Author Topic: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"  (Read 19774 times)

headhuntersix

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #150 on: October 11, 2009, 04:13:26 PM »
I can't I'm too busy pulling parts of ur ridiculous argument out of my treads..its kinda messy.
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The Luke

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #151 on: October 11, 2009, 04:25:28 PM »
I can't I'm too busy pulling parts of ur ridiculous argument out of my treads..its kinda messy.

Yes... I was owned by your chronic ignorance and inability to research.


The Luke

headhuntersix

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #152 on: October 11, 2009, 04:34:16 PM »
I don't have to prove anything..u point was ridiculous and waaaay off topic and again u lost.
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The Luke

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #153 on: October 11, 2009, 04:45:54 PM »
I don't have to prove anything..u point was ridiculous and waaaay off topic and again u lost.

So you're admitting you can't prove your counter argument?

I agree, your entire counter argument was predicated on your own ignorance and inability to research anything. Probably best to admit defeat, and slink away.


The Luke

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #154 on: October 11, 2009, 04:54:04 PM »

headhuntersix

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #155 on: October 11, 2009, 04:56:18 PM »
First off...the topic was gays in the military....the second part of which u know nothing about, I have no first hand knowledge of the gay part or ur preference for it. My counter argument was made several days ago and solid. U provided nothing to make ur case..no articles...not even a cut and paste job. U were defeated as u were before and u insist on dragging this on. As Kazan or Skip called u...a psuedo-intellectual douchbag..u have no leg to stand on.
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headhuntersix

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blacken700

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #157 on: October 11, 2009, 05:06:09 PM »

Associated Press / July 8, 2008
WASHINGTON - Congress should repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" law because the presence of gays in the military is unlikely to undermine the ability to fight and win, according to a new study released by a California-based research center.

The study was conducted by four retired military officers, including the three-star Air Force lieutenant general who in early 1993 was tasked with implementing President Clinton's policy that the military stop questioning recruits on their sexual orientation.

"Evidence shows that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly is unlikely to pose any significant risk to morale, good order, discipline, or cohesion," the officers stated.

To support its contention, the panel points to the British and Israeli militaries, where it says gay people serve openly without hurting the effectiveness of combat operations.

Undermining unit cohesion was a determining factor when Congress passed the 1993 law, intended to keep the military from asking recruits their sexual orientation. In turn, service members can't say they are gay or bisexual, engage in homosexual activity, or marry a member of the same sex.

Supporters of the ban contend there is still no empirical evidence that allowing gays to serve openly won't hurt combat effectiveness.

"The issue is trust and confidence" among members of a unit, said Lieutenant Colonel Robert Maginnis, who retired in 1993 after working on the issue for the Army. When some people with a different sexual orientation are "in a close combat environment, it results in a lack of trust," he said.

The study was sponsored by the Michael D. Palm Center at the University of California at Santa Barbara, which said it picked the panel members to portray a bipartisan representation of the different service branches. According to its website, the Palm Center "is committed to keeping researchers, journalists and the general public informed of the latest developments in the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy debate."

Two of the officers on the panel have endorsed Democratic candidates since leaving the military - Army Lieutenant General Robert Gard, who supports Barack Obama, and Marine Corps General Hugh Aitken, who backed Clinton in 1996.

Air Force Lieutenant General Robert Minter Alexander, a Republican, was assigned in 1993 to a high-level panel established by the Defense Department to examine the issue of gays in the military. At one point, he signed an order that prohibited the military from asking a recruit's sexual orientation.

Alexander said at the time he was simply trying to carry out the president's orders and not take a position. But he now believes the law should be repealed because it assumes the existence of gays in the military is disruptive to units even though cultural attitudes are changing.

©

The Luke

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #158 on: October 11, 2009, 05:18:17 PM »
Blacken,

You seem to be pretty level-headed, is it common for a discussion on this board to degenerate into entrenched ignorance?

I can't believe the basis of HH6's argument is that he doesn't know anything about the Spartans and isn't able to research them? How can someone think this is a "winning" viewpoint?

Have you seen this before?


The Luke

headhuntersix

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #159 on: October 11, 2009, 05:21:10 PM »
Ah Luke...thats wasn't my argument..an argument u lost by the way. Don't ever put words in my mouth ok. Blacken is a lib so u guys can go jerk each other off after this. We can go round and round on military history and u will get smoked like u did on ur last military thread. U had no idea what the Spartan view was on homosexuality and combat formations..in fact u still have no idea what the hell I'm talking about.
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blacken700

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #160 on: October 11, 2009, 05:48:28 PM »
ITS GOING TO GET OVERTURED SO GET OVER IT

headhuntersix

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #161 on: October 11, 2009, 05:55:21 PM »
Dude..we have'nt even started yet. barry will fail at that just like he fails every day.
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The Luke

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #162 on: October 11, 2009, 06:04:22 PM »
U had no idea what the Spartan view was on homosexuality and combat formations..in fact u still have no idea what the hell I'm talking about.

"Sparta" and "agoge"... Google that shit.

If you want the low-down on the sexual/homosexual side of things try to avoid highly censored encyclopedias such as wikipedia and do some more in-depth reading by authors writing for the adult/college audience.

Remember, when you are researching the information you had to admit you didn't have any knowledge of, and learning about the hyper-militarised Spartans and their weird attitudes towards homosexuality... remember to keep reminding yourself that you know so much more than me about everything. That seems to be the way you convince yourself of your all that delusional bullshit.


The Luke 

tonymctones

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #163 on: October 11, 2009, 06:17:26 PM »
"Sparta" and "agoge"... Google that shit.

If you want the low-down on the sexual/homosexual side of things try to avoid highly censored encyclopedias such as wikipedia and do some more in-depth reading by authors writing for the adult/college audience.

Remember, when you are researching the information you had to admit you didn't have any knowledge of, and learning about the hyper-militarised Spartans and their weird attitudes towards homosexuality... remember to keep reminding yourself that you know so much more than me about everything. That seems to be the way you convince yourself of your all that delusional bullshit.


The Luke 
what was the point of bringing up sparta again?  ;)

headhuntersix

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #164 on: October 11, 2009, 06:25:42 PM »
He likes the cock.....thats his point.
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The Luke

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #165 on: October 11, 2009, 06:48:30 PM »
what was the point of bringing up sparta again?  ;)

...just answering HH6, read the thread.

Again and again I have to explain to you that when I quote another persons post in my response that means I'm responding to what they wrote.


The Luke

tonymctones

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #166 on: October 11, 2009, 06:52:59 PM »
...just answering HH6, read the thread.

Again and again I have to explain to you that when I quote another persons post in my response that means I'm responding to what they wrote.


The Luke
actually fucktard your referencing sparta was in response to my post as in you quoted my post at the beginning of this exercise in idiocy...

so again why exactly did you bring up sparta?

try and keep up brainchild

while youre at it where did you study and what was the field you studied in?

Can you name the one civilization in human history that had mandatory, universal, enforced homosexuality among its soldiers?

Answer that, if you dare...  

The Luke
just in case you want to try and wiggle out of it again...this is the first post you made in this thread click on it and see who you quoted in that post

try understanding your own arguement first....

The Luke

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #167 on: October 11, 2009, 07:16:11 PM »
tonymctones,


Imagine a discussion regarding gays in the military, prompted by news that America's longstanding "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy may be coming to an end. Someone, hoping to enlighten the atmosphere of hysterical homophobia, asks the following question:

Question:
Can you name the one civilization in human history that had mandatory, universal, enforced homosexuality among its soldiers?

Answer: The Spartans


For most readers, the point is obvious, being as the Spartans were a legendary fighting force and undoubtedly the most militarised society in human history, their name is synonymous with bravery and an almost quasi-religious soldiering zealotry.

So obviously, this simple question (which I assumed would be rhetoric) and answer (which I assumed everyone would know), makes blatantly ridiculous any argument that gay soldiers in any way hinder an armys morale. 

Simple. Direct. Yet educational. That's how you make a point: a succinct observation that completely invalidates a stupid argument.


If you didn't know this... didn't get the reference... and still don't understand the point... then I'm very sorry, but I can't fix stoopid.


The Luke

OzmO

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #168 on: October 11, 2009, 07:27:00 PM »
tonymctones,


Imagine a discussion regarding gays in the military, prompted by news that America's longstanding "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy may be coming to an end. Someone, hoping to enlighten the atmosphere of hysterical homophobia, asks the following question:

Question:
Can you name the one civilization in human history that had mandatory, universal, enforced homosexuality among its soldiers?

Answer: The Spartans


For most readers, the point is obvious, being as the Spartans were a legendary fighting force and undoubtedly the most militarised society in human history, their name is synonymous with bravery and an almost quasi-religious soldiering zealotry.

So obviously, this simple question (which I assumed would be rhetoric) and answer (which I assumed everyone would know), makes blatantly ridiculous any argument that gay soldiers in any way hinder an armys morale. 

Simple. Direct. Yet educational. That's how you make a point: a succinct observation that completely invalidates a stupid argument.


If you didn't know this... didn't get the reference... and still don't understand the point... then I'm very sorry, but I can't fix stoopid.


The Luke

Wasn't homosexuality a common and accepted practice in ancient Greece?  If that's the case then open gays in Sparta's military wouldn't any big deal and therefore the logic of your argument may be empty.   In America's present military homosexuality is NOT accepted and, highlighted by the gay marriage law failures, it's not exactly accepted country wide.  So "open gays in the military" will cause some moral issues, but they will be temporary as they will have to get over it because it will happen one way or another. 

tonymctones

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #169 on: October 11, 2009, 07:43:30 PM »
tonymctones,


Imagine a discussion regarding gays in the military, prompted by news that America's longstanding "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy may be coming to an end. Someone, hoping to enlighten the atmosphere of hysterical homophobia, asks the following question:

Question:
Can you name the one civilization in human history that had mandatory, universal, enforced homosexuality among its soldiers?

Answer: The Spartans


For most readers, the point is obvious, being as the Spartans were a legendary fighting force and undoubtedly the most militarised society in human history, their name is synonymous with bravery and an almost quasi-religious soldiering zealotry.

So obviously, this simple question (which I assumed would be rhetoric) and answer (which I assumed everyone would know), makes blatantly ridiculous any argument that gay soldiers in any way hinder an armys morale. 

Simple. Direct. Yet educational. That's how you make a point: a succinct observation that completely invalidates a stupid argument.


If you didn't know this... didn't get the reference... and still don't understand the point... then I'm very sorry, but I can't fix stoopid.


The Luke
wow youre off your meds arent you?

you spent 2 pages saying that your point about sparta was not about their military prowess  ??? but now you say it is and that b/c they were such a great military and allowed homosexuality within their ranks we shouldnt have a problem with it?

again by that logic the US military shouldnt allow gays to openly serve as i think its quite obvious we have the greatest military to have ever walked this earth...and we dont allow gays to openly serve

let me break down your arguement for you luke you are using sparta in the context of military prowess and them allowing homosexuality to bolster your ignorant arguement. That well "hey it didnt hurt the spartans, so why would it hurt the US"

fact of the matter is the US is the best military that has ever been so by your logic the fact we dont allow gays in the military carries more weight then your idiotic arguement.

tonymctones

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #170 on: October 11, 2009, 07:45:41 PM »
Wasn't homosexuality a common and accepted practice in ancient Greece?  If that's the case then open gays in Sparta's military wouldn't any big deal and therefore the logic of your argument may be empty.   In America's present military homosexuality is NOT accepted and, highlighted by the gay marriage law failures, it's not exactly accepted country wide.  So "open gays in the military" will cause some moral issues, but they will be temporary as they will have to get over it because it will happen one way or another. 

I was going to bring that up later

but apparently luke doesnt understand his own arguement

The Luke

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #171 on: October 11, 2009, 07:55:51 PM »
Wasn't homosexuality a common and accepted practice in ancient Greece?  If that's the case then open gays in Sparta's military wouldn't any big deal and therefore the logic of your argument may be empty.   In America's present military homosexuality is NOT accepted and, highlighted by the gay marriage law failures, it's not exactly accepted country wide.  So "open gays in the military" will cause some moral issues, but they will be temporary as they will have to get over it because it will happen one way or another. 

Good point.

But my main point was that Sparta is the only example we have in human history of a society that actualy enforced mandatory homosexuality among its soldiers. The most extreme possible case of gays in the military and we have the history of it... it actually happened.

They also happen to be the most militarised society in human history and historians rank the Spartans as the most feared fighting force the world has ever known. No other nation can boast of such military prestige... the batte of Thermopylae is still regarded as the greatest demonstration of military prowess ever seen.

So if the gayest soldiers in history, were also the bravest and best soldiers ever known... worrying about gays in the military or their effect on morale seems pretty misguided.

By comparison, there has never been a wholly heterosexal army... maybe it's the heteros like us who can't fight worth a damn? (No homo)


Thats the only point I was making... I never intended enaging with the jingoists or the third-grade-reading comprehension crowd, but if they want to embarrass themselves I won't let them bully me off this topic. Shouting people down has been passing for debate for too long on his board.

Hope the inane arguments haven't ruined your enjoyment of reading this thread Ozmo?


The Luke

tonymctones

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #172 on: October 11, 2009, 08:05:06 PM »
but again luke by that same logic the US doesnt and they are by and large the best military to have ever been formed so that in itself by your logic would say that no army should allow gays to serve...

you see luke logic is applied across all situations thats what makes it logical

you cite their culture and society but fail to acknowledge that infantcide was practiced and they accomplished the same things so should we institute infantcide as well?

after all it doesnt seem to have hurt their morale right?

OzmO

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #173 on: October 11, 2009, 08:20:32 PM »
Good point.

But my main point was that Sparta is the only example we have in human history of a society that actualy enforced mandatory homosexuality among its soldiers. The most extreme possible case of gays in the military and we have the history of it... it actually happened.

They also happen to be the most militarised society in human history and historians rank the Spartans as the most feared fighting force the world has ever known. No other nation can boast of such military prestige... the batte of Thermopylae is still regarded as the greatest demonstration of military prowess ever seen.

So if the gayest soldiers in history, were also the bravest and best soldiers ever known... worrying about gays in the military or their effect on morale seems pretty misguided.

By comparison, there has never been a wholly heterosexal army... maybe it's the heteros like us who can't fight worth a damn? (No homo)


Thats the only point I was making... I never intended enaging with the jingoists or the third-grade-reading comprehension crowd, but if they want to embarrass themselves I won't let them bully me off this topic. Shouting people down has been passing for debate for too long on his board.

Hope the inane arguments haven't ruined your enjoyment of reading this thread Ozmo?


The Luke

I've only read a few bits, but what i've read is enjoyable.  People get so mad at you.  lol.

To me, this argument might be very similar to what the arguments where regarding integration in the military in the 50's.  That issue was also affected by social and cultural norms.  And, in time, everyone got over themselves.

I think bringing up Sparta is better  for the "gay men can fight as well as straight men" argument.  Which would be no argument.

Phalanx formations must have been very arousing for them.


tonymctones

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Re: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military"
« Reply #174 on: October 11, 2009, 08:25:06 PM »
I've only read a few bits, but what i've read is enjoyable.  People get so mad at you.  lol.

To me, this argument might be very similar to what the arguments where regarding integration in the military in the 50's.  That issue was also affected by social and cultural norms.  And, in time, everyone got over themselves.

I think bringing up Sparta is better  for the "gay men can fight as well as straight men" argument.  Which would be no argument.

Phalanx formations must have been very arousing for them.
LOL the point was that luke seemed to miss is that this isnt about whether gays can fight as good as straights. We all just went with his idiotic spartan analogy so we could ridicule his idiot ass.

The problem with gays in the military is privacy rights oz