Author Topic: CNN Anderson Cooper's Heated Debate: "Gays In Military" (Read 19657 times)

tonymctones · « **Reply #175 on:** October 11, 2009, 08:28:12 PM »

as a matter of fact oz i dont think anyone in this thread said that gays cant make good soldiers...

The Luke · « **Reply #176 on:** October 11, 2009, 08:41:51 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on October 11, 2009, 08:20:32 PM

I've only read a few bits, but what i've read is enjoyable. People get so mad at you. lol.

...it's a gift.

What I really enjoy are the Jerry-Springer-Audience type poster... they make a moral decision instantaeously.
"Yeah, I left her at the altar Jerry" loud boos... "But dat bitch a hoe, Jerry" huge applause.

But my favourite has to be the ones who can't articuate their own argument, because they've never thought it through... it's just a learned reflex, not a proper opinion. Tonymctones just cracks me up. No comprehension, no logic, no reasoning and he refuses to read other peoples posts properly.

The Luke

headhuntersix · « **Reply #177 on:** October 11, 2009, 09:09:54 PM »

Quote from: The Luke on October 11, 2009, 07:55:51 PM

Good point.

But my main point was that Sparta is the only example we have in human history of a society that actualy enforced mandatory homosexuality among its soldiers. The most extreme possible case of gays in the military and we have the history of it... it actually happened.

They also happen to be the most militarised society in human history and historians rank the Spartans as the most feared fighting force the world has ever known. No other nation can boast of such military prestige... the batte of Thermopylae is still regarded as the greatest demonstration of military prowess ever seen.

So if the gayest soldiers in history, were also the bravest and best soldiers ever known... worrying about gays in the military or their effect on morale seems pretty misguided.

By comparison, there has never been a wholly heterosexal army... maybe it's the heteros like us who can't fight worth a damn? (No homo)

Thats the only point I was making... I never intended enaging with the jingoists or the third-grade-reading comprehension crowd, but if they want to embarrass themselves I won't let them bully me off this topic. Shouting people down has been passing for debate for too long on his board.

Hope the inane arguments haven't ruined your enjoyment of reading this thread Ozmo?

The Luke

I don't know Luke..I've sat through maybe a million times more military history classes and I've never heard that. They were great for their time but beyond that the rest is bullshit.

headhuntersix · « **Reply #178 on:** October 11, 2009, 09:11:41 PM »

And speak for urself..I've fought just fine. Don'[t try and pretend ur now cool because we're not hammering u. Ur point was stupid. This thread derailment has nothing to do with the original point. Oh and quote ur sources.

The Luke · « **Reply #179 on:** October 11, 2009, 09:14:51 PM »

Quote from: headhuntersix on October 11, 2009, 09:09:54 PM

I don't know Luke..I've sat through maybe a million times more military history classes and I've never heard that. They were great for their time but beyond that the rest is bullshit.

...you don't know enough about them. You've already admitted you had to Google them... just how much do can you know about history if you've never even heard of one of the most extreme civilizations ever known.

Get a proper classical education.

The more you read, the more you'll agree with me.

The Luke

headhuntersix · « **Reply #180 on:** October 11, 2009, 09:27:00 PM »

Luke....u have no idea what the hell ur talking about in any of these threads do u. I didn't say I had not heard of the Spartans...I have the quote from Marine Infantry school on my wall. I studied classical warfare extensively in school. Unless u went to a military academy..i'll bet u haven't. U derail because u can't argue the main points.

Go tell the Spartans, thou who passest by,
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie

Dude u really have a high opinion or urself. But if u care to debate military history, really debate..not say ur gonna debate it and then decide to discuss the weather in 1812..we're all happy to do it.

the_steevo_uk · « **Reply #181 on:** October 12, 2009, 04:40:17 AM »

Fuck metheres a lot of bullsh1t been written on here. Since my first degree was in classics we should straighten this out...

THE SPARTANS WERE NOT REQUIRED TO BE GAY...THEY WERE NOT GAY, AND SPARTAN SOCIETY ONLY VERY RARELY ACCEPTED THE IDEA OF HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS.

right said it. Luke the people you are thinking of is the Sacred band of Thebes, the idea being that one would fight harder for their lover than their friend, which for the most part was proved correct since the sacred band was actually an excellent fighting unit. The Spartans whilst aware of some homosexuality between older men and boys, (though it considered more of a mentoring role than a sexual role) generally did not encourage it, and it was certainly not to be talked about in public...unlike say Athens.

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #182 on:** October 12, 2009, 04:56:06 AM »

Quote from: the_steevo_uk on October 12, 2009, 04:40:17 AM

Fuck metheres a lot of bullsh1t been written on here. Since my first degree was in classics we should straighten this out...

THE SPARTANS WERE NOT REQUIRED TO BE GAY...THEY WERE NOT GAY, AND SPARTAN SOCIETY ONLY VERY RARELY ACCEPTED THE IDEA OF HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS.

right said it. Luke the people you are thinking of is the Sacred band of Thebes, the idea being that one would fight harder for their lover than their friend, which for the most part was proved correct since the sacred band was actually an excellent fighting unit. The Spartans whilst aware of some homosexuality between older men and boys, (though it considered more of a mentoring role than a sexual role) generally did not encourage it, and it was certainly not to be talked about in public...unlike say Athens.

Thank you for that info. I hope this puts a rest to the nonsense that has been eminating mostly from one poster on this thread.

headhuntersix · « **Reply #183 on:** October 12, 2009, 06:48:55 AM »

I think I posted the same info but since stevo is from the UK...dipshit might listen to him.

MCWAY · « **Reply #184 on:** October 12, 2009, 07:38:20 AM »

What I don't get is all the arguing about all the alleged Arab translators being lost, because they're homos.

As I said earlier, I don't care if your peeling potatoes or translating Muhammad El-Kaboom's tongue in to English, if you signed the dotted line (agreeing to abide by the DoD Homosexual Conduct policy) and breach it, you're done.

Every service member has to review that policy, before he get sworn into service. And, if I'm not mistaken, HH6, of all the disciplinary cases in the military, gay folks getting the boot is among the LOWEST in the Armed Forces.

We lose FAR more troops to drug and alcohol abuse.

headhuntersix · « **Reply #185 on:** October 12, 2009, 07:45:43 AM »

I don't know the rates but it's not number one or even close. I had a gay soldier. He was stop losted. When he came out we did what we had to do by the regs. The Jag lawyer who worked us through the process was a Reservist who worked in the Penatagon as a DOD lawyer. She had delt with alot of these cases. Basically this guy would end up staying in the Army almost 6 months longer if he went through the "Don't ask" discharge investigation. If one of the gay groups got wind of it, they would drag it out up to 18 months. Or he could retract his statement and say he was confused, do his job and maintain all his benefits and get out within 30 days of redeployment. Once we layed it all out for him he recanted. It was no surprise that he was gay. I told him to do his job, it was my call to bring charges or not. He did his job and got out. If u join u know the rules, if u don't want to abide by them, don't join.

OzmO · « **Reply #186 on:** October 12, 2009, 08:24:26 AM »

Quote from: tonymctones on October 11, 2009, 08:25:06 PM

LOL the point was that luke seemed to miss is that this isnt about whether gays can fight as good as straights. We all just went with his idiotic spartan analogy so we could ridicule his idiot ass.

The problem with gays in the military is privacy rights oz

I remember having a discussion about this hear a year or so ago. It was brought up that other standing armies have a open policy. How do they deal with privacy issues?

tonymctones · « **Reply #187 on:** October 12, 2009, 08:35:00 AM »

Quote from: OzmO on October 12, 2009, 08:24:26 AM

I remember having a discussion about this hear a year or so ago. It was brought up that other standing armies have a open policy. How do they deal with privacy issues?

id be interested in hearing about how they handle it as well

you also have to take into account social and cultural norms and laws

alot of countries are alot more open about nudity than we are shit i remember when i was in japan they had brief nudity on regular tv not like porn but just everyday nudity.

Under our law system that would infringe upon the privacy rights of soldiers just like me going into a female locker room and changing in there.

Eyeball Chambers · « **Reply #188 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:36:36 AM »

How about just keeping your sexual orientation to yourself and doing your fucking job?

MCWAY · « **Reply #189 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:45:51 AM »

Quote from: RPF on October 12, 2009, 10:36:36 AM

How about just keeping your sexual orientation to yourself and doing your fucking job?

I heard that the number of gay soldiers took a huge spike, when deployments to Iraq went up.

Eyeball Chambers · « **Reply #190 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:47:11 AM »

Quote from: MCWAY on October 12, 2009, 10:45:51 AM

I heard that the number of gay soldiers took a huge spike, when deployments to Iraq went up.

Why? I don't get it?

MCWAY · « **Reply #191 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:50:00 AM »

Quote from: RPF on October 12, 2009, 10:47:11 AM

Why? I don't get it?

HH6 does!!

Soul Crusher · « **Reply #192 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:50:55 AM »

Quote from: MCWAY on October 12, 2009, 10:50:00 AM

HH6 does!!

Probably to get out of deployment.

Eyeball Chambers · « **Reply #193 on:** October 12, 2009, 10:52:14 AM »

Quote from: 333386 on October 12, 2009, 10:50:55 AM

Probably to get out of deployment.

He said took a huge spike? Doesn't that mean an increase?

Government_Controlled · « **Reply #194 on:** October 13, 2009, 05:54:06 AM »

Quote from: The Luke on October 11, 2009, 07:55:51 PM

But my main point was that Sparta is the only example we have in human history of a society that actualy enforced mandatory homosexuality among its soldiers. The most extreme possible case of gays in the military and we have the history of it... it actually happened.

They also happen to be the most militarised society in human history and historians rank the Spartans as the most feared fighting force the world has ever known. No other nation can boast of such military prestige... the batte of Thermopylae is still regarded as the greatest demonstration of military prowess ever seen.

The Luke

No wonder the world has been in shambles since their arrival! With this being the case, there is no HOPE for peace. I can see why we as a world society have such detrimental issues.

GC/DEA_AGENT