Author Topic: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES  (Read 4277 times)

SAMSON123

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Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« on: October 11, 2009, 11:24:55 AM »
Even those who have lifted up, taught, spread and declared the LIE of Columbus discovering america have had enough...Now the TRUTH slowly begins to leak out.

A darker side of Columbus emerges in US classrooms
AP   

In this Oct. 9, 2009 photo, Kindergarten students Kaileen Barreto, left, and AP – In this Oct. 9, 2009 photo, Kindergarten students Kaileen Barreto, left, and Shayonna Bridgeman load …

By CHRISTINE ARMARIO, Associated Press Writer Christine Armario, Associated Press Writer – Sun Oct 11, 10:43 am ET

TAMPA, Fla. – Jeffrey Kolowith's kindergarten students read a poem about Christopher Columbus, take a journey to the New World on three paper ships and place the explorer's picture on a timeline through history.

Kolowith's students learn about the explorer's significance — though they also come away with a more nuanced picture of Columbus than the noble discoverer often portrayed in pop culture and legend.

"I talk about the situation where he didn't even realize where he was," Kolowith said. "And we talked about how he was very, very mean, very bossy."

Columbus' stature in U.S. classrooms has declined somewhat through the years, and many districts will not observe his namesake holiday on Monday. Although lessons vary, many teachers are trying to present a more balanced perspective of what happened after Columbus reached the Caribbean and the suffering of indigenous populations.

"The whole terminology has changed," said James Kracht, executive associate dean for academic affairs in the Texas A&M College of Education and Human Development. "You don't hear people using the world 'discovery' anymore like they used to. 'Columbus discovers America.' Because how could he discover America if there were already people living here?"

In Texas, students start learning in the fifth grade about the "Columbian Exchange" — which consisted not only of gold, crops and goods shipped back and forth across the Atlantic Ocean, but diseases carried by settlers that decimated native populations.

In McDonald, Pa., 30 miles southwest of Pittsburgh, fourth-grade students at Fort Cherry Elementary put Columbus on trial this year — charging him with misrepresenting the Spanish crown and thievery. They found him guilty and sentenced him to life in prison.

"In their own verbiage, he was a bad guy," teacher Laurie Crawford said.

Of course, the perspective given varies across classrooms and grades. Donna Sabis-Burns, a team leader with the U.S. Department of Education's School Support and Technology Program, surveyed teachers nationwide about the Columbus reading materials they used in class for her University of Florida dissertation. She examined 62 picture books, and found the majority were outdated and contained inaccurate — and sometimes outright demeaning — depictions of the native Taino population.

The federal holiday itself also is not universally recognized. Schools in Miami, Dallas, Los Angeles and Seattle will be open; New York City, Washington and Chicago schools will be closed.

The day is an especially sensitive issue in places with larger native American populations.

"We have a very large Alaska native population, so just the whole Columbus being the founder of the United States, doesn't sit well with a lot of people, myself included," said Paul Prussing, deputy director of Alaska's Division of Teaching and Learning Support.

Many recall decades ago when there was scant mention of indigenous groups in discussions about Columbus. Kracht remembers a picture in one of his fifth-grade textbooks that showed Columbus wading to shore with a huge flag and cross.

"The indigenous population was kind of waiting expectantly, almost with smiles on their faces," Kracht said. "'I wonder what this guy is bringing us?' Well, he's bringing us smallpox, for one thing, and none of us are going to live very long."

Kracht said an emerging multiculturalism led more people to investigate the cruelties suffered by the Taino population in the 1960s and '70s, along with the 500th anniversary in 1992.

However, there are people who believe the discussion has shifted too far. Patrick Korten, vice president of communications for the Catholic fraternal service organization the Knights of Columbus, recalled a note from a member who saw a lesson at a New Jersey school.

The students were forced to stand in a cafeteria and not allowed to eat while other students teased and intimidated them — apparently so they could better understand the suffering indigenous populations endured because of Columbus, Korten said.

"My impression is that in some classrooms, it's anything but a balanced presentation," Korten, said. "That it's deliberately very negative, which is a matter of great concern because that is not accurate."

Korten said he doesn't believe such activities are widespread — though the lessons will certainly vary.

In Kolowith's Tampa class, students gathered around a white carpet, where they examined a pile of bright plastic fruits and vegetables, baby dolls, construction paper and other items as they decided what would be best for their voyage.

"Do you think it would be good to take babies on a long and dangerous boat ride?" he asked the class. "No!" they replied.

Fifteen miles away, in Seffner, Fla., Colson Elementary assistant principal Jack Keller visited students in a colonial outfit and gray wig, pretending to be Columbus and discussing his voyages. The suffering of natives was not mentioned.

"Our thing was to show exploration," he said.

Meanwhile, Crawford's Pennsylvania class dressed up as characters from the era, assigned roles for a mock trial and put Columbus on the stand. Out of a jury of 12 students, nine found him guilty of the charges.

"Every hero is somebody else's villain," said Felipe Fernandez-Armesto, a scholar and author of several books related to Columbus, including "1492: The Year the World Began."

"Heroism and villainy are just two sides of the same coin."
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headhuntersix

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2009, 11:43:57 AM »
Yeah this is what we need in this country...that teacher should be fired. More liberal bullshit.
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Straw Man

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2009, 11:49:18 AM »
Yeah this is what we need in this country...that teacher should be fired. More liberal bullshit.

HH - do a google search and maybe you'll figure out that Columbus did a lot of really horrible stuff and was nice enough to keep diaries about it too.

SAMSON123

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2009, 11:50:45 AM »
Yeah this is what we need in this country...that teacher should be fired. More liberal bullshit.

FIRED FOR TELLING THE TRUTH??????

How is it in america people who speak up, whistleblow, follow your constitution, talk about or encourage a Biblical way of life, OR TELL THE TRUTH are always attacked, ASSASSINATED, Ridiculed, looked over/past, HATED etc etc.? I don't understand. You complain of injustice, political shenanigans, corruption, dishonety yet you do everything to encourage it. Now, do you want to rid yourselves of it or not?
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Straw Man

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2009, 11:55:37 AM »
FIRED FOR TELLING THE TRUTH??????

How is it in america people who speak up, whistleblow, follow your constitution, talk about or encourage a Biblical way of life, OR TELL THE TRUTH are always attacked, ASSASSINATED, Ridiculed, looked over/past, HATED etc etc.? I don't understand. You complain of injustice, political shenanigans, corruption, dishonety yet you do everything to encourage it. Now, do you want to rid yourselves of it or not?

encourage a Biblical way of life?

there's plenty of horrible shit in the bible too

Ex Coelis

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 12:01:25 PM »
clearly an attack on Italian-Americans

headhuntersix

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2009, 12:06:08 PM »
SAMSON we're Americans..not citizens of the world..Americans. Kids have no business putting Columbus on trial. Did the teacher talk about how these tribes killed each other or how American indian tribes mad war on each other..or black african tribes sold other black african tribes into slavery..or how only after the defeat of the Muslim Moors stuck in the 7th century was Europe able to launch the age of discovery. No!!!....Kids can learn all of this in high school or college when their thinking is evolved. And as Straw says....the damm bible is all about war and killing, more more so in the old testement then the new....


Yep BPJ...I'm sueing.
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SAMSON123

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2009, 12:12:35 PM »
clearly an attack on Italian-Americans

Columbus was a Spaniard not Italian. I for the life of me do not understand why the italians get all excited about Columbus day when it has nothing to do with them.
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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2009, 12:18:14 PM »
it's part of history, and I'm okay with kids seeing all kinds of history.  In my opinion, anti-americanism comes out of americans feeling betrayed by their country.  Look at how some getbig members here can't stop complimenting the chinese, while shitting on obama for everything.

If this teacher was putting bush or obama on mock trial, I'd have a problem with it.

I don't care if they put historical figures in an honest light.  Teaching our future leaders the truth is way better than some bullshit version of "Columbus rescued the indians", etc.

headhuntersix

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2009, 12:21:15 PM »
Columbus was a Spaniard not Italian. I for the life of me do not understand why the italians get all excited about Columbus day when it has nothing to do with them.

Are u serious...leave the board now.

is generally, although not universally, agreed that Christopher Columbus was born between 25 August and 31 October 1451 in Genoa, part of modern Italy.[4] His father was Domenico Colombo, a middle-class wool weaver, who later also had a cheese stand where Christopher was a helper, working both in Genoa and Savona. His mother was Susanna Fontanarossa. Bartolomeo, Giovanni Pellegrino and Giacomo were his brothers. Bartolomeo worked in a cartography workshop in Lisbon for at least part of his adulthood.[5]
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Kazan

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2009, 12:22:18 PM »
Like this is news that Columbus was a big meanie? Every civilazation that has ever colonized\conquered another has done the same thing since time began. All this is, is an attempt to demonize America, that it is illegitimate from its very discovery. Kids these days have no real understanding of the history and greatness of this country, because the only history they teach anymore only dwells on the bad. My kid would have no idea what happened in the civil war, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam if it wasn't for me. No idea who US grant was or any other major player in the civil war but could write an essay about harriet tubman.
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headhuntersix

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2009, 12:25:07 PM »
it's part of history, and I'm okay with kids seeing all kinds of history.  In my opinion, anti-americanism comes out of americans feeling betrayed by their country.  Look at how some getbig members here can't stop complimenting the chinese, while shitting on obama for everything.

If this teacher was putting bush or obama on mock trial, I'd have a problem with it.

I don't care if they put historical figures in an honest light.  Teaching our future leaders the truth is way better than some bullshit version of "Columbus rescued the indians", etc.

Kids at 4th grade don't need to be doing this....they aren't getting the truth..they're getting revisionist history. Things like this destroy the country. Children must learn to love this country first...not tear it apart. Each year they can learn more...do u understand why we hate Obama..because he's destroying this country bit by bit. LIbs continue to destroy everything that has been built here. Why do jobs go over seas...taxes and regulations that drive them away. Cons didnt do that.



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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2009, 12:26:03 PM »
didn' we give the indians some diseased blankets?  Surely we should scrub the history books and talk about how our down comforters saved the freezing indians?


you learn from your mistakes.  If your teacher wrote "100% A+" on the top of every paper you did, would you ever learn anything?  We realize we did some underhanded shit in the past - as every nation has - and we grow the F up.

Straw Man

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2009, 12:27:15 PM »
Kids at 4th grade don't need to be doing this....they aren't getting the truth..they're getting revisionist history. Things like this destroy the country. Children must learn to love this country first...not tear it apart. Each year they can learn more...do u understand why we hate Obama..because he's destroying this country bit by bit. LIbs continue to destroy everything that has been built here. Why do jobs go over seas...taxes and regulations that drive them away. Cons didnt do that.

holy shit  - so much stupidity in such a short paragraph

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2009, 12:28:56 PM »
Kids at 4th grade don't need to be doing this....they aren't getting the truth..they're getting revisionist history. Things like this destroy the country. Children must learn to love this country first...not tear it apart. Each year they can learn more...do u understand why we hate Obama..because he's destroying this country bit by bit. LIbs continue to destroy everything that has been built here. Why do jobs go over seas...taxes and regulations that drive them away. Cons didnt do that.

i remember learning about the diseased blanket thing in 4th or 5th grade

I think it's a tad dramatic to say "Things like this destroy the country."  Yes, it's s sad chapter.  But it is what it is.  Is this particular teacher being a whiny pusssy by spending time on this?  of course.  It'd be better for a 7th or 9th grade history law class, than using valuable elementary time on it.  

I'm probably more annoytd this teacher has time NOT to spend on math, reading, and writing.  In 5th grade, mock trials are a big waste of time.

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2009, 12:30:00 PM »
HH6,

It was 25 years ago that I learned about diseased blankets we gave the injuns.  In 5th grade or so.

Do you think this should be changed?

SAMSON123

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2009, 12:31:30 PM »
Are u serious...leave the board now.

is generally, although not universally, agreed that Christopher Columbus was born between 25 August and 31 October 1451 in Genoa, part of modern Italy.[4] His father was Domenico Colombo, a middle-class wool weaver, who later also had a cheese stand where Christopher was a helper, working both in Genoa and Savona. His mother was Susanna Fontanarossa. Bartolomeo, Giovanni Pellegrino and Giacomo were his brothers. Bartolomeo worked in a cartography workshop in Lisbon for at least part of his adulthood.[5]

It is now UNIVERSALLY AGREED that the whole Columbus tale was and is a LIE. This paragragh you posted is a perfect example of what you have been brainwashed to believe. The fallacy of Columbus has been known for years...I am glad it is now getting the attention it deserves.

And just for the record... Columbus reported to Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand  of SPAIN with details on what he found in the so called New World andfor money for this "expidition". Why did he not report and ask for money from the ruler of Italy if he was Italian? Secondly his communications were always in SPANISH... not Italian. Hmmmmmm
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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2009, 12:34:07 PM »
Hey moron...nobody is saying that..but not at 4th grade..because my kid got the "we used chemical warfare" crap on the indians too. But miss lib douchebag failed to talk about how midwestern tribes drove other tribes from hunting grounds and conducted wars on them, long before the US Cav appeared.  They don't get that. They study the Civil War and they don't even get a class on the Mass 54th....Christ they could show Glory....oh no. ids have no idea what Omaha beach was all about. The military history of this country IS the history of this country. ONce kids get a baseline..they can take it further in High School and college. Oh and kids in Germany and Japan...those societies ignore WW2 like it never happened.

Hey shitbag...he worked for the Spanish..he worked for them....he worked for them. He was an Italian. He may have become a Spainish ciotizen but he was a Genovese.
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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2009, 12:39:32 PM »
HH6,

It was 25 years ago that I learned about diseased blankets we gave the injuns.  In 5th grade or so.

Do you think this should be changed?

First of all you need to get off you fucking Moral high horse, and I like to refer to myself as an American not an injun. It simply comes down to strength, if you are not strong enough to hold your territory, someone is going to take it from you. It is human nature, you can try to mask it with liberal sensibilities, but when push comes to shove the warrior always wins out.
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Straw Man

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2009, 12:41:27 PM »
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/Taino/docs/columbus.html

This myth of the pawned jewels obscures the true and more sinister story of how Columbus financed his trip. The Spanish monarch invested in his excursion, but only on the condition that Columbus would repay this investment with profit by bringing back gold, spices, and other tribute from Asia. This pressing need to repay his debt underlies the frantic tone of Columbus' diaries as he raced from one Caribbean island to the next, stealing anything of value.

After he failed to contact the emperor of China, the traders of India or the merchants of Japan, Columbus decided to pay for his voyage in the one important commodity he had found in ample supply - human lives. He seized 1,200 Taino Indians from the island of Hispaniola, crammed as many onto his ships as would fit and sent them to Spain, where they were paraded naked through the streets of Seville and sold as slaves in 1495. Columbus tore children from their parents, husbands from wives. On board Columbus' slave ships, hundreds died; the sailors tossed the Indian bodies into the Atlantic.

Because Columbus captured more Indian slaves than he could transport to Spain in his small ships, he put them to work in mines and plantations which he, his family and followers created throughout the Caribbean. His marauding band hunted Indians for sport and profit - beating, raping, torturing, killing, and then using the Indian bodies as food for their hunting dogs. Within four years of Columbus' arrival on Hispaniola, his men had killed or exported one-third of the original Indian population of 300,000. Within another 50 years, the Taino people had been made extinct [editor's note: the old assumption that the Taino became extinct is now open to serious question] - the first casualties of the holocaust of American Indians. The plantation owners then turned to the American mainland and to Africa for new slaves to follow the tragic path of the Taino

SAMSON123

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2009, 12:44:28 PM »
Hey moron...nobody is saying that..but not at 4th grade..because my kid got the "we used chemical warfare" crap on the indians too. But miss lib douchebag failed to talk about how midwestern tribes drove other tribes from hunting grounds and conducted wars on them, long before the US Cav appeared.  They don't get that. They study the Civil War and they don't even get a class on the Mass 54th....Christ they could show Glory....oh no. ids have no idea what Omaha beach was all about. The military history of this country IS the history of this country. ONce kids get a baseline..they can take it further in High School and college. Oh and kids in Germany and Japan...those societies ignore WW2 like it never happened.

Hey shitbag...he worked for the Spanish..he worked for them....he worked for them. He was an Italian. He may have become a Spainish ciotizen but he was a Genovese.

No where is there talk of any supposed citizenship change and the Spaniards didn't need a Eye-Talian to WORK FOR THEM.... You see how easy it is to manufacture lies and for them to get out of hand and start being believed by the unsuspecting...

In Germany the only history that is forcibly ignored is the supposed holocaust. revealing the TRUTH of that upsets the HANDWRINGERS. The Japanese are experts in their own history of being bombed by america...long after the war was declared over.
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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2009, 12:46:12 PM »
First of all you need to get off you fucking Moral high horse, and I like to refer to myself as an American not an injun. It simply comes down to strength, if you are not strong enough to hold your territory, someone is going to take it from you. It is human nature, you can try to mask it with liberal sensibilities, but when push comes to shove the warrior always wins out.

I'm not saying it's bad we gave them the blankets.  No moral high horse here.

Agreed 100% it comes down to strength.

My Q is, at what age do you stop giving the kids a a candy-coated story?  Sounds like we stop at 10 or 11 years old.  I'm okay with that.

MuscleMcMannus

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2009, 12:47:43 PM »
SAMSON we're Americans..not citizens of the world..Americans. Kids have no business putting Columbus on trial. Did the teacher talk about how these tribes killed each other or how American indian tribes mad war on each other..or black african tribes sold other black african tribes into slavery..or how only after the defeat of the Muslim Moors stuck in the 7th century was Europe able to launch the age of discovery. No!!!....Kids can learn all of this in high school or college when their thinking is evolved. And as Straw says....the damm bible is all about war and killing, more more so in the old testement then the new....


Yep BPJ...I'm sueing.

You redeem your intellect a little with posts like these, even though it's still bottom of the barrel.  LOL. 

I agree it's important for kids to learn certain things in high school and go on to study them more in depth when their thinking has evolved.  Why don't we just tell kids that there is no such thing as Santa Claus anymore? 

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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2009, 12:49:12 PM »
Straw...I'm not arguing he was a bad guy...i don't really care..but u made ur point with argument from me.

Hhahahaahahha...SAMSON.. ....ur an idiot. He was born in Genoa...who cares. The Germans don't study WW2...not even in their military schools. The Japs don't discuss WW2 period because then u sorta have to talk about China...ohoh. They attacked us....we stomped the dog shit out of them..I'mm very very very happy about that. The war didn't end until they signed that little paper on the Mighty Mo.

There's no Santa Claus?
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Re: Even The LIARS Have Grown Tired Of The LIES
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2009, 12:50:45 PM »
I'm not saying it's bad we gave them the blankets.  No moral high horse here.

Agreed 100% it comes down to strength.

My Q is, at what age do you stop giving the kids a a candy-coated story?  Sounds like we stop at 10 or 11 years old.  I'm okay with that.

Children don't need to loose their innocents any sooner than necessary, maybe the teachers should think about that.
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