Author Topic: Recent study on protein timing around workouts  (Read 3184 times)

garebear

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2009, 07:51:23 PM »
The real question, Wavelength, is how you stay lean without cardio.
G

Milos_Sarcev

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2009, 08:50:52 AM »

So much for Milos' "empty blood" theory!  ;D

 ::) ::)

Did you read the study?
The effect of 10 wk of protein-supplement timing on strength, power, and body composition was examined in 33 resistance-trained men. Participants were randomly assigned to a protein supplement either provided in the morning and evening (n = 13) or provided immediately before and immediately after workouts (n = 13). In addition, 7 participants agreed to serve as a control group and did not use any protein or other nutritional supplement. During each testing session participants were assessed for strength (one-repetition-maximum [1RM] bench press and squat), power (5 repetitions performed at 80% of 1RM in both the bench press and the squat), and body composition. A significant main effect for all 3 groups in strength improvement was seen in 1RM bench press (120.6 +/- 20.5 kg vs. 125.4 +/- 16.7 at Week 0 and Week 10 testing, respectively) and 1RM squat (154.5 +/- 28.4 kg vs. 169.0 +/- 25.5 at Week 0 and Week 10 testing, respectively).

Now, would you bet your house (providing you have one?) that having SPECIFIC NUTRIENTS in blood - during the training (yes, my supplements would be EXACT FORMULA) will have significant influence on favorable changes in body composition + recovery/glycogen replenishment + athletic performance...

Well, I'll bet both of mine instantly...Find the lab that wants to do it - and I am all in ;)



dyslexic

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2009, 09:22:33 AM »
This was not a "controlled" study.


How many random studies proved to be errant when future "controlled" studies were implemented?


Random people + random study= Bullshit results.

wavelength

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2009, 09:23:33 AM »
The real question, Wavelength, is how you stay lean without cardio.

like everyone through caloric restriction

emn1964

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2009, 09:33:28 AM »
This was not a "controlled" study.


How many random studies proved to be errant when future "controlled" studies were implemented?


Random people + random study= Bullshit results.

yep...as i said before the "study" is not statistically significant AND lacked scientific method.  Prob a study by a couple dumbass grad students who had to do something to get their MS

MMC78

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2009, 10:18:36 AM »
yep...as i said before the "study" is not statistically significant AND lacked scientific method.  Prob a study by a couple dumbass grad students who had to do something to get their MS

You don't have the slightest clue what "statistically significant" means and I'm doubting your understanding of the scientific method.

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2009, 10:27:02 AM »

Now, would you bet your house (providing you have one?) that having SPECIFIC NUTRIENTS in blood - during the training (yes, my supplements would be EXACT FORMULA) will have significant influence on favorable changes in body composition + recovery/glycogen replenishment + athletic performance...


How can anyone critique your formulas, and even if shown effective knowing which part of the formula did what, when you use a proprietary blend?! You can't prove, or even show solid evidence, that your formula is more effective than any old protein/sugar combo, such as chocolate milk. In fact, chocolate milk might be more effective!

emn1964

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2009, 11:16:13 AM »
You don't have the slightest clue what "statistically significant" means and I'm doubting your understanding of the scientific method.

wanna test me genius?

wavelength

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2009, 05:26:07 PM »
How can anyone critique your formulas, and even if shown effective knowing which part of the formula did what, when you use a proprietary blend?! You can't prove, or even show solid evidence, that your formula is more effective than any old protein/sugar combo, such as chocolate milk. In fact, chocolate milk might be more effective!

I agree. Some words from Alan Aragon on the topic:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/an-objective-comparison-of-chocolate-milk-and-surge-recovery.html

and:

Quote from: alan aragon
The benefit of supplemental BCAA on top of a protein-sufficient diet is basically an optimistic hypothesis.

It's not that it's anything harmful or counterproductive, it just hasn't been repeatedly demonstrated in the research as effective when a fair (isonitrogenous) comparator is used.

There's a single study done (the Scivation-funded one that's on its way to JISSN)  that lends support to BCAA supping on top of a preexistent high-protein intake. But, there are obvious limits to a single-study evidence base for any claim.

jr

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2009, 07:19:55 PM »
It makes sense that milk would be superior. Milk has been developed over thousands upon thousands of years of evolution to promote the fastest mass gains in growing mammals.

garebear

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2009, 01:17:36 AM »
It makes sense that milk would be superior. Milk has been developed over thousands upon thousands of years of evolution to promote the fastest mass gains in growing mammals.
It would be best if we could get our mothers to use the breast pump still.

Think how genetically tailored that liquid is, just for you.
G

Captain Equipoise

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2009, 01:44:51 AM »
::) ::)

Did you read the study?
The effect of 10 wk of protein-supplement timing on strength, power, and body composition was examined in 33 resistance-trained men. Participants were randomly assigned to a protein supplement either provided in the morning and evening (n = 13) or provided immediately before and immediately after workouts (n = 13). In addition, 7 participants agreed to serve as a control group and did not use any protein or other nutritional supplement. During each testing session participants were assessed for strength (one-repetition-maximum [1RM] bench press and squat), power (5 repetitions performed at 80% of 1RM in both the bench press and the squat), and body composition. A significant main effect for all 3 groups in strength improvement was seen in 1RM bench press (120.6 +/- 20.5 kg vs. 125.4 +/- 16.7 at Week 0 and Week 10 testing, respectively) and 1RM squat (154.5 +/- 28.4 kg vs. 169.0 +/- 25.5 at Week 0 and Week 10 testing, respectively).

Now, would you bet your house (providing you have one?) that having SPECIFIC NUTRIENTS in blood - during the training (yes, my supplements would be EXACT FORMULA) will have significant influence on favorable changes in body composition + recovery/glycogen replenishment + athletic performance...

Well, I'll bet both of mine instantly...Find the lab that wants to do it - and I am all in ;)




Hey Milos, where are those pro cycles you promised us 2 months ago ?
;)

closeline

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2009, 03:30:14 AM »
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19478342
(posted by signature166 on BB.com)

Hoffman JR, Ratamess NA, Tranchina CP, Rashti SL, Kang J, Faigenbaum AD.
Department of Health and Exercise Science, The College of New Jersey, Ewing, NJ, USA.

The effect of 10 wk of protein-supplement timing on strength, power, and body composition was examined in 33 resistance-trained men. Participants were randomly assigned to a protein supplement either provided in the morning and evening (n = 13) or provided immediately before and immediately after workouts (n = 13). In addition, 7 participants agreed to serve as a control group and did not use any protein or other nutritional supplement. During each testing session participants were assessed for strength (one-repetition-maximum [1RM] bench press and squat), power (5 repetitions performed at 80% of 1RM in both the bench press and the squat), and body composition. A significant main effect for all 3 groups in strength improvement was seen in 1RM bench press (120.6 +/- 20.5 kg vs. 125.4 +/- 16.7 at Week 0 and Week 10 testing, respectively) and 1RM squat (154.5 +/- 28.4 kg vs. 169.0 +/- 25.5 at Week 0 and Week 10 testing, respectively). However, no significant between-groups interactions were seen in 1RM squat or 1RM bench press. Significant main effects were also seen in both upper and lower body peak and mean power, but no significant differences were seen between groups. No changes in body mass or percent body fat were seen in any of the groups. Results indicate that the time of protein-supplement ingestion in resistance-trained athletes during a 10-wk training program does not provide any added benefit to strength, power, or body-composition changes.

PMID: 19478342 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

nothing new in here

eat every 2-3 hours quality carbs + protein
nothing else matters
pre and past workout supplementation was invented by the industrie to sell supps
maybe taking a shake after workout not to stress the organism wiht a "heavy" meal
eat healthy not fancy

wavelength

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2009, 03:36:52 AM »
nothing new in here
eat every 2-3 hours quality carbs + protein
nothing else matters
pre and past workout supplementation was invented by the industrie to sell supps
maybe a shake after workout not to stress the organism wiht a "heavy" meal

Well there are studies claiming the opposite too, so I'm not fully decided. I couldn't see a significant difference.

Most studies on meal frequency show no advantage of more frequent meals BTW, e.g.:

- Bortz WM, et al. Weight loss and frequency of feeding. New England Journal of Medicine, Feb 17, 1966; 274: 376-379.

- Young CM, et al. Metabolic effects of meal frequency on normal young men. Journal of the American Dietetic Association, Oct, 1972; 61: 391-398.

- Sudha Wadhwa P, et al. Metabolic consequences of feeding frequency in man. American
Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Aug, 1973; 26: 823-830.

- Dallosso HM, et al. Feeding frequency and energy balance in adult males. Human Nutrition.
Clinical Nutrition, 1982; 36C: 25-39.

- Verboeket-van de Venne WP, et al. Effect of the pattern of food intake on human energy
metabolism. British Journal of Nutrition, Jul, 1993; 70: 103-115.

- Arnold LM, et al. Effect of isoenergetic intake of three or nine meals on plasma lipoproteins and glucose metabolism. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Mar, 1993; 57: 446-451.

A more recent study even suggests a slight advantage of 1 meal a day on body composition:

- K. Stote, D. Baer, K. Spears, et al. A controlled trial of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction in healthy, normal-weight, middle-aged adults. Am J Clin Nutr, Apr, 2007; 85: 981-988.

closeline

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Re: Recent study on protein timing around workouts
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2009, 03:40:25 AM »
Well there are studies claiming the opposite too, so I'm not fully decided. I couldn't see a significant difference.

Most studies on meal frequency show no advantage of more frequent meals BTW, e.g.:

- Bortz WM, et al. Weight loss and frequency of feeding. New England Journal of Medicine, Feb 17, 1966; 274: 376-379.

- Young CM, et al. Metabolic effects of meal frequency on normal young men. Journal of the American Dietetic Association, Oct, 1972; 61: 391-398.

- Sudha Wadhwa P, et al. Metabolic consequences of feeding frequency in man. American
Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Aug, 1973; 26: 823-830.

- Dallosso HM, et al. Feeding frequency and energy balance in adult males. Human Nutrition.
Clinical Nutrition, 1982; 36C: 25-39.

- Verboeket-van de Venne WP, et al. Effect of the pattern of food intake on human energy
metabolism. British Journal of Nutrition, Jul, 1993; 70: 103-115.

- Arnold LM, et al. Effect of isoenergetic intake of three or nine meals on plasma lipoproteins and glucose metabolism. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Mar, 1993; 57: 446-451.

A more recent study even suggests a slight advantage of 1 meal a day on body composition:

- K. Stote, D. Baer, K. Spears, et al. A controlled trial of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction in healthy, normal-weight, middle-aged adults. Am J Clin Nutr, Apr, 2007; 85: 981-988.

well frequency is a point for sure

if i were a pro athlete and having someone for all the shitty cooking a would rather go with 1,5-2h (but thats not realistic for someone with a job)