Are we worse off now than we were during the Great Depression?

[headhuntersix]

I must have missed that..German SOF ran no misions in Afghanistan and was pulled out, Italian SAR refused medivac requests several times during their short stay. French SOF ran during a battle and caused the death of 2 Navy Seals. Some of that occured while I was there in 06-07. I ran two missions with the Germans, they are good soldiers but lack strong leadership, mostly at the top level.

[lovemonkey]

I must have missed that..German SOF ran no misions in Afghanistan and was pulled out, Italian SAR refused medivac requests several times during their short stay. French SOF ran during a battle and caused the death of 2 Navy Seals. Some of that occured while I was there in 06-07. I ran two missions with the Germans, they are good soldiers but lack strong leadership, mostly at the top level.

That's unsettling to hear. Do the US and Euro forces collaborate a lot or do they try to stay on separate missions?

[headhuntersix]

Our SOF forces do alot of things together....the US and Commonwealth countries are very tight and are great soldiers.

[drkaje]

We're much better off than during the great depression.

This is more or less "the great economic correction" and would very likely have been over by now had politicians not tried throwing money at it.

It's the same as AIDS. The disease would have died off without retrovirals instead of becoming chronic/expensive.

[Ex Coelis]

American soldiers I worked with were top notch and highly experienced

maybe a little burned out from consecutive 12-18 month tours, though

[Eyeball Chambers]

I must have missed that..German SOF ran no misions in Afghanistan and was pulled out, Italian SAR refused medivac requests several times during their short stay. French SOF ran during a battle and caused the death of 2 Navy Seals. Some of that occured while I was there in 06-07. I ran two missions with the Germans, they are good soldiers but lack strong leadership, mostly at the top level.

You've got to be shitting me?  They still do that?

If I was French I'd die in battle just so the stereotype wasn't reinforced...  

[Eyeball Chambers]

Are we now? 

[Soul Crusher]

No but...we don't build anything...I think we need to reindustrialize.

100%.  The only way we have any chance is to re-industrialize.  We need to build, manufacture, produce and sell what we consume.

 

[Mons Venus]

100%.  The only way we have any chance is to re-industrialize.  We need to build, manufacture, produce and sell what we consume.
  

Nail on head!  

[Eyeball Chambers]

We survived the depression and prospered, will we again?

[Soul Crusher]

We survived the depression and prospered, will we again?

Some of Celente's interviews are very good on this topic.  Go on youtube and look him up. 

Its a very good topic to ponder in fact.  He says that back then more people were used to living with less, more able to grow their own food, and the country did not have the massive debt problems we have now, not to mention the illegal alien and other downward pressures on wages and manufacturing. 

[Mons Venus]

100%.  The only way we have any chance is to re-industrialize.  We need to build, manufacture, produce and sell what we consume.
 

Here's the problem 333's...even if manufacturing returned to the US and all employees were paid minimum wage, (w/o benefits) its still MUCH cheaper to produce products in the Far East. Just ask Walmart.

[Soul Crusher]

Here's the problem 333's...even if manufacturing returned to the US and all employees were paid minimum wage, (w/o benefits) its still MUCH cheaper to produce products in the Far East. Just ask Walmart.

I know, its sort of the Catch 22. 

However, I can see no other way out of our issues than to massively to mfging. 

For example, think about the jobs that are created by a factory producing a product.

1.  Someone has to build it.  (Domestic jobs)
2.  Somewone has to maintain it (Domestic jobs)
3.  Someone has to supply it with equipment (Domestic jobs)
4.  Someone has to insure it (Domestic jobs)
5.  Someone has to do accounting of what is produced there.
6.  Someone has to supply the factory with energy.
7.  Someone has to be legal counsel tot he company over issues at the plant. 
8.  Someone has to feed the people who work there. 
9.  Someone has to supply it with the raw materials to produce the product.
10.  Someone has to handle the HR issues for the employees there. 

Did I mention the fact that people have to work there?  Not yet, since there are many other jobs that are created or aided by domestic manufacturing. 

This is why we need to get our heads out of our asses and do everything possible to remove any and all barriers to manufacturing, whether it be regulatory, tax based, etc. 
 

[240 is Back]

most of what you are calling for are SERVICES - feeding, insuring, selling and maintaining it - which is all fine and dandy.

but BUILDING it... that's something we can't do.  You can build ANY basic good overseas for a lot cheaper.  Sure, for higher-end shit where SERVICE is involved, it's still easy to go american.  But if you're a store selling any common good, overseas-made items are cheaper.  How much would that $25 DVD player from China cost, if made in USA?  A lot more   They have cheap labor, we don't.

IMO, the only solution is to say "Yes, we'll take the overseas goods" (well, we're saying it already) and work to provide service exports better.

[Mons Venus]

I know, its sort of the Catch 22. 

However, I can see no other way out of our issues than to massively to mfging. 

For example, think about the jobs that are created by a factory producing a product.

1.  Someone has to build it.  (Domestic jobs)
2.  Somewone has to maintain it (Domestic jobs)
3.  Someone has to supply it with equipment (Domestic jobs)
4.  Someone has to insure it (Domestic jobs)
5.  Someone has to do accounting of what is produced there.
6.  Someone has to supply the factory with energy.
7.  Someone has to be legal counsel tot he company over issues at the plant. 
8.  Someone has to feed the people who work there. 
9.  Someone has to supply it with the raw materials to produce the product.
10.  Someone has to handle the HR issues for the employees there. 

Did I mention the fact that people have to work there?  Not yet, since there are many other jobs that are created or aided by domestic manufacturing. 

This is why we need to get our heads out of our asses and do everything possible to remove any and all barriers to manufacturing, whether it be regulatory, tax based, etc. 
 

I agree 100%.. but unless we're able to pay US workers 20 cents per hour all the regulatory and tax barriers mean nothing.

[Soul Crusher]

most of what you are calling for are SERVICES - feeding, insuring, selling and maintaining it - which is all fine and dandy.

but BUILDING it... that's something we can't do.  You can build ANY basic good overseas for a lot cheaper.  Sure, for higher-end shit where SERVICE is involved, it's still easy to go american.  But if you're a store selling any common good, overseas-made items are cheaper.  How much would that $25 DVD player from China cost, if made in USA?  A lot more   They have cheap labor, we don't.

IMO, the only solution is to say "Yes, we'll take the overseas goods" (well, we're saying it already) and work to provide service exports better.

240 - that is why I scream about govt spending all the time.  It drives the cost of everything through the damn roof.  

For example - where I live the average cop makes well over 125k a year.  The burden on businesses and homeowners to support this drives the cost of everything much higher since these costs have to be passed along in order for businesses to stay afloat.  

Its not that I hate cops or firemen, etc, but I know that you cant have a sustainable economy when the cost of the local govt, state govt, and Fed govt are so high that it inflates the costs of services, goods, businesses, etc to the point where we cant be competitive with anyone else.  

Think about this 240 - on my block the average taxpayer pays about 10-12k a year in property taxes.  And this is the Y.O., not Scarsdale.  I live where DMX, Mary J. Blige, mobsters, the Lox, and other came from.    

One of my buddies is a detective and made 185k last year!  Shit, I am sitting here and like WTF! ! !.  18 homes' tax receipts alone had to pay for this bastard to go beat up people, write tickets, and bs. the OT for pension purposes.  Notice I did not include the fire budget, schools budget, Public Works,. etc.  Its simply not sustainable or productive when the best option for 95% of the population is to become a cop bullying people over running a stop sign.  Almost every cop I know on the YPD is driving Mercedes, BMW, etc.  Its crazy.  For what? ? ?        

You simply cannot have a viable economy or business climate when so much damn good money is being diverted to the public sector like this.  

This is only my own little shit hole in NYC and the area.  However, this is going on nationwide.        

[Mons Venus]

240 - that is why I scream about govt spending all the time.  It drives the cost of everything through the damn roof.  

For example - where I live the average cop makes well over 125k a year.  The burden on businesses and homeowners to support this drives the cost of everything much higher since these costs have to be passed along in order for businesses to stay afloat.  

Its not that I hate cops or firemen, etc, but I know that you cant have a sustainable economy when the cost of the local govt, state govt, and Fed govt are so high that it inflates the costs of services, goods, businesses, etc to the point where we cant be competitive with anyone else.  

Think about this 240 - on my block the average taxpayer pays about 10-12k a year in property taxes.  And this is the Y.O., not Scarsdale.  I live where DMX, Mary J. Blige, mobsters, the Lox, and other came from.    

One of my buddies is a detective and made 185k last year!  Shit, I am sitting here and like WTF! ! !.  18 homes' tax receipts alone had to pay for this bastard to go beat up people, write tickets, and bs. the OT for pension purposes.  Notice I did not include the fire budget, schools budget, Public Works,. etc.  Its simply not sustainable or productive when the best option for 95% of the population is to become a cop bullying people over running a stop sign.  Almost every cop I know on the YPD is driving Mercedes, BMW, etc.  Its crazy.  For what? ? ?        

You simply cannot have a viable economy or business climate when so much damn good money is being diverted to the public sector like this.  

This is only my own little shit hole in NYC and the area.  However, this is going on nationwide.        

Its true! One of my NYPD buddies recently retired w/ a pension of 60k per year with full benefits for life. Did a mention his yearly COLA as well? F'n crazy!

[Soul Crusher]

Its true! One of my NYPD buddies recently retired w/ a pension of 60k per year with full benefits for life. Did a mention his yearly COLA as well? F'n crazy!

Look, I dont want to take anything away from cops, BUT - we simply cannot afford to pay cops 125k a year, plus 50% pension after 20 year for life, plus COLA, plus health insurance, plus life insurance, etc. 

Do the math - that is all money taken from the private sector going to the public sector. 

So for example - a cop who gets on NYPD at 22 can retire at 42 with pension of at least 60k, many much higher, for life!

When you do the math its totally insane.   

[loco]

Are we worse off now then we were during the Great Depression?

No.

And any Great Depression survivor would cuss out anyone who says otherwise.

[240 is Back]

"240 - that is why I scream about govt spending all the time.  It drives the cost of everything through the damn roof.  "


If a kid in China will work for 30 cents an hour assembling VCRs or basketball shoes...

The govt can be as laissez-Faire as it wants... we can't keep up with that.

Youre right about the govt crazy spending, but I see them as separate issues.

[Soul Crusher]

"240 - that is why I scream about govt spending all the time.  It drives the cost of everything through the damn roof.  "


If a kid in China will work for 30 cents an hour assembling VCRs or basketball shoes...

The govt can be as laissez-Faire as it wants... we can't keep up with that.

Youre right about the govt crazy spending, but I see them as separate issues.

Yes we can, because it costs a ton of money getting the product from there to here, not to mention the difficulties dealing with a foregin country, laws, etc. 

[Mons Venus]

Look, I dont want to take anything away from cops, BUT - we simply cannot afford to pay cops 125k a year, plus 50% pension after 20 year for life, plus COLA, plus health insurance, plus life insurance, etc. 

Do the math - that is all money taken from the private sector going to the public sector. 

So for example - a cop who gets on NYPD at 22 can retire at 42 with pension of at least 60k, many much higher, for life!

When you do the math its totally insane.   

Yep, he retired at 44 w/ 20 on the job and now makes $5,000 a month excluding benefits.  

[240 is Back]

"Yes we can, because it costs a ton of money getting the product from there to here, not to mention the difficulties dealing with a foregin country, laws, etc.  "

You're saying a Texas firm can compete with a Mexican firm that has employees producing the same thing at a tenth of the cost?  What tariffs have a 900% markup?

[Soul Crusher]

"Yes we can, because it costs a ton of money getting the product from there to here, not to mention the difficulties dealing with a foregin country, laws, etc.  "

You're saying a Texas firm can compete with a Mexican firm that has employees producing the same thing at a tenth of the cost?  What tariffs have a 900% markup?

I'm not saying it will work for every company, but on margin it will. 

[Mons Venus]

Yes we can, because it costs a ton of money getting the product from there to here, not to mention the difficulties dealing with a foregin country, laws, etc. 

I totally disagree. My sister inlaw owns a large clothing apparel Co. and says she would never produce her line in the US. She claims its too cost prohibitive. Instead, she produces her clothes in China, India and Vietnam paying pennies per hour/per worker. Even at minimum wage she wouldn't move production back to US.

How does the US compete against that?