Author Topic: Senate health bill to include public option  (Read 717 times)

Skip8282

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Senate health bill to include public option
« on: October 26, 2009, 03:30:59 PM »
Not dead yet...



WASHINGTON - Health care legislation heading for the Senate floor will give millions of Americans the option of purchasing government-run insurance coverage, Majority Leader Harry Reid announced Monday, although he stopped short of claiming the 60 votes needed to pass a plan steeped in controversy.

Reid, D-Nev., said individual states would have the choice of opting out of the program.

His announcement was cheered by liberal lawmakers, greeted less effusively by the White House and noted with a noncommittal response by Democratic moderates whose votes will be pivotal.

Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, the only Republican to vote with Democrats on health care so far this year, issued a statement saying she was "deeply disappointed" in the approach the Democratic leader had chosen.

Reid said, "While the public option is not a silver bullet, I believe it's an important way to ensure competition and to level the playing field for patients with the insurance industry." He said a long-delayed Senate debate on President Barack Obama's call for an overhaul of the health care system would begin as soon as the Congressional Budget Office completes a mandatory assessment of the bill's cost and impact on coverage.



Full Story:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33479225/ns/politics-health_care_reform/

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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2009, 03:33:14 PM »
no snowe, but he might get it.

right or wrong, I dunno.  I've heard totally convining arguments from both sides.

But to bet against Obama on this?  Nah.

Skip8282

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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2009, 03:42:46 PM »
no snowe, but he might get it.

right or wrong, I dunno.  I've heard totally convining arguments from both sides.

But to bet against Obama on this?  Nah.


I'm not sure where I stand on this.  The other thread about insurance company money got me to thinking that maybe both the docs and the health insurers muddy the finances so that nobody can tell what the hell's going on.  Doctors overbilling, insurance companies underpaying, but BOTH seem to be making out pretty good.  The only losers seem to be the customers!

If the Republicans have some substantive reform ideas, NOW is the time.  Crying about how much the Democrat plan sucks just doesn't cut it for me.  I'm still waiting for a viable Republican alternative...not holding my breath.

shootfighter1

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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2009, 04:10:50 PM »
Skip, believe me, it's not the doctors.  Remember, most docs are party of hospital groups which are ran by practice administrators and nursing supervisors, totally different than the model used to be.  Few even set rates anymore.  The practice can bill all they want for a service but reimbursement rates are set for each insurance company and for medicare/medicaid and if the doc doesn't like it, tough shit.  Overhead has gone up, # of patients your forced to see per hr has gone up and wages have dropped adjusted to cost of living compared to previous years.  That's why many docs folded into hospital systems, it's too expensive to run a practice with overhead and staff for what you get reimbursed.  The only docs making a lot are a few of the subspecialties, certainly not the primary care docs.


shootfighter1

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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2009, 04:15:51 PM »
I am totally against a public option right now.  I believe it is a segway for more government run healthcare and will push doctors into big systems.  Every government ran program has so much waste, from medicare to the VA to the states like Mass who tried this.  The government should be setting laws and standards that protect us from unfair Insurance company practices.  The gov does not need to provide healthcare to do that.  They also need comprehensive malpractice reform and competition across state lines.  The more competition the better.  Let the insurance companies compete against one another.

Honestly, this is about progressive and traditional liberal democrats moving healthcare closer to government controlled.


GigantorX

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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2009, 07:45:08 PM »
I more or less agree. The govt. should use its power to create and enforce a level playing field through firm and fair laws that can be easily enforced. A level playing field does not require govt. to use mass amounts of taxpayer money to become involved and intertwined in entire segments of the economy.

Health care, banks, mortgages, lending....it needs to stop.

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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2009, 05:37:17 AM »
The "opt-out" clause doesn't exclude you from paying for the public option either.  I find that to be highway robbery, or otherwise known as business as usual for our government.

Don't steal...the government doesn't like competition.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2009, 05:42:52 AM »
The "opt-out" clause doesn't exclude you from paying for the public option either.  I find that to be highway robbery, or otherwise known as business as usual for our government.

Don't steal...the government doesn't like competition.

This is going nowhere as well. 

This is another scheme of the govt to steal money. 

How anyone can believe a damn thing from these politicians is beyond my comprehension. 

60 Minutes just did a special showing that medicare fraud in Miami takes in more money than the illegal drug trade. 

And some of you think the Govt can run health care?

What the hell is wrong with some of you?   

Soul Crusher

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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2009, 05:49:38 AM »
OPT OUT IS A SENATE CON
boblonsberry.com ^ | 10/27/09 | Bob Lonsberry


Posted on Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:16:53 AM by shortstop

What a con.


The opt-out clause they’re putting on the public option in the Senate, what a bald-faced con. This is a fraud with a capital F.

I’ll explain, but first let me define the terms.

The “public option” is Democratspeak for the government getting into the insurance business. It taxes you, it collects a premium, and then it gives you crappy health care -- after a long wait. “Opt out” is something new they thought of over the weekend. It says that the public option would be, well, an option, and that individual states could opt out of it. They could decide, by a vote of their legislature, that they don’t want their residents to be clients of the federal public option.

The opt-out provision lets Democrat senators from moderate or conservative states go home and tell their constituents that they didn’t vote for the public option for their particular state. These senators can pretend to oppose it while simultaneously supporting it.

But like I said, it’s all a con. Nothing more than a shell game intended to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people. If the opt-out option goes forward, it is the same as imposing the public option on the entire country.

There are three reasons why I say that.

The first is that while a state may choose not to benefit by the public option, it may not choose not to pay for the public option. The operating deficits of the public option -- and there will be operating deficits -- will be made up out of the public treasury. Residents of all the states pay income taxes which go into the public treasury. The same is true of all other federal taxes, on individuals, businesses and transactions. It all goes into one pot.

So everybody pays for the public option, even if they or their state choose not to benefit by it.

The second reason is like the first.

The public option is essentially a false insurance plan offered by the federal government. False in that, unlike real insurance, it won’t be a shared-risk pool, it will be an indemnification. It won’t have to balance its books, it won’t have to operate in the black. It will be playing by a different set of rules -- most significantly the rule that it can suck money out of the treasury any time it wants. It will quack like a duck, but bite like a tiger -- especially if you’re a real insurance company.

The public option won’t compete with real insurance companies, it will undercut them. It will “sell” health-care coverage at a loss and destabilize the real insurance companies that try to match its premiums.

And that’s no good. First, because most of us rightly trust our insurance company more than we trust our government. Second, because the insurance-company money lost in the opt-in states will have to be made up in the opt-out states.

So in an opt-out state, not only will you have to pay taxes to support a program you don’t use, you’ll have to pay higher insurance premiums to bolster a company being gutted by the public option.


Thus far, opt-out is a lose-lose -- and we haven’t even gotten to the Constitution yet.

Specifically the Fourteenth Amendment which, among other things, guarantees equal protection under law. The Fourteenth Amendment has been held to guarantee equal access to government benefit.

Which means that the first day a state actually opts out, some liberal activist is going to file a lawsuit in federal court claiming that his/her/its rights are being denied. The argument will be that in some other state there is access to this federal benefit, but not in this state, and that is the unequal application of federal largesse. For good measure they will throw in the fact that their federal taxes -- as if liberal activists paid any taxes -- are paying for something they are not getting.

I predict it would take an activist federal judge about a nanosecond to impose an injunction and the opt out would be opted out. It would be found to be an unfair and arguably unconstitutional denial of access to a federal program.

And that’s all she wrote.

At that point, the public option would be nationwide, not by congressional vote, but by judicial decree.

And the Democrat senators will laugh themselves silly -- in private -- while pretending to be astounded and dumbfounded in public. They would say a few words about activist judges and about how this isn’t what they intended, and then back in the cloakroom they’d be high-fiving one another and preparing to receive the Iron Cross from Caesar Obama.

This is all a con.

Obama and the liberals want the public option. It is the stepping stone to what they really want -- a single payer. And “single payer” is Democrat code for “socialized medicine.”

And the opt-out fraud allows them to lie themselves one step closer to socialized medicine.

I don’t know whether to be more offended by the underhandedness of this, or by the presumption that we were so stupid we wouldn’t catch on to it.


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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2009, 06:13:01 AM »
no snowe, but he might get it.

right or wrong, I dunno.  I've heard totally convining arguments from both sides.

But to bet against Obama on this?  Nah.

Your exactly whats wrong with the country.You think this is a sport where Obama wins or looks bad.This is VERY bad for the country.We will ALL be under the governments health plan.Ever try to buy a stamp at the post office or go to the DMV?Multiply that by a thousand and thats what we are looking at.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2009, 06:31:00 AM »
Your exactly whats wrong with the country.You think this is a sport where Obama wins or looks bad.This is VERY bad for the country.We will ALL be under the governments health plan.Ever try to buy a stamp at the post office or go to the DMV?Multiply that by a thousand and thats what we are looking at.

shootfighter1

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Re: Senate health bill to include public option
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2009, 07:45:58 AM »
I pretty much agree with that article.  This opt out idea was invented to resurrect the government ran option.  Liberals want government controlled and taxpayor funded healthcare.  They believe it's the right thing to do.  Don't be fooled by this opt out idea (which is stupid for the reasons sited in the above article).

Just like the stimulus didn't work as they told us it would, this opt out idea won't either.  It will lead to more gov control of healthcare and more taxpayor $ to fund it's over budget run.  Just like medicare is underbudgeted every year and taxpayors are on the line.

Encourage the government to help make laws, regulations to protect people and encourage competition, not to run healthcare.