And The Left Wants Taxpayers to Fund This CRAP!!!!

[Colossus_500]

When the mother first concieves and no vital organs have started to form, the child is basically microscopic. Its hard to argue that an abortion at that point is killing human life.

This is an argument that is used quite often as well to defend abortion.  But when you think about the fact that pregnancy cannot be confirmed until 6-8 weeks.  There is a heartbeat at that point.  This is why Planned Parenthood is against the use of ultrasounds in their clinics.   The lobbyists in Washington fight so hard to deny this type of legislation to move forward...ultrasounds prove life.  Statistics show that whenever the mother sees her child on an ultrasound, the rate of abortions that are followed through is next to nothing. 

Just something to think about for those who believe abortion should be allowed. 


You're right though.  Even at this point, abortion is overused.  good point.

[George Whorewell]

Do you support the use of birth control ala the morning after pill?

One problem is that a lot of those who are staunch anti abortion activists, are also against sex ed and the use of birth control pills as well. I think that in a lot of ways that hurts the anti abortion argument.

Going back to that video, most people who support abortion don't realize that Margret Sanger and the rest of  the Planned Parenthood crowd were abhorent racists that wanted Blacks and Catholics not to breed.

Switching gears for a second-- does anyone else find it comical that certain elements of Obama's cabniet ( one of those whack job Czars whose name I can't recall) wants to allow enviromental groups to assert the rights of individual animals, rivers, and other natural inanimate objects in court?

A lot of the pro abortion crowd would agree. These individuals consist of your typical enviromental nut job vegan types that support PETA. Of course these individuals are all for asserting the rights of rocks, trees, chickens and brussel sprouts like the Obama czar I alluded to above. It's both sad and hysterical that an unborn fetus is worthless to these people, but that they think things like a turkey or a mountain should have legal rights.

[Skip8282]

Sorry for the delayed response, bro.  I missed your post. 

My point in that question is that, in order to argue to preserve or take a life, you must HAVE life in the first place.   

I've mentioned this before about this topic.  Life never became more real to me than when I first saw my oldest child on a ultrasound.  She was but a speck and a heartbeat, yet I connected with this human being and identified her as a part of me.  It was life in is most infinitesimal form.  It was amazing.  It was at that point that I forever solidified my argument that life begins at conception.    If you look at life from that standpoint, then it's hard to see how America allows it's citizens to inject saline into that "speck and a heartbeat" so it will stop living.  Or worse, partially deliver a fully formed infant, only to crack his/her skull and suck the brains out....then deliver the rest of the body so he/she can be left on a table to die.   

That's great.  I have 3 kids myself.  But, this statement, more than any other you make, leads to the heart of the issue:


"If you look at life from that standpoint, then it's hard to see how America allows it's citizens to inject saline into that "speck and a heartbeat" so it will stop living."


First, not everybody sees things from your standpoint.  And, I won't agree that life begins at conception.  As when life begins simply can't be proven, it seems to me that we should err on the side of the woman.  It is, after all, her body.

Second, even if I were to accept your premise, the rights of a woman to do with her body as she chooses trump any rights bestowed upon the fetus, IMO. 

Controlling what an individual may or may not do with their body is a slippery slope.  I've seen threads on here where people say it will be a cold day in hell before they force a mandatory vaccination of H1N1 on them.  Yet it's OK to tell another what they may or may not do with their bodies?

Freedom of choice shouldn't end, just because others do not share your point of view.   

[James]

I will never vote for a pro-choice candidate

[Hereford]

Colussus, answer my question.

[James]

Hey Colussus,

So are you all for unwanted kids being born into the world then?

Is there a shortage of people these days or something?

So are you for killing innocent children ?

[Hugo Chavez]

i'm not looking at those pictures.  no way colossus... lately it freaks me out to see anything happen to a baby.  I had to turn off an episode of House when this mother left her baby in a bath with running water.  I just see/think of my baby when I see that stuff and flip out.

[OzmO]

Most of you won't even try to look at these pics.  And it's because you KNOW that this is so wrong!!!! Our tax money SHOULD NOT be funding abortions!!!!!     

I'm going to post some of the images that I found during the election when trying to warn of what then-candidate Obama wants to do with regard to abortion and being a puppet to Planned Parenthood! 

LOOK AT THE PICTURES, people!!!!! you KNOW this is wrong!!!!   

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/behind-19/

Are you ok with our tax money funding more welfare?

Or more more emergency room cost from basement abortions?

Or how about more babies in dumpsters?

Or how about 3000 dead young americans and thousands of more maimed and wounded based on BS intell?

[Bindare_Dundat]

I think abortion is too difficult an issue to be inflexible on.

I only support first trimester abortions and then after that I am totally against abortion under all circumstances ( unless its rape, incest or to save the mothers life).

When the mother first concieves and no vital organs have started to form, the child is basically microscopic. Its hard to argue that an abortion at that point is killing human life.

However, in America abortion is overused and some women use it like an effecitve form of birth control which is disgusting.

I can see both sides of the argument, but overall I don't think a black and white- all or nothing approach is appropriate. Abortion should be allowed with certain iron clad restrictions in place.

I totally agree with this but forgot to mention in it in my first statement. Its interesting all the photos look like 3rd trimester babies to play on the emotions of people. A picture of a microscopinc tadpole wouldnt be as effective. When do most women have an abortion?

[Colossus_500]

Hey Colussus,

So are you all for unwanted kids being born into the world then?

Is there a shortage of people these days or something?

Sorry bro.  I wasn't purposely trying to avoid you.    I normally don't post during the weekend.   

Yes, we want these unwanted children.  Can you imagine how many geniuses we've "exterminated"?  Yes, it's quite possible that we would have another Jeffrey Domer in the bunch, but on the who, it's quite likely that we've done away with more Good for the world than we have Bad.  Would you agree with that?

In answer to your second question.......YES...the world population has, in fact, decreased, EUROPE to be more specific.  That population is dwindling quickly.  I believe that's in direct correlation to the viewpoint that Europeans hold...the same viewpoint that the secularized progressive society in America wants to to move towards. 

[Bindare_Dundat]

  Can you imagine how many geniuses we've "exterminated"?  Not many. Yes, it's quite possible that we would have another Jeffrey Domer (that's "Dahmer" genius    ) in the bunch, but on the who (on the who?)  , it's quite likely that we've done away with more Good for the world than we have Bad.  Would you agree with that? No. We've done away with more "irrelevant" than anything else.

 

[Colossus_500]

Hey, OzmO!!!  good to see you, bro.   

Are you ok with our tax money funding more welfare?

Nope, but is it safe for me to assume that you think that welfare is the ONLY solution to the problem that you speak of, and that I am in agreement with that solution?  Surely, we have other options to help our fellow man.  Agreed?  How about working towards more responsibility?  Welfare is the government's solution to a problem that got out of hand when we, as a nation, began to do away with out our social responsibility.

Or more emergency room cost from basement abortions?

Hate to break it to you, bro....but it's still happening.  I don't think that's ever stopped.  Again, you're only looking at the reactionary solutions to something that we could be working at more proactively....together. 

Or how about more babies in dumpsters?

This is what happens to aborted babies now...in the dumpsters!!!!  If they go in the dumpsters alive, they've got a better chance then don't they?

Or how about 3000 dead young americans and thousands of more maimed and wounded based on BS intell?

3000 dead young Americans IS a travesty, isn't it? 

TRY 50,000,000 dead young Americans?

you do the math, bro.


ps.  all that aside...it's good to see you again, bro.   

[Colossus_500]

I totally agree with this but forgot to mention in it in my first statement. Its interesting all the photos look like 3rd trimester babies to play on the emotions of people. A picture of a microscopinc tadpole wouldnt be as effective. When do most women have an abortion?

8-9 weeks.  That's what I was explaining to someone earlier in this thread.  I saw my oldest for the first time at that point...she was but a speck and a heartbeat.  I can't explain how it was that I connected with my child, before I knew if the child was a boy or a girl... before I knew that the child had blue eyes, or green eyes, or brown eyes....before I knew ANY of those features, I connected to that child.   

If you're asking when it is that an abortion takes place, then I'm assuming that you never seen an ultrasound. 

Next time you have a friend or family member announce that they are pregnant, I guarantee you that they will have a picture "of their baby" at a mere 8-10 weeks from the sonogram.... it's pretty amazing. 

[shootfighter1]

This is a really tough issue and there are intense, valid opinions on both sides.  This is one of the few issues where logic isn't the deciding factor.  I guess I am kind of with George on this one.

I don't think taxpayers should be funding any abortions...except if the health of the mother was at stake.

"Nope, but is it safe for me to assume that you think that welfare is the ONLY solution to the problem that you speak of, and that I am in agreement with that solution?  Surely, we have other options to help our fellow man.  Agreed?  How about working towards more responsibility?  Welfare is the government's solution to a problem that got out of hand when we, as a nation, began to do away with out our social responsibility".

This is a great responce, particularly the last sentence.  Even with all the welfare, entitlements and money thrown around, there hasn't been any real strides in changing the maladaptive patterns, family dysfunction and poor decision-making of many welfare recipients or the poor community.  It shows that lack of money is not the main factor.

[Colossus_500]

Here's a great example of the point I've made about ultrasounds and why Planned Parenthood does not want laws mandating that the mother see their child before deciding to terminate the baby's life.


Planned Parenthood Director Leaves, Has Change of Heart
http://www.kbtx.com/local/headlines/68441827.html#

Planned Parenthood has been a part of Abby Johnson's life for the past eight years; that is until last month, when Abby resigned. Johnson said she realized she wanted to leave, after watching an ultrasound of an abortion procedure.

"I just thought I can't do this anymore, and it was just like a flash that hit me and I thought that's it," said Jonhson.

She handed in her resignation October 6. Johnson worked as the Bryan Planned Parenthood Director for two years.

According to Johnson, the non-profit was struggling under the weight of a tough economy, and changing it's business model from one that pushed prevention, to one that focused on abortion.

"It seemed like maybe that's not what a lot of people were believing any more because that's not where the money was. The money wasn't in family planning, the money wasn't in prevention, the money was in abortion and so I had a problem with that," said Johnson.

Johnson said she was told to bring in more women who wanted abortions, something the Episcopalian church goer recently became convicted about.

"I feel so pure in heart (since leaving). I don't have this guilt, I don't have this burden on me anymore that's how I know this conversion was a spiritual conversion."

Johnson now supports the Coalition For Life, the pro-life group with a building down the street from Planned Parenthood. Coalition volunteers can regularly be seen praying on the sidewalk in front of Planned Parenthood. Johnson has been meeting with the coalition's executive director, Shawn Carney, and has prayed with volunteers outside Planned Parenthood.

On Friday both Johnson and the Coalition For Life were issued temporary restraining orders filed by Planned Parenthood.

Rochelle Tafolla, a Planned Parenthood spokesperson issued the following statement: "We regret being forced to turn to the courts to protect the safety and confidentiality of our clients and staff, however, in this instance it is absolutely necessary."

The temporary restraining order contends that Planned Parenthood would be irreparably harmed by the disclosure of certain information, but does not bar Johnson or Coalition For Life volunteers from the premises.

As of Sunday evening, neither Johnson nor Carney had seen the complaint filed against them that prompted the restraining order.

A hearing about the order has been set for November 10.