BLAST vs. Slow and Steady cycles?

[need2bhuge]

I was advised by a pretty knowledgable person to administer 500mg of test ED for 30 days, then take a 20 day break and repeat.  He SWORE this was how alot of pro's have added their size.  He is on the inside loop 100%, and he has prepped a few of the pro's i know this 100%, so maybe there is a method to his madness?  I realize there is also a number of other factors combined like insulin use, growth factors and HGH, but this got me thinking. 

Do heavy blast cycles like this really outweigh a slow and steady cycle for say 10-14 weeks of maybe 1-2g total gear a week?

Which also poses the question.  Does mega dosing really work?   I mean it seems alot of pro's turn pro then all of a sudden add 20-30lbs to their stage weight over a year or two.  I seriously doubt they said to themselves "ok yea now legs get serious with this diet and train hard now". 

[jerseymuscles113]

500mgs isn't a high dose its the recommended dose for first time users and 30 days that's like 4weeks which is way to short...a cycle shouldn't be anything under 10 preferably 12 weeks, and those are the minimums imo and most others for test....if your considering using aas's i'd recommend reading the sticky about newbie cycles it'l explain just about everything then ask a ? or 2 about what you didn't understand....but no 4week cycles you won't even notice it

[jerseymuscles113]

nvmd i read your post wrong i thought you said EW

[tbombz]

slow and steady wins the race...see the tortoise and hare... kids story... same holds true here... yes higher doses work better, but they dont work so much better that doing short cycles of them will get better gains than remaining on moderate cycles non stop will provide...

best wya to go for gains and for health is to keep doseages moderate and steady, and let time, diet, and training do the work.

[tstmaniac]

Agreed

[need2bhuge]

OK, well throw health and the good role model kick out the window.....

How much better do mega doses work and what is considered a mega dose thats effective?

[tbombz]

OK, well throw health and the good role model kick out the window.....

How much better do mega doses work and what is considered a mega dose thats effective?

i could care less about health personally, i already said that youll get better gains by going long periods of time on moderate doseages, then going short periods on high doses with periods in between on low or nothing at all.

mega doses do work better, but not a whole lot better. the most important thing in bodybuilding is consistancy. that goes for training, diet, AND roids. you must be consistant and do it non stop all year round (all three=training eating and roids)

[bigdarksnake]

A question to the guys that are on for prolonged periods of time are you able to keep your cholesterol in normal ranges? Is anything thrown out of whack in blood work results? There is little info on this type of stuff so any comments would help.

[jtsunami]

A question to the guys that are on for prolonged periods of time are you able to keep your cholesterol in normal ranges? Is anything thrown out of whack in blood work results? There is little info on this type of stuff so any comments would help.

nothing out of whack, keep on blood pressure med and keep diet reasonable and you should be Ok.

First post that would be 3500 mg a week, that is high, but why would you choose to inject test E everyday, instead of like 3 shots that are bigger mL and save your fuckin muscles from getting pinned so often?

jt

[tbombz]

A question to the guys that are on for prolonged periods of time are you able to keep your cholesterol in normal ranges? Is anything thrown out of whack in blood work results? There is little info on this type of stuff so any comments would help.

your good cholestrol will be very low over time, no matter what you do. there are prescription meds you can take.

[bigdarksnake]

Any suggestions on what extra meds are needed for prolonged periods? Which blood pressure meds and so on? Thanks for all the help guys!

[lesaucer]

I was advised by a pretty knowledgable person to administer 500mg of test ED for 30 days, then take a 20 day break and repeat.  He SWORE this was how alot of pro's have added their size.  He is on the inside loop 100%, and he has prepped a few of the pro's i know this 100%, so maybe there is a method to his madness?  I realize there is also a number of other factors combined like insulin use, growth factors and HGH, but this got me thinking. 

Do heavy blast cycles like this really outweigh a slow and steady cycle for say 10-14 weeks of maybe 1-2g total gear a week?

Which also poses the question.  Does mega dosing really work?   I mean it seems alot of pro's turn pro then all of a sudden add 20-30lbs to their stage weight over a year or two.  I seriously doubt they said to themselves "ok yea now legs get serious with this diet and train hard now". 

look at kevin levrone and it should make you think... 5-6months before an olympia, he was like 200pounds... then he just blow up to 270, then diet until 240 on stage, and he had one of the most amazing body of all time, do you think he was using low dosage slow and steady like a fucktard? hell no he used masssssive amounts of aas, just like everybody else does but, he was just smart by giving his body a big break off season...blast is key.. UNLESS you wanna be in big shape year round 

[Arnold jr]

i could care less about health personally, i already said that youll get better gains by going long periods of time on moderate doseages, then going short periods on high doses with periods in between on low or nothing at all.

Is this more or less a general comment or are you being serious? Don't misunderstand, I'm not one who's going to get on here and judge you...I've done a lot of things over the years that were far from the standpoint of "Optimal Health."

I had a thread here about a year ago or so that talked about "Risk" and how some level of risk will have to exist if you want to really push the envelope and reach the highest peak you can...I actually ended up creating an article based on this thread over at probodybuilding.com

mega doses do work better, but not a whole lot better. the most important thing in bodybuilding is consistancy. that goes for training, diet, AND roids. you must be consistant and do it non stop all year round (all three=training eating and roids)

Agreed, consistency overall is one of the if not the main key to getting the most success out of you're bodybuilding pursuits. However, the "do it non stop all year round " comment in regards to AAS is one I do not agree with...health reasons aside, coming off at some point is a necessity. I preach on here all the time about consistency, creating a new set-point and fighting against homeostasis. That said, there's a lot to be said about coming off and letting your body refresh...I'm not implying that you have to stay off for months on end and I'm not saying the "Time On = Time Off" is the best way to go to get the most gains...I'm simply saying that a "refreshing period" will do wonders for you body.

You're right, a lot of pro's stay on much longer than the average guy but a lot of pro's do come off at some point even if only for a little while. And this number of pro's that do this is not a small one.

[Fatpanda]

didn't dr poplov or someone post a study that showed the maximum saturation of a dose of test ? somewhere around 2g or so 

antone got the name of that study ? i couldn't find it when it was first posted.

candy do you remember ? it was you that linked his post here.

[tbombz]

Is this more or less a general comment or are you being serious? Don't misunderstand, I'm not one who's going to get on here and judge you...I've done a lot of things over the years that were far from the standpoint of "Optimal Health."

I had a thread here about a year ago or so that talked about "Risk" and how some level of risk will have to exist if you want to really push the envelope and reach the highest peak you can...I actually ended up creating an article based on this thread over at probodybuilding.com

Agreed, consistency overall is one of the if not the main key to getting the most success out of you're bodybuilding pursuits. However, the "do it non stop all year round " comment in regards to AAS is one I do not agree with...health reasons aside, coming off at some point is a necessity. I preach on here all the time about consistency, creating a new set-point and fighting against homeostasis. That said, there's a lot to be said about coming off and letting your body refresh...I'm not implying that you have to stay off for months on end and I'm not saying the "Time On = Time Off" is the best way to go to get the most gains...I'm simply saying that a "refreshing period" will do wonders for you body.

You're right, a lot of pro's stay on much longer than the average guy but a lot of pro's do come off at some point even if only for a little while. And this number of pro's that do this is not a small one.

in regards to my comment about health, yes of course i want long life and health. however that takes a back seat to bodybuilding. luckily, you dont have to do huge damage to your health to bodybuild. sure steroids and other durgs have risks, but they are over exaggerated.

on the issue of staying on year round, i disagree. i havent taken a day off since i started, and to be honest my best gains have been in the last two months...  without increasing any drug intake.. i dont see any benefit to taking time off.

[tbombz]

didn't dr poplov or someone post a study that showed the maximum saturation of a dose of test ? somewhere around 2g or so 

antone got the name of that study ? i couldn't find it when it was first posted.

candy do you remember ? it was you that linked his post here.

i believe  he was using androgen receptor content of mice muscle and applying that to humans... 

ill give an example of what I THINK he did...

somehtinglike...     mice have 100 androgen receptors per kilo... human and mice have the same AR density.. so humans have 100 androgen receptor per kilo... so a 100kilo man should have 10 thousand andorgen receptor in whole body...  and it takes 1mg of adrogen to saturate 200 androgen receptor... so divide 10 thousand by 200 and you see that it takes  50mg's to saturate a 100 kilo humans androgen receptors...


all those numbers are completely made up... but i believe he had the real numbers and did the math  the same way i did above... and he came up with a 3.5grams per week saturation point..

[Arnold jr]

on the issue of staying on year round, i disagree. i havent taken a day off since i started, and to be honest my best gains have been in the last two months...  without increasing any drug intake.. i dont see any benefit to taking time off.

If you've never taken some time off to let your body rest, how can you know that a little rest won't do you any good?

I know one of your arguments behind this is that Pro's stay on but as I said, that's not entirely true. Yes, they stay on a lot and a lot more than the average guy but many of them come off at times for the exact reason I'm talking about.

[bigdarksnake]

Arnold what do you recommend for time on vs. off? Any guidelines or tips?

[Arnold jr]

Arnold what do you recommend for time on vs. off? Any guidelines or tips?

It very much depends on the person and what the goals are at hand. For someone who is looking to go all out, make a run at the national level, the old "Time On = Time Off" plan is typically not the best way to go.

As for the back and forth I've been having with tbombz in this thread, my overall point is not to say there is a certain amount of time someone should take off but rather that some time off is in fact beneficial to the bodybuilder...again, to define specifics on this could and in most cases would depend on the bodybuilder.

Now if I had to give a specific answer but still keep it in the general realm, for those that stay on most of the year, a couple months off per year would be a wise way to go.

I had a thread on here a year ago or so that I ended up turning into an article...it goes into some of this...you can read it here:

http://www.probodybuilding.com/articles/probodybuilding-editorials/the-truth.php

[Luolamies]

Any suggestions on what extra meds are needed for prolonged periods? Which blood pressure meds and so on? Thanks for all the help guys!

Enalapril Maleate, brand name LINATIL is propably the safest and cheapest blood pressure medication, very low side effects and i remember that Dan Duchaine wrote about it years ago that it has "added bodybuilding value" not sure though what they are. I'm guessing it has something to do with the relaxation of blood vessels.

As far as cholesterol goes, i've just "allways" used Nolvadex (Tamoxifen citrate) as an anti-e and my cholesterol has allways been great. Also taking a good dose of fish oil EVERY DAY really helps in the long run.

[bigdarksnake]

Thanks to all for the tips.

[need2bhuge]

So you are saying that there is a test saturation point of 3500mg/wk.  I personally know of one pro top 10 in the O who runs 5g a wk of test (i dont knwo the rest of his stack but i know there is more).  Lets say i know where he gets it. 

Now, would using stronger AAS in comperable doses be the better way to go?  Say 150mg Tren EOD in place of say 750mg test a week (lower the test dose, include the tren). 

Arnold.  You are saying that blasting has its place but so does cruising or coming off.  What about blasting and bridging (to create a new set point and maintain the newly acquired weight).  If you were to put together an optimal bulker for someone looking to just blow up but with AAS experience and cycles under their belt what would it look like. 

I was thinking along the lines of
8 weeks clean to refresh (but throw in some slin towards the middle, bulk up, then starve back (overtrain/undereat/cardio) a little to prime for the cycle and insure a little initial rebound) and jump on
Sust 1g 2x/wk (base, possibly slightly increased in place of tren)
Tren E 400mg 2x/wk (possibly not needed or too harsh?)
Anavar 50mg ED (overall strength and tendon/lig health and strength)
Winny 150mg EOD (synergistic effect w test)

Maybe 30 days with HIIT cardio to keep metabolism moving and endurance up and calories through the roof 600g protien/day

Then cruise on say 500mg test/wk for 4 weeks  then blast again with something comperable to first one.  Possibly a suspension/winny/slin preworkout mix (winny/slin enhance test strength by lowering SHBG) with a test E base and some deca for joints and ligs. 

Then come off......

[tbombz]

So you are saying that there is a test saturation point of 3500mg/wk.  I personally know of one pro top 10 in the O who runs 5g a wk of test (i dont knwo the rest of his stack but i know there is more).  Lets say i know where he gets it. 

Now, would using stronger AAS in comperable doses be the better way to go?  Say 150mg Tren EOD in place of say 750mg test a week (lower the test dose, include the tren). 

Arnold.  You are saying that blasting has its place but so does cruising or coming off.  What about blasting and bridging (to create a new set point and maintain the newly acquired weight).  If you were to put together an optimal bulker for someone looking to just blow up but with AAS experience and cycles under their belt what would it look like. 

I was thinking along the lines of
8 weeks clean to refresh (but throw in some slin towards the middle, bulk up, then starve back (overtrain/undereat/cardio) a little to prime for the cycle and insure a little initial rebound) and jump on
Sust 1g 2x/wk (base, possibly slightly increased in place of tren)
Tren E 400mg 2x/wk (possibly not needed or too harsh?)
Anavar 50mg ED (overall strength and tendon/lig health and strength)
Winny 150mg EOD (synergistic effect w test)

Maybe 30 days with HIIT cardio to keep metabolism moving and endurance up and calories through the roof 600g protien/day

Then cruise on say 500mg test/wk for 4 weeks  then blast again with something comperable to first one.  Possibly a suspension/winny/slin preworkout mix (winny/slin enhance test strength by lowering SHBG) with a test E base and some deca for joints and ligs. 

Then come off......

lol


just do a gram of test and a gram of tren every week, use slin if you want t, and add gh if you can affford it. drop the HIT cardio, if you are getting fat you can either A) cut back on food, or B) throw in a small doseage of t3....   protein at 600g a day is a complete waste of money and appetite, try 300grams per day and increase you carbs drastically. forget the idea of coming off to "refresh", and forget the idea of "priming"...  and stop making this too complicated... because for one the stuff your complicatingis kind of based on misleading ideas, and for two theres no reason to comlicate this, its not rocket science.

[StackedDec]

For me the blast works really well, I had some bad sides a few times with longer runs, mostly water, acne, some inj. problems with scar tissue, 1 bad local infection.  With shorter cycles I feel like I can run more test and whatever else and not have as bad of sides, which kick in for me at about 30 days, so 6 weeks is long enough for me, I still gain much strength/some mass and good definition.  I really can't get much harder in my highly trained areas, my tri's have truly been like iron for like 5 years, and I've done like 6 cycles since then.

I also like to stay near my natural weight because being 30+lbs over it makes my back hurt, shit I'm 20 some lbs over it right now and my back hurts every now and then, like the last week.

100mg/prop/day
80mg/tren ace eod
50-100mg drol/day

6 weeks of that would be an ideal run for me, maybe only 4-5 weeks of tren depending on the sides

The gains could still be good and very sustainable, with hopefully much less as far as sides even compared to a 12 week test cycle.

[local hero]

the short blasts were big in the uk when i was on my way up, mostly because of paul borreson and others
at the time....

the whole point was to break your set point, as the theory and also from my personal experience is, once youve been to a certain size you can get there again !!

from what i can remember youd totaly overload for 3 to 4 weeks, have a few weeks off, then start on a normal long range cycle, youd only do 1 or at the most 2 of these types of cycles a year.