Parents in prayer death get six months jail time.

[2ND COMING]

WAUSAU, Wis. – A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seek medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced Tuesday to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death.

Dale and Leilani Neumann could have received up to 25 years in prison for the March 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, who died of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes. They were convicted of second-degree reckless homicide in separate trials earlier this year.

In sentencing the couple, Marathon County Circuit Court Judge Vincent Howard said the Neumanns were "very good people, raising their family who made a bad decision, a reckless decision."

"God probably works through other people," Howard told the parents, "some of them doctors."

The case was believed to be the first of its kind in Wisconsin involving faith healing in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide.

Prosecutors contended the Neumanns recklessly killed their youngest of four children by ignoring obvious symptoms of severe illness as she became too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk. They said the couple had a legal duty to take their daughter to a doctor but relied totally on prayer for healing. The girl, known as Kara, died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone finally called 911 after she stopped breathing.

"We are here today because to some, you made Kara a martyr to your faith," Howard told the parents.

In testimony at trial and in videotaped interviews with police, the parents said they believe healing comes from God and that they never expected their daughter to die.

During the sentencing hearing, Leilani Neumann, 41, told the judge her family is loving and forgiving and has wrongly been portrayed as religious zealots.

"I do not regret trusting truly in the Lord for my daughter's health," she said. "Did we know she had a fatal illness? No. Did we act to the best of our knowledge? Yes."

Dale Neumann, 47, read from the Bible and told the judge that he loved his daughter.

"I am guilty of trusting my Lord's wisdom completely. ... Guilty of asking for heavenly intervention. Guilty of following Jesus Christ when the whole world does not understand. Guilty of obeying my God," he said.

The Neumanns held each other as Howard sentenced them, a Bible on the table nearby and their three teenage children sitting behind them in the front row of the courtroom.

Prosecutors had asked for a three-year suspended prison sentence and 10 years probation. Defense attorneys had sought four years probation.

The judge ordered the couple to serve one month in jail each year for six years so the parents can "think about Kara and what God wants you to learn from this." One parent would serve the term in March and the other in September. Howard stayed the jail sentences while the couple's convictions are appealed.

As part of their probation, the parents must allow a public health nurse to examine their two underage children at least once every three months and must immediately take their children to a doctor for any serious injuries.

Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson said justice was served by the sentences, but he was disappointed the parents never said they were sorry for what happened.

"They allowed Kara to die because they got themselves too caught up in the misguided belief that they were being tested by God," the prosecutor said.

Dale Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, told reporters the couple continues to trust in God.

"We live by faith," he said after the sentencing. "We are completely content with what the Lord has allowed to come down, but he is not done yet."

in the end, logic and justice prevails.

[pedro01]

The judge ordered the couple to serve one month in jail each year for six years so the parents can "think about Kara and what God wants you to learn from this."

    

[2ND COMING]

how do the religious posters feel about this 

[Butterbean]

how do the religious posters feel about this 

I wouldn't consider myself "religious" but I do believe in Jesus as my Savior and believe the bible to be true.  To me, "religion" is more of a works to get to heaven type of thing.


Do you know what belief system/denomination these people followed and/or what scriptures they referred to when they refused to get the girl medical help?

I can't think of any scriptures that these people would interpret as being against taking this poor girl to a doctor.

There is a group called Christian Science that I think do not believe in using doctors.   I do not believe that is biblically correct.

[2ND COMING]

I wouldn't consider myself "religious" but I do believe in Jesus as my Savior and believe the bible to be true.  To me, "religion" is more of a works to get to heaven type of thing.


Do you know what belief system/denomination these people followed and/or what scriptures they referred to when they refused to get the girl medical help?

I can't think of any scriptures that these people would interpret as being against taking this poor girl to a doctor.

There is a group called Christian Science that I think do not believe in using doctors.   I do not believe that is biblically correct.

im not asking you to defend your faith.

just give your opinion on the story.

[Butterbean]

im not asking you to defend your faith.

just give your opinion on the story.

I did.  You're welcome

[2ND COMING]

I did.  You're welcome

no..you didnt. You sympathized with the girl. How about commenting on the article.

should the parents be sentenced to more than 1 month per year for 6 years??

should the parents lose custody of their other children?

I got more if you can handle those 

[Butterbean]

no..you didnt.

Yes I did....

I can't think of any scriptures that these people would interpret as being against taking this poor girl to a doctor.

should the parents be sentenced to more than 1 month per year for 6 years??

Probably not...they do need counseling though.

should the parents lose custody of their other children?

Once they get out of jail you mean?  Knowing what little I have read, if they are minor children, I'd say possibly yes until they completed some type of counseling/deprogramming.  If they decided against taking custody from them, a social worker should go in at least 2ce a week.


Do you know what their belief system/denomination is?

[2ND COMING]

Yes I did....

sure.

moving on...

Probably not...they do need counseling though.

speechless  

Once they get out of jail you mean?

no. their sentence is 1 month per year for 6 years. The three kids are teens.

I have seen parents lose custody of their kids for much much less.

Do you think its safe for the parents to lose custody?

Do you know what their belief system/denomination is?

Judging from the article, they are christian.

Dale Neumann, 47, read from the Bible and told the judge that he loved his daughter.

"I am guilty of trusting my Lord's wisdom completely. ... Guilty of asking for heavenly intervention. Guilty of following Jesus Christ when the whole world does not understand. Guilty of obeying my God," he said.

[Butterbean]

speechless  

Why do you say that?

What did you mean by this?:

in the end, logic and justice prevails.

no. their sentence is 1 month per year for 6 years.

I've never heard of a term like that before.  Looks like one parent will always be there for custody as they will alternate terms March/Sept.

Do you think its safe for the parents to lose custody?

Not sure what you mean by this.

Judging from the article, they are christian.

I found another article that said he is a "Full-Gospel Christian."  I'm looking to find out what that is.

-----------------

"None of that makes any sense to rational person of course. Although the Neumann's believe that sickness has a "spiritual root cause," the Neumann's beliefs are actually far graver than that.

1:55 p.m. Leilani made more comments about her religious beliefs, the role of healing and doctors. “We are not against the people (doctors). The practice we consider not biblical,” Neumann said.
Leilani said there are two types of medicine in the Bible, spiritual and natural."



I can't find out if these people are in a cult now or extremely misguided or what. 

I found this but didn't read it all (looks like the father grew up in a cult):

http://graphics2.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/apr08/diabetes-case-042908.pdf
 

[2ND COMING]

Stella, do you think the children are old enough to be taken from their parents (until the parents go through some sort of counseling/mental evaluation) without being detrimental to their psyche?

I dont like the fact that the parents still can have custody of these kids. Its just strange.

[Ex Coelis]

here's a story to put it into perspective:

There was a man with a strong faith in God who lived in a small town. One day the police came to his door warning him of a flood and suggested he evacuate.

The man replied "Whatever. I'll just stay here and pray. I know God will keep me safe"

The next day it started to rain.

His neighbour came to his door and said, "Brah! I'm taking off before the water gets too high. Hop in, I'll give you a lift"

The man replied, "I'm good. God'll protect me"

The next day it rained so much, the man was forced to sit on his roof to stay above the water.

Rescue crews came to his house on a boat to take him away.

The man replied, "It's all good! The water is high but so is my spirit. I've been praying to God and I know he'll save me."

The next day the man drowned.

When he got to Heaven he saw God and asked, "Dude, what the fuck? I prayed and prayed, I had faith in you, and you still didn't protect me?"

God replied, "Shit, son. I sent the police to evacuate you, I sent your neighbour to drive you, and then I sent a rescue crew on a boat! What more do you want?"




The parralels between the two stories should be obvious . . .

[Butterbean]

Stella, do you think the children are old enough to be taken from their parents (until the parents go through some sort of counseling/mental evaluation) without being detrimental to their psyche?

I dont like the fact that the parents still can have custody of these kids. Its just strange.

I agree w/you.  It actually seems like the parents could be a danger to the other kids ...possibly.  I don't have kids so it's easy for me to say take them from the parents, but obviously it's more complicated than that...  ....but it's almost like they are mentally unfit or something...seems the father's being raised in a cult has left residual brainwashing.

Looks like they have someone coming into check on the kids but I think it should be at least 2ce a week if they are not going to take the kids away.  One of them could die from a bad infection or the swine flu etc. in no time at all.  

here's a story to put it into perspective:

There was a man with a strong faith in God who lived in a small town. One day the police came to his door warning him of a flood and suggested he evacuate.

The man replied "Whatever. I'll just stay here and pray. I know God will keep me safe"

The next day it started to rain.

His neighbour came to his door and said, "Brah! I'm taking off before the water gets too high. Hop in, I'll give you a lift"

The man replied, "I'm good. God'll protect me"

The next day it rained so much, the man was forced to sit on his roof to stay above the water.

Rescue crews came to his house on a boat to take him away.

The man replied, "It's all good! The water is high but so is my spirit. I've been praying to God and I know he'll save me."

The next day the man drowned.

When he got to Heaven he saw God and asked, "Dude, what the fuck? I prayed and prayed, I had faith in you, and you still didn't protect me?"

God replied, "Shit, son. I sent the police to evacuate you, I sent your neighbour to drive you, and then I sent a rescue crew on a boat! What more do you want?"




The parralels between the two stories should be obvious . . .

Yes...the parallel is very clear..good story

Were those quotes were word for word     .