DOW has hit 10,000

[MM2K]

Dam 333386, you stole my thunder and beat me to the punch!!



That is a devastating chart. Its close to impossible to prove 100% whether or not the stimulus is working, but given that unemployment has increased substantially more than Obama said it would have WITHOUT THE STIMULUS, and given that we had to pay $700 billion of taxpayer money, I would say that the burden of proof is on Obama and not the Republicans.

[Hedgehog]

I believe the current recession is a chance for classic Keynesian politics.

Getting infrastructure projects started is the right thing to do.

Right now, the labor is cheap to get.

As for the Cap and trade, I agree with 3366 that there is a big problem with it.

From what I understand, it seems like the biggest corporations are going to be able to get free passes from the Cap and trade, at least initially.

Clean energy has to pay off.

[Soul Crusher]

I believe the current recession is a chance for classic Keynesian politics.

Getting infrastructure projects started is the right thing to do.

Right now, the labor is cheap to get.

As for the Cap and trade, I agree with 3366 that there is a big problem with it.

From what I understand, it seems like the biggest corporations are going to be able to get free passes from the Cap and trade, at least initially.

Clean energy has to pay off.

Hedge - they blew their wad with the phoney stim bill and there is nothing left to pass a new one. 

[Bindare_Dundat]

I believe the current recession is a chance for classic Keynesian politics.

lol

Holy shit.  

Bro, do you run into glass walls more than twice just to make sure they really are there as well?

[Soul Crusher]

lol

Holy shit.  

Bro, do you run into glass walls more than twice just to make sure they really are there as well?

As if a $1.4 trillion dollar deficit is not enough "stimulus"? ? ?

[a_joker10]

Obama should have worked at guaranteeing loans for small and medium sized business, as well as working at freeing the credit market.

These ideas would have worked far better to spur the economy.
I was in Boston just after the Lehman failure and most of the major private construction was put on hold because the markets were frozen.
Credit issues are still a problem with most private construction and manufacturing businesses.

Spending money on infrastructure is always good.
This is one of the areas that Americas does the best in the world, American highways and transportation infrastructure is amazing.

Open markets aren't the problem. Trading with countries like China without open markets is.

[quadzilla456]

Obama should have worked at guaranteeing loans for small and medium sized business, as well as working at freeing the credit market.

These ideas would have worked far better to spur the economy.
I was in Boston just after the Lehman failure and most of the major private construction was put on hold because the markets were frozen.
Credit issues are still a problem with most private construction and manufacturing businesses.

Spending money on infrastructure is always good.
This is one of the areas that Americas does the best in the world, American highways and transportation infrastructure is amazing.

Open markets aren't the problem. Trading with countries like China without open markets is.

If you include mass transit as "transportation infrastructure" then America's infrastructure is pathetic.
Also here is Michigan the roads are terrible. Nothing amazing about the infrastructure here.

[Soul Crusher]

If you include mass transit as "transportation infrastructure" then America's infrastructure is pathetic.
Also here is Michigan the roads are terrible. Nothing amazing about the infrastructure here.

MI will be the first state to go the somalia route. 

CA after that followed by NY, NJ, MA, OH,

[a_joker10]

If you include mass transit as "transportation infrastructure" then America's infrastructure is pathetic.
Also here is Michigan the roads are terrible. Nothing amazing about the infrastructure here.

The whole concept of the interstate and flyovers was developed by Americans and it is one of the greatest engineering marvels.
If you every want to see the power of the interstate go to Columbus Ohio. From there you can reach 50% of the US in one day.
Mass transit is a soppy wish for liberals.

The only thing that matters in an economy is how fast goods can move from one place to the next.

That is why most goods are taken by tractor trailers and why the interstate is such a critical player in the economy.

[Soul Crusher]

The whole concept of the interstate and flyovers was developed by Americans and it is one of the greatest engineering marvels.
If you every want to see the power of the interstate go to Columbus Ohio. From there you can reach 50% of the US in one day.
Mass transit is a soppy wish for liberals.

The only thing that matters in an economy is how fast goods can move from one place to the next.

That is why most goods are taken by tractor trailers and why the interstate is such a critical player in the economy.

We need to re-industrialize and drop these green fantasies like yesterday. 

[quadzilla456]

The whole concept of the interstate and flyovers was developed by Americans and it is one of the greatest engineering marvels.
If you every want to see the power of the interstate go to Columbus Ohio. From there you can reach 50% of the US in one day.
Mass transit is a soppy wish for liberals.

The only thing that matters in an economy is how fast goods can move from one place to the next.

That is why most goods are taken by tractor trailers and why the interstate is such a critical player in the economy.

Ever heard of peak oil? What use will the interstate be when oil prices spiral out of control because of supply / demand? Fossil Fuels was a gift from the dinosaurs and coal a gift from plants (to man). These are finite resources. You have 7 billion plus people on the planet. If all the people in China and India want to start driving cars around like the west the supply will simply not keep up. Look what happened to the economy last year after gas hit $4.50 / gallon. Think what will happen once gas hits $8 / gallon. It has been said that the interstate system was the biggest mistake the USA has made.

[240 is Back]

it would be easier to just invent a car that runs on sunshine, neocon chickenhearted hatred, or liberal guilt.

[MM2K]

Ever heard of peak oil? What use will the interstate be when oil prices spiral out of control because of supply / demand? Fossil Fuels was a gift from the dinosaurs and coal a gift from plants (to man). These are finite resources. You have 7 billion plus people on the planet. If all the people in China and India want to start driving cars around like the west the supply will simply not keep up. Look what happened to the economy last year after gas hit $4.50 / gallon. Think what will happen once gas hits $8 / gallon. It has been said that the interstate system was the biggest mistake the USA has made.

Peak oil is a crackpot theory concocted by busybody alarmists who dont understand how prices and present value work. Yes, we have finite resources, but worrying about that is like being pissed off that your car doesnt have the ability to go 10000 miles an hour. Even if your car's engine could enable you to go 10000 miles an hour, there are much narrower constraints that keep you from being able to do that - such as speed limits and residential areas and traffic. Similarly, we dont even know how to use most of the Earth's resources yet. Extracting them right now is too costly and not profitable.

[Soul Crusher]

Ever heard of peak oil? What use will the interstate be when oil prices spiral out of control because of supply / demand? Fossil Fuels was a gift from the dinosaurs and coal a gift from plants (to man). These are finite resources. You have 7 billion plus people on the planet. If all the people in China and India want to start driving cars around like the west the supply will simply not keep up. Look what happened to the economy last year after gas hit $4.50 / gallon. Think what will happen once gas hits $8 / gallon. It has been said that the interstate system was the biggest mistake the USA has made.

i have read that we could convert to natural gas with not too much trouble and we would have plenty of energy for decades.

[240 is Back]

I know there are lots of negative things happening, but are things improving?

[Soul Crusher]

I know there are lots of negative things happening, but are things improving?

For the wall streeters who are still there?  Yes!   However, a ton have been let go. 

For everyone else?  You tell me?   

[Soul Crusher]

I know there are lots of negative things happening, but are things improving?

[BM OUT]

I know there are lots of negative things happening, but are things improving?

NO!!!We have 100 trillion in costs staring us in the face from ss,to medicare,to medicaide.We have massive unemployment,inflation right around the corner.Things are not getting better BY DESIGN by Obama.

[Soul Crusher]

NO!!!We have 100 trillion in costs staring us in the face from ss,to medicare,to medicaide.We have massive unemployment,inflation right around the corner.Things are not getting better BY DESIGN by Obama.

Im reading this book right now - and the facts are frightening.  Medicare alone has about 25 Trillion in unfunded mandates.  SS & Medicaid even more!

At the same time, Baby boomers are retiring and there are not enough Gen X' or Gen Y people alive to pay for all this. 

Yet, we have morons begging for more social programs.  Its incredible the level igonrance amongst the population as to the true state of our economy and finances. 

[Soul Crusher]

I know there are lots of negative things happening, but are things improving?

240 - EDUCATE YOURSELF.

http://www.iousathemovie.com/

[shootfighter1]

Good discussion.

Nice to see wall street with some recovery, no doubt...but where's the growth?  Where's the jobs?  We are going farther into debt, the dollar is slowly loosing ground, government is becoming more costly.  We have to incentivise the creation of goods and products.  You can't do that by taxing the shit out of the private sector. 

Straw, most business owners I know have a negative opinion of what this administration is doing.  We don't need more bloated government jobs.

[kcballer]

Not according to Obama you fool.  He made the problem worse by his own definition Straw. 

REALITY, FACTS, LOGIC ARE YOU WORST ENEMY:

 

I like how you use 'estimates' of something that never was.  Please tell me exactly how you can say with certainty those are accurate?  Truth is you can't.  It's a tactic you're using to discredit the stimulus.  We get it.  fact is logical people also get that there isn't an ounce of truth or reality in an 'estimate' of something that never occurred.  Thats' like me running around saying my estimated bench press is 1000lbs but i haven't done that yet but hey it's 'estimated'.

[Soul Crusher]

I like how you use 'estimates' of something that never was.  Please tell me exactly how you can say with certainty those are accurate?  Truth is you can't.  It's a tactic you're using to discredit the stimulus.  We get it.  fact is logical people also get that there isn't an ounce of truth or reality in an 'estimate' of something that never occurred.  Thats' like me running around saying my estimated bench press is 1000lbs but i haven't done that yet but hey it's 'estimated'.

Oh please, GMAFB! 

[Soul Crusher]

I like how you use 'estimates' of something that never was.  Please tell me exactly how you can say with certainty those are accurate?  Truth is you can't.  It's a tactic you're using to discredit the stimulus.  We get it.  fact is logical people also get that there isn't an ounce of truth or reality in an 'estimate' of something that never occurred.  Thats' like me running around saying my estimated bench press is 1000lbs but i haven't done that yet but hey it's 'estimated'.

What the hell are you talking about?  obama and Romer used the graph to promote the stimulus bill and are now proven drastically wrong.

Its hysterical how you say using facts is a "tactic". 

Deal with it, the very first thing ***** did was and is a flop.   

[Soul Crusher]

I like how you use 'estimates' of something that never was.  Please tell me exactly how you can say with certainty those are accurate?  Truth is you can't.  It's a tactic you're using to discredit the stimulus.  We get it.  fact is logical people also get that there isn't an ounce of truth or reality in an 'estimate' of something that never occurred.  Thats' like me running around saying my estimated bench press is 1000lbs but i haven't done that yet but hey it's 'estimated'.

ALL SIZZLE NO STEAK!