Author Topic: Senate Health Care Bill 1502 pages - WHY ONLY 72 HOURS TO READ THE FINAL BILL?  (Read 1446 times)

Soul Crusher

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Health Care Bill - 1502 PAGES

http://finance.senate.gov/press/Bpress/2009press/prb101909.pdf


Can someone please explain why we are only going to have 72 hours to read the final version of this POS considering it goes into effect in 2013? 

Anyone?

 

BM OUT

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Thats not even the question that needs to be asked.The real question is why does it take effect in 2013?If people are dying,why wait till 2013 to enact it?Oh ,thats right,thats after Obamas re-election bid.They know its going to another failure already.

Soul Crusher

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Thats not even the question that needs to be asked.The real question is why does it take effect in 2013?If people are dying,why wait till 2013 to enact it?Oh ,thats right,thats after Obamas re-election bid.They know its going to another failure already.

Funny how not one response on this thread until Billy penned in. 

kcballer

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That is a little worrisome i admit Billy.  I too, would like an explanation.  Too many Americans are dying for them to make political points out of this.
Abandon every hope...

shootfighter1

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Reform should not wait till 2013.  The reason they are doing it is to collect tax dollars up front to fund it (so as to make it look like it doesn't cost so much).

No bill should be 1500 pages, f'n lawyers.

kcballer

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Reform should not wait till 2013.  The reason they are doing it is to collect tax dollars up front to fund it (so as to make it look like it doesn't cost so much).

No bill should be 1500 pages, f'n lawyers.

Unfortunately shoot in today's society you have to err on the side of caution and include countless pages for certain legal reasons.  It's like a contact these days.  Some places have 50-60 page contracts with hundreds of stipulations many of which are not applicable but for legal reasons and the just in case mentality are included. 
Abandon every hope...

BM OUT

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Unfortunately shoot in today's society you have to err on the side of caution and include countless pages for certain legal reasons.  It's like a contact these days.  Some places have 50-60 page contracts with hundreds of stipulations many of which are not applicable but for legal reasons and the just in case mentality are included. 

I think they put in that many pages to confuse those voting on it,to confuse the voters to put stuff in stealthly.They are not honest,which is why ,in one breath they say "people are dying" but in the next breath say "it will be enacxted in 2013.Which is why they say they want tranparency,but in the next breath wont allow anyone to read it.

Soul Crusher

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I think they put in that many pages to confuse those voting on it,to confuse the voters to put stuff in stealthly.They are not honest,which is why ,in one breath they say "people are dying" but in the next breath say "it will be enacxted in 2013.Which is why they say they want tranparency,but in the next breath wont allow anyone to read it.

100%.  the only reason this thing is 1520 pages is to utterly confuse people and scare them into supporting this. 

240 is Back

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they're pushing it thru so it passes. 

If you give advance notice, you have dimwit party hangers-on like Palin choosing one point and tweeting about it, ala "Death panels", a concept already in existence from long before Obama took the oath.

So, just like the Patriot act, it'll be slammed down our throats .   You all remember why we didn't have time to talk about the patriot act, right?  A member of the govt mailed anthrax to lib reporters, lib leaders, and the hall where the bill was to be discussed. 

You dickheads were okay wtih that kind of 'push thru tactic'.... suddenly you give a shit when it's a Dem shoving legislation thru in 3 days.  Welcome to the world of "YOU let this happen".

Fuccking crybabies, suddenly giving a shit now.  of course it's BS to do it in 3 days, but you only give a crap because it's a (D) pushing the bill.  You get what you deserve on this one.

Soul Crusher

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they're pushing it thru so it passes. 

If you give advance notice, you have dimwit party hangers-on like Palin choosing one point and tweeting about it, ala "Death panels", a concept already in existence from long before Obama took the oath.

So, just like the Patriot act, it'll be slammed down our throats .   You all remember why we didn't have time to talk about the patriot act, right?  A member of the govt mailed anthrax to lib reporters, lib leaders, and the hall where the bill was to be discussed. 

You dickheads were okay wtih that kind of 'push thru tactic'.... suddenly you give a shit when it's a Dem shoving legislation thru in 3 days.  Welcome to the world of "YOU let this happen".

Fuccking crybabies, suddenly giving a shit now.  of course it's BS to do it in 3 days, but you only give a crap because it's a (D) pushing the bill.  You get what you deserve on this one.

Cant someone learn from their mistakes? 

Kazan

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they're pushing it thru so it passes. 

If you give advance notice, you have dimwit party hangers-on like Palin choosing one point and tweeting about it, ala "Death panels", a concept already in existence from long before Obama took the oath.

So, just like the Patriot act, it'll be slammed down our throats .   You all remember why we didn't have time to talk about the patriot act, right?  A member of the govt mailed anthrax to lib reporters, lib leaders, and the hall where the bill was to be discussed. 

You dickheads were okay wtih that kind of 'push thru tactic'.... suddenly you give a shit when it's a Dem shoving legislation thru in 3 days.  Welcome to the world of "YOU let this happen".

Fuccking crybabies, suddenly giving a shit now.  of course it's BS to do it in 3 days, but you only give a crap because it's a (D) pushing the bill.  You get what you deserve on this one.

You should change your screen name to the quantifier ::)
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The Showstoppa

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Cant someone learn from their mistakes? 

Nope.  EVERY mistake this admin makes is somehow turned into a bash Bush, or Palin, or Republicans, etc... instead of addressing the issue.  As if everybody who is ticked off about this ramrod job was ok with how the patriot act was handled.  They have no substansive argument, much like their entire "platform" except bashing to deflect attention.

BTW, 33, are you keeping up with the Virginia governors race?  Could be a prelude to 2012.  Very interesting.

Kazan

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What amazes me is the Constitution of the US is what 12 pages long, but this needs to be 1500
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Soul Crusher

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Nope.  EVERY mistake this admin makes is somehow turned into a bash Bush, or Palin, or Republicans, etc... instead of addressing the issue.  As if everybody who is ticked off about this ramrod job was ok with how the patriot act was handled.  They have no substansive argument, much like their entire "platform" except bashing to deflect attention.

BTW, 33, are you keeping up with the Virginia governors race?  Could be a prelude to 2012.  Very interesting.

I always expected VA to go to the GOP.  NJ to me is more interesting on how that disaster turns out.   

The Showstoppa

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I always expected VA to go to the GOP.  NJ to me is more interesting on how that disaster turns out.   

If you look at the VA governship starting in the mid-90's it's been a pretty good gauge of the national collective.  You have a largely rural state where the Republicans are strong, but with the DC sprawl to the north, it weighs in heavily.  Interesting state to follow for 2012.

240 is Back

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sure - but there will be a lot of ppl here who say "we HAD to push thru the pat act in 72 hours... but this is different!"

headhuntersix

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Are u fucking serious.....the Patriot act was about ensuring that laws put in place to keep our intell organizations from sharing information, were stopped. It allowed organizations to protect us....it wasn't rushed through. This is ridiculous 240..ur bullshit Bush equivalency arguments don't work.
L

240 is Back

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Are u fucking serious.....the Patriot act was about ensuring that laws put in place to keep our intell organizations from sharing information, were stopped. It allowed organizations to protect us....it wasn't rushed through. This is ridiculous 240..ur bullshit Bush equivalency arguments don't work.

congress never read it.   it ws never discussed on the floor because some dick that worked for the govt mailed anthrax to the building where discussion was to take place.

a few senators were criticial of this, and they got some too.

when lib media heads spoke of it, they go some too.

You're saying it wasn't rushed thru?  *regardless of how you feel about the bill, it was pushed thru without them even being able to read it - they had to vote first*

Soul Crusher

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congress never read it.   it ws never discussed on the floor because some dick that worked for the govt mailed anthrax to the building where discussion was to take place.

a few senators were criticial of this, and they got some too.

when lib media heads spoke of it, they go some too.

You're saying it wasn't rushed thru?  *regardless of how you feel about the bill, it was pushed thru without them even being able to read it - they had to vote first*

AGAIN - WHY MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE?

shootfighter1

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I'm sure thats one of the main reasons kc...but when lawyers get involved, they make things much more complicated then it needs to be.

Lawmakers do not read 1500 pages.  They have their staff go through it and give summary reports at most.  Something's gotta change, perhaps take out a lot of the legalease or force the author to also craft a bullet point summary that is readable (100 pages or less).  Anything that is over 100 pages has a good chance not to be read.

shootfighter1

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Just as bad is the ability to add ammendments and pork until the last hours before voting.
The administration had a great idea when they said all big bills like this would be transparent.  Available for viewing well before the vote and eliminating (or significantly reducing) the ability to add pork.  Unfortunately, they reverted back to the same washington tactics that were criticized.

Soul Crusher

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Just as bad is the ability to add ammendments and pork until the last hours before voting.
The administration had a great idea when they said all big bills like this would be transparent.  Available for viewing well before the vote and eliminating (or significantly reducing) the ability to add pork.  Unfortunately, they reverted back to the same washington tactics that were criticized.

Shoot - go read the WSJ today.  They detail how docs are really going to get royally screwed under this mess. 


shootfighter1

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Ok, I will look.

I know they were talking about taking out the provision that corrects the cuts in reimbursement.  I don't mean the new proposed cuts in this plan, this is something different that has been going on every year for many years.  Every year there's a vote that saves drastic cuts in reimbursement based on some horrible original reimbursement formula by the government.  The AMA is mainly behind the president's plan because they included a stipend to keep cuts from occuring for the next 10 years.  Now I hear they may take that out...if they do, you'll have nearly all physician groups opposing the plan.  We can't survive if our reimbursements are cut, especially in primary care.  Remember, all insurance companies base their reimbursement on medicare.  If medicare is cut (or not yearly corrected as it has been), we loose payment from nearly all insurers.  

A huge # of private docs have given up and been forced to join hospitals because overhead costs are too high, then they are told what to do and how many people they have to see per day.  Primary care is best in private group offices...so it's the patients that suffer too.

Soul Crusher

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Ok, I will look.

I know they were talking about taking out the provision that corrects the cuts in reimbursement.  Every year there's a vote that saves drastic cuts in reimbursement based on some horrible original bad formula by the government.  The AMA is mainly behind the president's plan because they included a stipend to keep cuts from occuring for the next 10 years.  Now I hear they may take that out...if they do, you'll have nearly all physician groups opposing the plan.  We can't survive if our reimbursements are cut, especially in primary care.  Remember, all insurance companies base their reimbursement on medicare.  If medicare is cut (or not yearly corrected as it has been), we loose payment from nearly all insurers.  

A huge # of private docs have given up and been forced to join hospitals because overhead costs are too high, then they are told what to do and how many people they have to see per day.  Primary care is best in private group offices...so it's the patients that suffer too.

No kidding.  We are going to have DMV style health care under this.

 

shootfighter1

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The AMA, AAFP and other physician organizations have to lobby congress every year to temporary fix this drastic cut that would occur otherwise.  I don't remember all the details but it has something to do with the original medicare reimbursement formula.  Every year I see it in the journals.  These groups have for years been asking congress to fix the formula so they don't have to fight against cuts every year.  The bills did create a longer fix but now they may take that out, then they will lose the few physician organizations that have given support.

Unlike other grants/payments (ex. social security benefits) that increase with inflation and cost of living, we have a yearly fight to battle against a decrease in payment/reimbursement for services.  Primary care salaries have remained the same for the last 10 years as costs of living have gone up and overall docs are working more hours, have more debt, longer schooling and seeing far more patients than docs in previous decades...and they are pushed around by hospital administrators.  The average general doc (primary care, peds, internists) make $130,000/yr if you are employed.  Private docs have the potential to make more but often struggle for years before they get there.