective it seems like there is plenty of interest overseas for post-Olympia shows.  Perhaps there aren't enough promoters willing to take the risk?
It's just a shame that Jay, Dex, Ruhl, Branch, Phil, Kai & Co. get into such great shape and yet won't compete again for many months or even a year. 

[Chick]

what does that mean?   IFBB pro shows, whether in the US or not, are always put on by local promoters.  The IFBB only 'sanctions' them.

The Battle of Giants guys seem to be doing quite well in Europe, having had successful shows in Norway, France, UK, and now this year Rome too.  I believe these are stand-alone shows, not part of any big expo.   That means they're able to put on a show based solely on the ticket gate.  IFBB shows use to be that way too.  They need to figure out how to do that again.

Define "successful"...what were their profit/ loss ratio?  how many paying fans did they have?  What % of money was taken in from sponsors?  What were the costs (i.e.- Venue/ hotel/ purse/ etc)

I'm sure you have this info, as you are quick to point out how they seem to be successful...

So lets hear it

[timfogarty]

Define "successful"...what were their profit/ loss ratio?  how many paying fans did they have?  What % of money was taken in from sponsors?  What were the costs (i.e.- Venue/ hotel/ purse/ etc)

well, I can answer some of those questions.

The Battle of Giants Norway is so successful that they're having a second one this year.  Not sure how I'll record that at musclememory yet.   When Sami won the first one in 2007, the prize money was

1. US $12000
2. 7000
3. 5000
4. 3000
5. 2000
6. 1000

What difference does it make what percentage came from sponsors?  Or the cost of the hotel?  

My contention all along has been that it should be possible to put on an event and not lose money based solely on the ticket gate.  The IFBB promoters try to make things into to big of a weekend.   Rent a theater and the crew to run it.  Rent hotel rooms for the athletes and judges.  Advertise, especially locally.   Rent out a banner or two.  Forget about everything else.  

getbig's ibfasport should be able to tell us more about the logistics of the Rome show, as he's involved with the event.

[karu]

here is a hint for you

canceled shows (tokyo, dubai, joes cup, euro tour)  does not equal

the "bodybuilding is bigger than ever" line of BS that you puppets like to repeat over and over.

If it was "bigger than ever" then there would be enough of a fan base, as their used to be.

Here is a hint for you....The state of pro BB has never rested on whether or not there was a Euro-tour.

They come and go as promoters do...if the economy dictated it (or the fan base/ response/ vendors, etc)...then there would certainly be more shows in Europe...

That said, there are new shows slated for 2010, like the Arizona Pro, 2 more Europa Pro's, Sac pro, and others...

[karu]

forget Tim,

Bobby is interested only in saving face for the IFBB/AMI, he can't respond intelligently to your ideas.

well, I can answer some of those questions.

The Battle of Giants Norway is so successful that they're having a second one this year.  Not sure how I'll record that at musclememory yet.   When Sami one the first one in 2007, the prize money was

1. US $12000
2. 7000
3. 5000
4. 3000
5. 2000
6. 1000

What difference does it make what percentage came from sponsors?  Or the cost of the hotel?   

My contention all along has been that it should be possible to put on an event and not lose money based solely on the ticket gate.  The IFBB promoters try to make things into to big of a weekend.   Rent a theater and the crew to run it.  Rent hotel rooms for the athletes and judges.  Advertise, especially locally.   Rent out a banner or two.  Forget about everything else.   

getbig's ibfasport should be able to tell us more about the logistics of the Rome show, as he's involved with the event.

[Chick]

well, I can answer some of those questions.

The Battle of Giants Norway is so successful that they're having a second one this year.  Not sure how I'll record that at musclememory yet.   When Sami won the first one in 2007, the prize money was

1. US $12000
2. 7000
3. 5000
4. 3000
5. 2000
6. 1000

What difference does it make what percentage came from sponsors?  Or the cost of the hotel?  

My contention all along has been that it should be possible to put on an event and not lose money based solely on the ticket gate.  The IFBB promoters try to make things into to big of a weekend.   Rent a theater and the crew to run it.  Rent hotel rooms for the athletes and judges.  Advertise, especially locally.   Rent out a banner or two.  Forget about everything else.  

getbig's ibfasport should be able to tell us more about the logistics of the Rome show, as he's involved with the event.

The fact that it's being put on for  second year dont mean squat....the PDI had a second year as well.

What difference does it make?  ALL.  If the money being put out is from someones pocket, then taking a substancial loss for a year or two will take its toll, and the very reason you dont see shows for a 3rd or 4th time...if the money is sponsor driven, then its certainly more likely that a show can be around for a while while it gains momentum...this of course, is subject to the turnout/ gate...as sponsors also need to see a return for their dollar. A sparcly attended event will shy companies from coming back, as there is no ROI.

This answers your next comment as to if contests are based "soley" on the gate...they're not..IF there are enough sponsors to cover the up front costs.

I like how you so candidly explain it out...rent out a hall, pay for the rooms...etc, etc...sure, and pay the sanction fee and put up the prize moey, and pay for the awards, and pay the help, and pay the union fees, etc.

If it were that easy, or that profitable....there would be a lot more shows/ promoters.

[timfogarty]

The fact that it's being put on for  second year dont mean squat....the PDI had a second year as well.

the second time in the same year, two shows in Norway this year

this is the same group in europe that did the PDI shows

I like how you so candidly explain it out...rent out a hall, pay for the rooms...etc, etc...sure, and pay the sanction fee and put up the prize moey, and pay for the awards, and pay the help, and pay the union fees, etc.

maybe that's why these Battle of Giant shows are doing well, no over priced sanction fees

[uberman09]

bodybuilding is a niche in north america, its an even smaller niche in europe...

[Schmoe Buster]

as usual Chick chimes in with lame old excuse " the numbers dont add up" yet bodybuilding is as big as ever

[karu]

what happened to "bodybuilding is bigger than ever" ??

I guess in your world, that mantra doesn't apply to canceled shows

The fact that it's being put on for  second year dont mean squat....the PDI had a second year as well.

What difference does it make?  ALL.  If the money being put out is from someones pocket, then taking a substancial loss for a year or two will take its toll, and the very reason you dont see shows for a 3rd or 4th time...if the money is sponsor driven, then its certainly more likely that a show can be around for a while while it gains momentum...this of course, is subject to the turnout/ gate...as sponsors also need to see a return for their dollar. A sparcly attended event will shy companies from coming back, as there is no ROI.

This answers your next comment as to if contests are based "soley" on the gate...they're not..IF there are enough sponsors to cover the up front costs.

I like how you so candidly explain it out...rent out a hall, pay for the rooms...etc, etc...sure, and pay the sanction fee and put up the prize moey, and pay for the awards, and pay the help, and pay the union fees, etc.

If it were that easy, or that profitable....there would be a lot more shows/ promoters.

[medici]

If it costs so much more to run a IFBB Pro show OS why don't the IFBB drop the Huge Sanction fees?

[Chick]

as usual Chick chimes in with lame old excuse " the numbers dont add up" yet bodybuilding is as big as ever

Yeah...what a lame excuse.

The numbers not adding up should be of no consequence...


As for BB being as big as ever, the last two years has seen an increase of numbers of both competing athletes and attendance, shows have been dropped and shows have been added...as they have throughout the years, just business.

Obviously, the concept of Business 101 has you stumped...I suggest you stick with something you pride yourself on...talking nonsense.

[Method101]

It wasnt even a consideration in 08, I would know, as I work with Roin Chang...

The webcasts have nothing to do with the IFBB, it's BB.coms decision to webcast or not based on budget, etc....they elected to webcast less shows this year....not my personal choice, but I am only one voice among many at the front office

Chick the IFBB should be doing the fucking webcasts it's their show.
 

[Chick]

Chick the IFBB should be doing the fucking webcasts it's their show.
 

1. They are not cheap

2. I agree, if the IFBB put on their own shows

[Immortal_Technique]

It's certainly a shame we can't see these guys in a few more shows while they're in shape, including the one here in England.

Tim Fogarty, as an impartial observer you seem quite uninterested in actual facts to do with the profit of certain shows, surely the defining factor of whether they can carry on or not?

Method101, you are famously incredibly stupid.

[Schmoe Buster]

Yeah...what a lame excuse.

The numbers not adding up should be of no consequence...


As for BB being as big as ever, the last two years has seen an increase of numbers of both competing athletes and attendance, shows have been dropped and shows have been added...as they have throughout the years, just business.

Obviously, the concept of Business 101 has you stumped...I suggest you stick with something you pride yourself on...talking nonsense.

The one who talks nonsense is you, you are just full of excuses and one line crap, when people disagree or have a different opinion you just resort to the same lame insults, you are beyond insecure, how many times have you used the line "the numbers dont add up" when someone asks about more shows,masters olympia,grand prix's etc, but yet you use the contradictory line "bodybuilding is bigger than ever", the only thing bigger than ever is your insecurities and need to insult people to make yourself feel special

[Method101]

The one who talks nonsense is you, you are just full of excuses and one line crap, when people disagree or have a different opinion you just resort to the same lame insults, you are beyond insecure, how many times have you used the line "the numbers dont add up" when someone asks about more shows,masters olympia,grand prix's etc, but yet you use the contradictory line "bodybuilding is bigger than ever", the only thing bigger than ever is your insecurities and need to insult people to make yourself feel special

The only thing bigger than ever is Joe Weider's wallet.

[Chick]

The one who talks nonsense is you, you are just full of excuses and one line crap, when people disagree or have a different opinion you just resort to the same lame insults, you are beyond insecure, how many times have you used the line "the numbers dont add up" when someone asks about more shows,masters olympia,grand prix's etc, but yet you use the contradictory line "bodybuilding is bigger than ever", the only thing bigger than ever is your insecurities and need to insult people to make yourself feel special

You're too stupid to even understand the most basic of business...just because BB is "bigger than ever" doesnt mean demographically, that certain areas are suddenly  a cash cow...

There are plenty of places here in the states that the numbers dont add up either...thats why some places work better than others.

If the Masters Olympia was profitable, we would still have it. GP shows come and go as promoters do...if they were making money hand over fist, then they too would still be viable.

The Olympia and Arnold had record numbers this year, as did the USA / NA and soon to be Nationals...I've personally hosted many shows that were sold out or near capacity and the NPC has the most competitors ever...the major supp companies have all reported business up approx  20-25% despite the economy.

I dont need to insult you, your posts speak for themselves

[Schmoe Buster]

You're too stupid to even understand the most basic of business...just because BB is "bigger than ever" doesnt mean demographically, that certain areas are suddenly  a cash cow...

There are plenty of places here in the states that the numbers dont add up either...thats why some places work better than others.

If the Masters Olympia was profitable, we would still have it. GP shows come and go as promoters do...if they were making money hand over fist, then they too would still be viable.

The Olympia and Arnold had record numbers this year, as did the USA / NA and soon to be Nationals...I've personally hosted many shows that were sold out or near capacity and the NPC has the most competitors ever...the major supp companies have all reported business up approx  20-25% despite the economy.

I dont need to insult you, your posts speak for themselves

again Chick the meathead with insults, always calling people,gay,stupid etc

so the 202 showdown is more profitable than a masters showdown? if you are going to let the midgets have a division why not the masters? this is a legit question so i would hope for a real answer not an insult,a question, or a skirting of the issue please!

[timfogarty]

so the 202 showdown is more profitable than a masters showdown? if you are going to let the midgets have a division why not the masters?

its not like you could buy tickets for specific events, like only the women's fitness finals.  You could buy a ticket to the Friday night event: Fitness Olympia Finals, Ms. Olympia Finals and Mr. Olympia Judging.  And you could buy a ticket to the Saturday night event:  Figure Olympia Finals, 202 Showdown and Mr. Olympia Finals.    So how do you determine that a Masters Olympia is not profitable?

[lastrep]

Twice? Not to my knowledge...

It's tougher than you think to stage a show overseas...venue location, pricing, sponsor considerations, etc...when you're not actually THERE, it makes it much more challenging.

Yea.. twice. The first year when the bailed on it but at the same time it was announced that it was going to be on the next year instead (2009). So that makes it shelved twice.

What happened?

[Chick]

its not like you could buy tickets for specific events, like only the women's fitness finals.  You could buy a ticket to the Friday night event: Fitness Olympia Finals, Ms. Olympia Finals and Mr. Olympia Judging.  And you could buy a ticket to the Saturday night event:  Figure Olympia Finals, 202 Showdown and Mr. Olympia Finals.    So how do you determine that a Masters Olympia is not profitable?

Real simple...the Maters O was held seperately for many years and even combined with Jan Tana's shows...it never lived up to the expectations or brought in any additional fan base...thats why it was scrapped to begin with. When they tried to revive it in 06 with the MWC...it didnt generate any additional attendance either, certainly not enough to justify purse and sanction fee....so it was scrapped again.


The 202 has proven itself and makes much more sense as 3/4 of the class winners at the amateur level are eligable for it

[Chick]

again Chick the meathead with insults, always calling people,gay,stupid etc

so the 202 showdown is more profitable than a masters showdown? if you are going to let the midgets have a division why not the masters? this is a legit question so i would hope for a real answer not an insult,a question, or a skirting of the issue please!

Your answer is posted above...



































you're still an idiot