Author Topic: DOW has hit 10,000  (Read 5953 times)

240 is Back

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DOW has hit 10,000
« on: October 12, 2009, 07:39:59 AM »
No doubt, warranted or not, the milestone will be a positive for Obama.


Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2009, 07:49:45 AM »
No doubt, warranted or not, the milestone will be a positive for Obama.



BM OUT

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2009, 07:51:08 AM »
And unemployment will soon soar over 10%.I guess thats Bushs' fault.

headhuntersix

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2009, 07:52:23 AM »
I hope it does....still not fixing our problems.
L

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2009, 07:53:08 AM »
No doubt, warranted or not, the milestone will be a positive for Obama.



And the dow hit 14,000 before the economy fell of the cliff.  Whats your point you idiot?  

Everyone knows this is only because of the money printing the Fed is pushing into the market.  

 

Hedgehog

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2009, 07:55:43 AM »
No doubt, warranted or not, the milestone will be a positive for Obama.



You know, I'm not so sure.

The unemployment keeps rising.

So "folks" -as in the working class/middle class - will wonder why it is that all these companies are starting to do well while Main Street isn't seeing any of it.

The banks have recovered really fine the last few months, and unless the it all gets back to the people of the USA, they will punish the Democrats in the mid terms.

This is actually where the Democrats could struggle IMO.

Not so much with the health care reform. It is something that they can get support for from the public.

But if a Democrat-run Government bails out big banks and give aids to big corporations during the recession while letting the little guy pay for it all, they will be punished in the election.

There has to be jobs created.

A recession is the perfect time to launch huge investments in infrastructure projects, because that's when building costs are at the lowest.

But I don't see the visions of building new Highspeed Intercity Railways.

Or even the launch of any nationwide Wi-fi system.
As empty as paradise

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2009, 07:58:11 AM »
You know, I'm not so sure.

The unemployment keeps rising.

So "folks" -as in the working class/middle class - will wonder why it is that all these companies are starting to do well while Main Street isn't seeing any of it.

The banks have recovered really fine the last few months, and unless the it all gets back to the people of the USA, they will punish the Democrats in the mid terms.

This is actually where the Democrats could struggle IMO.

Not so much with the health care reform. It is something that they can get support for from the public.

But if a Democrat-run Government bails out big banks and give aids to big corporations during the recession while letting the little guy pay for it all, they will be punished in the election.

There has to be jobs created.

A recession is the perfect time to launch huge investments in infrastructure projects, because that's when building costs are at the lowest.

But I don't see the visions of building new Highspeed Intercity Railways.

Or even the launch of any nationwide Wi-fi system.

Hedge - what I dont think you realize is that the only way job creation is going to take place is if Obama and the Dems completely reverse course on their entire agenda. 

They dont want job creation Hedge.  If they did, they would not be doing a fraction of the things they are doing. 

headhuntersix

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2009, 07:59:13 AM »
Hedge we don't build anything anymore...not because we don't have the resources..but because regulation, laws and taxes prevent it. We need to build things..nuke plants..even ur wifi-towers. Build and manufacture..cut taxes on all this...immediatly.
L

Straw Man

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2009, 08:37:49 AM »
And unemployment will soon soar over 10%.I guess thats Bushs' fault.

of course it is

If Obama had done what 333 and other had suggested (which was basically to do nothing) unemployment would be even higher

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2009, 08:39:52 AM »
of course it is

If Obama had done what 333 and other had suggested (which was basically to do nothing) unemployment would be even higher

Not according to Obama you fool.  He made the problem worse by his own definition Straw. 

REALITY, FACTS, LOGIC ARE YOU WORST ENEMY:

 

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2009, 08:52:21 AM »
Not according to Obama you fool.  He made the problem worse by his own definition Straw. 

REALITY, FACTS, LOGIC ARE YOU WORST ENEMY:

 

UPDATED

Straw Man

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2009, 09:08:38 AM »
Not according to Obama you fool.  He made the problem worse by his own definition Straw. 

REALITY, FACTS, LOGIC ARE YOU WORST ENEMY:

skip the chart and explain to me exactly what you think Obama did to make unemployment worse

give me some specifics

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2009, 09:19:01 AM »
skip the chart and explain to me exactly what you think Obama did to make unemployment worse

give me some specifics


The stimulus bill and all the bailouts have crowded out the private sector.  i deal with businessowners every day all day, dozens of them, and every single one is pretrified of what this admn is doing and will not hire people with the specter of higher taxes, cap & trade, and health care mandates on the way. 

By the way, my chart is reason enough to question anything and everything coming from this WH since this was the first thing they did. 

If they got the first projections so wrong on the very first thing they did, why sdhould be believe anything else they do will not suffer the same gross failures?   

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2009, 09:30:46 AM »
From the WSJ

The White House is finally coming to realize that taxes affect job creation. Terrific. Its solution seems to be to bribe employers for hiring new workers, albeit only for a couple of years. Less than terrific.

Alarmed by the rising jobless rate, Democrats are scrambling to "do something" to create jobs. You may have thought that was supposed to be the point of February's $780 billion stimulus plan, and indeed it was. White House economists Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein estimated at the time that the spending blowout would keep the jobless rate below 8%.

 The nearby chart compares the job estimates the two economists used to help sell the stimulus to the American public to the actual jobless rate so far this year. The current rate is 9.8% and is expected to rise or stay high well into the election year of 2010. Rarely in politics do we get such a clear and rapid illustration of a policy failure.

This explains why political panic is beginning to set in, and various panicky ideas to create more jobs are suddenly in play. The New York Times reports that one plan would grant a $3,000 tax credit to employers for each new hire in 2010. Under another, two-year plan, employers would receive a credit in the first year equal to 15.3% of the cost of adding a new worker, an amount that would be reduced to 10.2% in the second year and then phased out entirely. Why 15.3%? Presumably because that's roughly the cost of the payroll tax burden to hire a new worker.

The irony of this is remarkable, considering the costs that Democrats are busy imposing on job creation. Congress raised the minimum wage again in July, a direct slam at low-skilled and young workers. The black teen jobless rate has since climbed to 50.4% from 39.2% in two months. Congress is also moving ahead with a mountain of new mandates, from mandatory paid leave to the House's health-care payroll surtax of 5.4%. All of these policy changes give pause to employers as they contemplate the cost of new hires—a reality that Democrats are tacitly admitting as they now plot to find ways to offset those higher costs.

Alas, their new ideas are little more than political gimmicks that aren't likely to result in many new jobs. Congress doesn't want to give up revenue for very long, so it would make the tax credits temporary. Thus anyone who is hired would have to be productive enough to justify the wage or salary after the tax-credit expires—or else the job is likely to end. An employer would be better off hiring a temp worker and saving on the benefits for the same couple of years.

The tax credit would also inevitably go to some employers already planning to hire, or reward companies that lay off some workers only to hire others to take advantage of the tax credit. And it would reward parts of the country that are growing, such as Texas, at the expense of those that aren't, such as Michigan. In other words, it is a very inefficient business subsidy.

We know all this because a new jobs tax credit has already been tried—in the Carter Administration. In 1977 as he entered the White House, Jimmy Carter proposed a jobs credit and a Democratic Congress passed it. Its unfortunate history was recounted in 1980 by then-Treasury official Emil Sunley in a chapter of "The Economics of Taxation," a book edited by Henry Aaron and Michael Boskin for the Brookings Institution.

A job fair sponsored by the National Urban League in Louisville, Ky., Tuesday, Sept. 15, 2009.
As Mr. Sunley summarized: "The impact of the credit on jobs was slight. In many firms those who make hiring decisions did not understand the firm's tax status." He added that, "Because the capital stock is fixed in the short run, to increase employment significantly, demand for output must increase. An incremental tax cut tied to employment will not by itself generate that increase in demand. Moreover, a temporary incremental credit is unlikely to affect significantly the long-run substitution of labor for capital." Call this Job Creation 101.

President Obama first floated the hiring credit in January, but it died after opposition from Democrats who seemed to get the joke. "If you have a company and you're selling fewer shingles, $3,000 isn't going to get you to hire somebody when your sales are shrinking," said Senator Chuck Schumer. Yet now even some Republicans, such as House GOP whip Eric Cantor, are saying they're receptive to the idea. Mr. Cantor ought to know better.

The lack of U.S. job creation is a big problem, but the quickest way Washington could help would be to stop imposing more financial burdens on hiring. And if Democrats really want to reduce taxes on labor, the cleanest way would be to reduce the payroll tax rate. They could finance a permanent payroll cut by using the $300-$400 billion or more in unspent stimulus money, rather than continuing with the transfer payments and pork barrel spending that have failed so miserably to create jobs.


Straw Man

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2009, 09:39:28 AM »
The stimulus bill and all the bailouts have crowded out the private sector.  i deal with businessowners every day all day, dozens of them, and every single one is pretrified of what this admn is doing and will not hire people with the specter of higher taxes, cap & trade, and health care mandates on the way. 

By the way, my chart is reason enough to question anything and everything coming from this WH since this was the first thing they did. 

If they got the first projections so wrong on the very first thing they did, why sdhould be believe anything else they do will not suffer the same gross failures?   


I asked for specifics in your own words.

Give me specific solutions not rambling paranoia.

I work with multi-million dollary businesses every day too (as well as wealthy individual and not so wealthy people) and I haven't met any that are "petrified" of the government or Obama. 

You're such a moonbat that I expect people that don't agree with you just nod and smile and hope you'll go away soon and you probably take that to be agreement with your paranoid ramblings.

Seriously man, you are on some kind of medication right? 

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2009, 09:40:33 AM »

I asked for specifics in your own words.

Give me specific solutions not rambling paranoia.

I work with multi-million dollary businesses every day too (as well as wealthy individual and not so wealthy people) and I haven't met any that are "petrified" of the government or Obama. 

You're such a moonbat that I expect people that don't agree with you just nod and smile and hope you'll go away soon and you probably take that to be agreement with your paranoid ramblings.

Seriously man, you are on some kind of medication right? 


Coach is Back!

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2009, 09:53:54 AM »
Unemployment coming up on 10%, no jobs being created, especially those "shovel ready" jobs that were promised!

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2009, 09:56:40 AM »
Unemployment coming up on 10%, no jobs being created, especially those "shovel ready" jobs that were promised!

Stimulus was never intended for create jobs.  I said that before it was passed, yet the cult followers like Straw and 240 argued with me about it.  Shit, Straw even argued that condoms were job stimulus.

How are your theories working out Straw?  Just look at the charts for your answer. 

They suck!   

quadzilla456

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2009, 09:57:34 AM »
of course it is

If Obama had done what 333 and other had suggested (which was basically to do nothing) unemployment would be even higher
Obama has not delivered on his promises. I watched his inauguration speech and you would think he got it. Said all the right things:

1. Government is too large
2. Need manufacturing.
3. Have shovel ready projects that will create or save 4 million jobs.

Yet what has he done? At best created 150,000 jobs. Gave billions to banks so they can play with it on stock market. In the process ballooned US debt.

They are papering over all the losses and robbing Peter to Pay Paul. They are staying one step ahead of the accounting process by shifting debt around.

The only thing that will pull USA out of this mess is REAL jobs and manufacturing. A first world, superpower needs a strong middle class. That is a fact. USA needs to make stuff. I'll say it again - USA needs to make stuff.

These government jobs are doing nothing to stimulate our economy. Government is a burden on society. They don't create wealth.

You need people like Edison, Ford, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Wright. Those guys invented or developed a real product that created jobs and wealth for a middle class. A guy like Warrent Buffet does not impress me as much as these other guys. Sure he is a great investor but does he really have as much impact on main street as Bill Gates?

Bill Gates > Warren Buffet

I'd like to see mass transit projects, real road repair / construction on a massive scale. Here in Michigan they have construction cones all over the place causing taffic jams. But no real construction going on. The potholes are still there. So what have they done??

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2009, 09:59:49 AM »

Straw Man

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2009, 10:04:02 AM »
Obama has not delivered on his promises. I watched his inauguration speech and you would think he got it. Said all the right things:

1. Government is too large
2. Need manufacturing.
3. Have shovel ready projects that will create or save 4 million jobs.

Yet what has he done? At best created 150,000 jobs. Gave billions to banks so they can play with it on stock market. In the process ballooned US debt.

They are papering over all the losses and robbing Peter to Pay Paul. They are staying one step ahead of the accounting process by shifting debt around.

The only thing that will pull USA out of this mess is REAL jobs and manufacturing. A first world, superpower needs a strong middle class. That is a fact. USA needs to make stuff. I'll say it again - USA needs to make stuff.
These government jobs are doing nothing to stimulate our economy. Government is a burden on society. They don't create wealth.

You need people like Edison, Ford, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Wright. Those guys invented or developed a real product that created jobs and wealth for a middle class. A guy like Warrent Buffet does not impress me as much as these other guys. Sure he is a great investor but does he really have as much impact on main street as Bill Gates?

Bill Gates > Warren Buffet

I'd like to see mass transit projects, real road repair / construction on a massive scale. Here in Michigan they have construction cones all over the place causing taffic jams. But no real construction going on. The potholes are still there. So what have they done??

I'm in complete agreement with you on these statements

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2009, 10:05:42 AM »
I'm in complete agreement with you on these statements

Guess what Straw - ME TOO!

However, Cap & Trade is the opposite of that and the stimulus bill contains only 5% for infrastructure.

Additionally, Obama is not going near NAFTA and if anything signing us onto to more internationally binding agreements that screw us over.   

quadzilla456

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2009, 10:12:18 AM »
I'm in complete agreement with you on these statements
How about converting large rundown neighborhoods into parks? They have plans like that in motion for Flint, Michigan. They should do the same in Detroit. Demolishing these homes and establishing parks would create jobs. Heck I wouldn't mind helping with that. 1000s of empty homes are rotting away in Detroit.

They should also create parks out of all the empty shopping malls. Actually some of those structures could be converted to housing for the homeless.

Soul Crusher

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2009, 10:16:22 AM »
How about converting large rundown neighborhoods into parks? They have plans like that in motion for Flint, Michigan. They should do the same in Detroit. Demolishing these homes and establishing parks would create jobs. Heck I wouldn't mind helping with that. 1000s of empty homes are rotting away in Detroit.

They should also create parks out of all the empty shopping malls. Actually some of those structures could be converted to housing for the homeless.

How about building Nuclear Power Plants?

How about building factories to supply the goods needed for the military?
 

Straw Man

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Re: DOW should hit 10,000 today
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2009, 10:26:29 AM »
How about converting large rundown neighborhoods into parks? They have plans like that in motion for Flint, Michigan. They should do the same in Detroit. Demolishing these homes and establishing parks would create jobs. Heck I wouldn't mind helping with that. 1000s of empty homes are rotting away in Detroit.

They should also create parks out of all the empty shopping malls. Actually some of those structures could be converted to housing for the homeless.

all good ideas.

I heard a story on the radio this weekend about a guy who was converting vacant lots in Detroit into urban gardens (apparently there are no large chain grocery stores in Detroit) and Arnold was talking about giving incentives to businesses in CA who put solar panel on the roofs of their buidlings (apparently this has been done in Germany with great success).