Author Topic: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?  (Read 5183 times)

Rami

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Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« on: October 18, 2009, 05:20:30 PM »
This year I have experienced suddenly increased strength, but not in size, what could be a reason for this? Even when I regularly do cardio, undercutting calories, cutting carbs or sometimes not sleeping very much, my strength hold at the same level.  This has never happened before.

io856

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2009, 05:21:45 PM »
neurological adaptation

polychronopolous

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2009, 05:22:53 PM »
Let's discuss Classical music instead....  ::)

andreisdaman

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2009, 05:25:23 PM »
same thing here....my strenght is increasing but I am not growing much...probably because I had to cut calories to lose fat

io856

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2009, 05:29:03 PM »
think of it this way... two ways to adapt to strength training... neurological adaptations (recruitment of muscle fibers, increased efficency) or hypertrophy (sacroplasmic, myofibrillar) now... which of these mechanisms will the body take preference of in a surplus and which one in a deficit? simple...

Hulkotron

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2009, 07:51:24 PM »
The maximum tension (Fmax) exerted by the contractile machinery of the muscle is the product of (1) its physiological cross-sectional area (PCSA) and (2) its specific tension (ST).  The actual muscle force developed by a muscle is a (nonlinear) function of its Fmax, its active state (i.e. the proportion of bound and unbound actomyosin crossbridges, the number and type of recruited motor units, the firing frequency of those motor units) and its kinematic state (i.e. the length and velocity of the contractile elements).  

Specific tension it theoretically constant, so we will presume you have not changed it through training.  You have gained no size so we will presume PCSA has also not changed.  We will also assume the kinematics of your lifting technique have not changed substantially, so the muscle's kinematic states have not changed (although there is some evidence that resistance training can enhance the force-velocity characteristics of muscle without concurrent increases in muscle mass).  This leaves a change in the active state (i.e. neurological factors) as the only explanation for your enhanced muscular capabilities :)

In addition, your ability to move weight is most directly a function of the net moments your muscles develop at your joints.  Forces in protagonist muscles (e.g. the biceps during a curl) will increase the moment while forces in antagonist muscles (e.g. the triceps) will decrease the moment.  So it is possible that the actual strength of your individual muscles have not increased, but your degree of antagonistic coactivation has decreased.  This possibility could also be placed under the "neural factors" umbrella.

Rami

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2009, 08:00:41 PM »
Let's discuss Classical music instead....  ::)

What's wrong with that? It's relaxing after a busy day. I thought it was a good idea when I first saw the post.  It's not like music is an off topic on this board?


Classical music, nice n' relaxing in the afternoon.


[/youtube]






Rami

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2009, 08:02:29 PM »
The maximum tension (Fmax) exerted by the contractile machinery of the muscle is the product of (1) its physiological cross-sectional area (PCSA) and (2) its specific tension (ST).  The actual muscle force developed by a muscle is a (nonlinear) function of its Fmax, its active state (i.e. the proportion of bound and unbound actomyosin crossbridges, the number and type of recruited motor units, the firing frequency of those motor units) and its kinematic state (i.e. the length and velocity of the contractile elements).  

Specific tension it theoretically constant, so we will presume you have not changed it through training.  You have gained no size so we will presume PCSA has also not changed.  We will also assume the kinematics of your lifting technique have not changed substantially, so the muscle's kinematic states have not changed (although there is some evidence that resistance training can enhance the force-velocity characteristics of muscle without concurrent increases in muscle mass).  This leaves a change in the active state (i.e. neurological factors) as the only explanation for your enhanced muscular capabilities :)

In addition, your ability to move weight is most directly a function of the net moments your muscles develop at your joints.  Forces in protagonist muscles (e.g. the biceps during a curl) will increase the moment while forces in antagonist muscles (e.g. the triceps) will decrease the moment.  So it is possible that the actual strength of your individual has not increased, but your degree of antagonistic coactivation has decreased.  This possibility could also be placed under the "neural factors" umbrella.


epic knowledge. Thanks.

disco_stu

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2009, 08:03:51 PM »

Rami

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2009, 08:06:21 PM »
same thing here....my strenght is increasing but I am not growing much...probably because I had to cut calories to lose fat

Interesting. I'm starting to suspect genetic alteration of mankind due to energies of the galactic center lining up with our solar system. Maybe everyone is going through something similar right now.

disco_stu

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2009, 08:06:42 PM »
be careful though, what you dont want is too much neuro adaptation. it ends up meaning less fibre recruitment.

the biggest mistake BBs make is to change routines too much, and too frequently. believing that this "tricks" the muscles.  in reality it doesnt force adaptation to any specific demand so you end up making crap gains in strength and size...or even get smaller.

disco_stu

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2009, 08:08:35 PM »
Interesting. I'm starting to suspect genetic alteration of mankind due to energies of the galactic center lining up with our solar system. Maybe everyone is going through something similar right now.

nope not me. have you thought that perhaps this is all a part of your psychological condition?...paranoia, suspicion, generalisation, narcissism...do you hear voices?

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2009, 08:11:08 PM »
This year I have experienced suddenly increased strength, but not in size, what could be a reason for this? Even when I regularly do cardio, undercutting calories, cutting carbs or sometimes not sleeping very much, my strength hold at the same level.  This has never happened before.

Reps low, weight heavy, not enough volume. Dispite the the HIT fad for size, it's BS. The only way to gain size is volume.

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2009, 08:13:00 PM »
The maximum tension (Fmax) exerted by the contractile machinery of the muscle is the product of (1) its physiological cross-sectional area (PCSA) and (2) its specific tension (ST).  The actual muscle force developed by a muscle is a (nonlinear) function of its Fmax, its active state (i.e. the proportion of bound and unbound actomyosin crossbridges, the number and type of recruited motor units, the firing frequency of those motor units) and its kinematic state (i.e. the length and velocity of the contractile elements).  

Specific tension it theoretically constant, so we will presume you have not changed it through training.  You have gained no size so we will presume PCSA has also not changed.  We will also assume the kinematics of your lifting technique have not changed substantially, so the muscle's kinematic states have not changed (although there is some evidence that resistance training can enhance the force-velocity characteristics of muscle without concurrent increases in muscle mass).  This leaves a change in the active state (i.e. neurological factors) as the only explanation for your enhanced muscular capabilities :)

In addition, your ability to move weight is most directly a function of the net moments your muscles develop at your joints.  Forces in protagonist muscles (e.g. the biceps during a curl) will increase the moment while forces in antagonist muscles (e.g. the triceps) will decrease the moment.  So it is possible that the actual strength of your individual muscles have not increased, but your degree of antagonistic coactivation has decreased.  This possibility could also be placed under the "neural factors" umbrella.

Nice cut and paste!

disco_stu

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2009, 08:14:18 PM »
Reps low, weight heavy, not enough volume. Dispite the the HIT fad for size, it's BS. The only way to gain size is volume.

omg you couldnt be more wrong.

the "HIT" as you and many others know it - i.e. dont have a clue...yes.. but HIT in the form that it is supposed to be conducted is the fundamental principle of muscular growth. dont complaina nd claim its BS just because you dont understand big words or can apply it correctly.

Hulkotron

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2009, 08:34:59 PM »
JME is an idiot disco_stu.  Pay no regard to him.

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2009, 08:39:23 PM »
JME is an idiot disco_stu.  Pay no regard to him.

Yes, of course I am ::)

chaos

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2009, 08:40:52 PM »
Yes, of course I am ::)
You've been married 5 times Coach.........you can't be all that bright. ;)
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2009, 08:48:36 PM »
I'm rarely wrong on this subject. The only idiots are the ones who actually believe that crap.

bigdumbbell

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2009, 09:00:33 PM »
I'm rarely wrong on this subject. The only idiots are the ones who actually believe that crap.
lover boy, how many time HAVE you been married?

io856

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2009, 09:03:43 PM »
total volume is important but total intensity/load is also very important now to avoid the "drop off" in strength after first sets one may see benefit from steering clear of American "once a week" training protocols

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2009, 09:04:50 PM »
lover boy, how many time HAVE you been married?

Seems the attention span of this board is limited and can't stick to the subject at hand.

Hulkotron

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2009, 09:08:53 PM »
total volume is important but total intensity/load is also very important now to avoid the "drop off" in strength after first sets one may see benefit from steering clear of American "once a week" training protocols

io could you expand on this?

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2009, 09:10:25 PM »
total volume is important but total intensity/load is also very important now to avoid the "drop off" in strength after first sets one may see benefit from steering clear of American "once a week" training protocols

I agree with this 100%. I for one, have NEVER baught into the theory from pseudo science that training one body part per week in a HIT protocol will cause hypertrophy. In short, it's BS.

io856

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Re: Reasons for sudden strenght gains, but not size?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2009, 09:13:34 PM »
I agree with this 100%. I for one, have NEVER baught into the theory from pseudo science that training one body part per week in a HIT protocol will cause hypertrophy. In short, it's BS.
good stuff

Nosaka K, Newton M. Repeated Eccentric Exercise Bouts Do Not Exacerbate Muscle Damage and Repair. Journal of Strength and Conditioning. 2002 Feb;16(1):117-122.

McLester JR., Bishop P., & Guilliams M. Comparison of 1 and 3 day per week of equal volume resistance training in experienced subjects. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 1999 31(5 Supp) pp.S117