serious question

[grab an umbrella]

Its obvious most, if not all politicians have no regard for the average person.  Bush spent like a drunk sailor, Obama is doing the same.  States are no different fiscally.  What can be done about this?  It seems as if almost every candidate is disconnected with the average Americans reality.  How do we fix this?

[Hugo Chavez]

I would like to know the same thing, it seems everytime someone asks this question, there is no serious attempt to answer it or it's just acknowledged but no ideas on what to do given.

[grab an umbrella]

Most elections boils down to who is going to give me more vs who is going to fuck me less.  Its a sad state of affairs.  Unfortunately I've become very disenchanted with the whole thing lately.

[MB_722]

listen to this video starting @ 5:45

 

[MB_722]

then listen to this one starting @ 4:53

[grab an umbrella]

I'm on the phone now, can you give me a super quick synopsis?

[240 is Back]

print more money


what's the worse that can happen?










Hi, Weimar Republic.

[MB_722]

I'm on the phone now, can you give me a super quick synopsis?

says we should be more concerned and involved with local elections than the Presidential elections ... give the states their power back . .. I'm lazy.

[Hugo Chavez]

listen to this video starting @ 5:45

 

Well that's common sense and I think most would agree that's a must for any real change.  But the kabbalahist didn't give any real advice on how to do it.  The problem is actually big enough that it needs more than simple logic.  It's easy to say we all have to vote for the third party candidates at the state level.  It becomes another thing during the election when, as a small example, you have a dem labled pro-abortion/anti-gun, a republican labeled the opposite and a third party candidate with the label, "can't win"  Then the people, no matter how pissed they are with both parties vote an issue.  They feel they can't take the chance on the third party guy because the issue, whatever it is, is one they don't want to take a chance on handing to the other guy.  This is one example, there are many issues to address to make what the kabbalahist says a reality.  It's complex and unless the complexity is addressed with workable ideas it's just talk.  I would like real ideas from people.  I mean it can't be impossible.

Also, Ron Paul in the whitehouse would be better than Bush or Obama.  Call him chief whore if you want but no freaking way he would not be better than what we've had.

[grab an umbrella]

So Hugo in your opinion, what's stopping some like RP from getting elected?

[Hugo Chavez]

So Hugo in your opinion, what's stopping some like RP from getting elected?

Why couldn't he win the nomination?  Well one big hit would be the fact that almost all right leaning media and commentators, especially the neoconservative brand, railed against him all through the Bush years.  Glenn Beck labeled him nuts and an extremist.  Fox always mocked the guy because of the anti-war stance and wanting to get rid of the fed etc.  I mean so that's going to be a lot of republicans that watched their favorite commentators attack him.  The next factor is of course that a good portion of people that even liked him and what he said, said they wouldn't vote for him because he couldn't win.  I think that was said here too.  So some supporters of Paul, didn't even vote for him.  The same thing will be there for the next guy like Ron Paul.  Plus another problem is there are not a lot of guys like Ron Paul.  Even when you find some other guy that aligns with someone like paul, it seems like they have some crazy bagage.  Ron Pauls are rare unfortunately, or so it seems.  The Can't Win talk is what's going to kill most third party candidates.  They'll vote an issue even if pissed at the party.  3333 wants to change is name to "glock the vote"  That's one of many issues used to get people to the polls on a single issue.  The wedge issue is probably the biggest thing that kills third party candidates.  It's going to ensure that people judge if the third party guy can win.  He may also be on the side of their issue, but if they feel he "can't win" they're not going to take that chance and they'll vote the issue with the guy they think can win and that's going to most likely be a major party candidate.

Oh, plus money...  I'm betting that most republicans and dems can easily outspend the third party candidate.  So money is another issue to address.  "BIGTIME"  especially the more important the race.

[Hugo Chavez]

"Although the GOP crowd clapped steadily for Giuliani, it wasn’t all that enthusiastic. Many of the local politicians have signed on with Mitt Romney. And numerous Republicans told me they like Ron Paul, "but he can’t win."
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/seiler3.html

[Skip8282]

I would like to know the same thing, it seems everytime someone asks this question, there is no serious attempt to answer it or it's just acknowledged but no ideas on what to do given.

That's because, IMO, there is no quick, easy, single answer.

Just look at the process from the start.  First, you have to find a candidate that has pretty much a squeaky clean record.  And who hasn't misspoke, done something wrong, made a serious mistake, etc.?  Hell, in this day and age, we've got the media putting up stories about swatting a fly.  WTF? 

So, even the smallest of errors become magnified to absurdity with a media hungry for the next big story.

IMO, that's the single biggest obstacle to getting really good candidates.

I guess Hugo, as a starting point, I would say that we need to reform the privacy rights of candidates.  I don't think elementary grades, high school grades, and probably not even college grades for a presidential candidate are really germane to making an informed voting decision.  Nor do I think that a candidates medical history is anybody's business.  You have to be at least 35, so by then, a candidate should have established himself/herself enough, publicly, for people to make an informed decision about their qualifications.  And if they haven't established themselves, then I think that's a fair factor in deciding a persons vote.

This, IMO, is where we should start.

[Hedgehog]

That's because, IMO, there is no quick, easy, single answer.

Just look at the process from the start.  First, you have to find a candidate that has pretty much a squeaky clean record.  And who hasn't misspoke, done something wrong, made a serious mistake, etc.?  Hell, in this day and age, we've got the media putting up stories about swatting a fly.  WTF? 

So, even the smallest of errors become magnified to absurdity with a media hungry for the next big story.

IMO, that's the single biggest obstacle to getting really good candidates.

I guess Hugo, as a starting point, I would say that we need to reform the privacy rights of candidates.  I don't think elementary grades, high school grades, and probably not even college grades for a presidential candidate are really germane to making an informed voting decision.  Nor do I think that a candidates medical history is anybody's business.  You have to be at least 35, so by then, a candidate should have established himself/herself enough, publicly, for people to make an informed decision about their qualifications.  And if they haven't established themselves, then I think that's a fair factor in deciding a persons vote.

This, IMO, is where we should start.

Good post.

To add to this, I think Robert Putnam definitely is right with his observations on social capital.

That in order to have a sound democracy, a society needs to have a foundation of "social capital".

Which comes from interactions in different types of community social and fraternal organizations eg bowling teams, baseball teams, dancing clubs, choirs.

Instead, these days you have lobbyists running the show.

These lobbyists are OWNED by different corporations, eg the oil industry or the car health insurance corporation.

They spend tremendous amount of money to get people out protesting for their cause.

"Astro-turfing" it's called.

An artificial form of grass roots movement.

Created from the top.

[Soul Crusher]

1.  Everyone is better off if they start their own business and create their own economy.  It sucks in the beginning, but is a path to more freedom, liberty, and control over your money and life.

2.  Call your reps.  They pay attention when enough people call.  Amnesty was stopped this way two years ago.

3.  Dont blindly support politicians.  Call up when they do good, get on their ass when they do bad.  They work for us and are our employees, not our masters.

4.  Educate yourself on what is going on.   The lack of basic economic, civic, historical, and general knowledge is astounding. 

5.  Do business with local people when possible.  you may pay a little more, but will keep money in your community. 

6.  Defund the big banks and the govt.  Take your money out of the too big too fail and look for legal ways to reduce your taxes.  We need to starve the beasts that harm us.

 

[Hedgehog]

5.  Do business with local people when possible.  you may pay a little more, but will keep money in your community. 

6.  Defund the big banks and the govt.  Take your money out of the too big too fail and look for legal ways to reduce your taxes.  We need to starve the beasts that harm us.
 
This is so true.

Support your local producers/stores.

Instead of Walmart and Kmart, opt for the little local supermarkets, or local suppliers if possible.

If you got some local bakery, or whatever - support them.

It's a way to keep building your local community.


And the local alternative can actually be more effective than the big scale global one.

In fact, the winner of this years Nobel Prize in Economy has shown how local farmers in California came together and found an alternative for a water supply.

http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/2009-10-15-voa6.cfm

[Soul Crusher]

5.  Do business with local people when possible.  you may pay a little more, but will keep money in your community. 

6.  Defund the big banks and the govt.  Take your money out of the too big too fail and look for legal ways to reduce your taxes.  We need to starve the beasts that harm us.
 
This is so true.

Support your local producers/stores.

Instead of Walmart and Kmart, opt for the little local supermarkets, or local suppliers if possible.

If you got some local bakery, or whatever - support them.

It's a way to keep building your local community.


And the local alternative can actually be more effective than the big scale global one.

In fact, the winner of this years Nobel Prize in Economy has shown how local farmers in California came together and found an alternative for a water supply.

http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/2009-10-15-voa6.cfm

Damn right, eveyone needs to earn a living and its better to pay a little more knowing your money is going into the shopkeepers pocket than a multinational corp.

Trust me, the few extra dollars to the shop keeper or local guy is not making him rich, but helping him pay his bills.

[OzmO]

Its obvious most, if not all politicians have no regard for the average person.  Bush spent like a drunk sailor, Obama is doing the same.  States are no different fiscally.  What can be done about this?  It seems as if almost every candidate is disconnected with the average Americans reality.  How do we fix this?

I think a powerful 3rd party might help along with many of the things 333333 said.

[OzmO]

1.  Everyone is better off if they start their own business and create their own economy.  It sucks in the beginning, but is a path to more freedom, liberty, and control over your money and life.

2.  Call your reps.  They pay attention when enough people call.  Amnesty was stopped this way two years ago.

3.  Dont blindly support politicians.  Call up when they do good, get on their ass when they do bad.  They work for us and are our employees, not our masters.

4.  Educate yourself on what is going on.   The lack of basic economic, civic, historical, and general knowledge is astounding.  

5.  Do business with local people when possible.  you may pay a little more, but will keep money in your community.  

6.  Defund the big banks and the govt.  Take your money out of the too big too fail and look for legal ways to reduce your taxes.  We need to starve the beasts that harm us.

 

I try to do exactly that.  I kills me every time i see a family business go under.  99% of the time their products/services are superior to these mega chains.  A couple of years there was this family owned Coffee/Bagel shop by where i work.  Coffee was great, Begals were made in house, and the owners grew there own tomatoes.  A starbucks opened up and a year later they went out of business.  Starbucks is mule piss.  

[Soul Crusher]

I think a powerful 3rd party might help along with many of the things 333333 said.

The problem with a 3rd party is that the two parties still control the overwhelming infrastructure of the govt. and have no real chance of getting stuff through.   Its a great idea and i agree needs to be pursued, but we need to be realistic of what it will likely accomplish.

To me, decoupling from the major corps, the govt, etc is probably the best thing to do and defund these entities that are screwing us over. 

[OzmO]

The problem with a 3rd party is that the two parties still control the overwhelming infrastructure of the govt. and have no real chance of getting stuff through.   Its a great idea and i agree needs to be pursued, but we need to be realistic of what it will likely accomplish.

To me, decoupling from the major corps, the govt, etc is probably the best thing to do and defund these entities that are screwing us over. 

How is a decoupling ever going to happen?

I was talking with my father the other day and he said that something like 49% of Americans see themselves as independents.  I don't know how accurate that is, but i gotta think that there is a yearning in our country for a change from this insanity.  I may not always agree with you on things 333333, but you are right IMO, Washington is a town of crooks.

[Soul Crusher]

How is a decoupling ever going to happen?

I was talking with my father the other day and he said that something like 49% of Americans see themselves as independents.  I don't know how accurate that is, but i gotta think that there is a yearning in our country for a change from this insanity.  I may not always agree with you on things 333333, but you are right IMO, Washington is a town of crooks.

What I mean is that try to shop locally and to independent businesses.  Get out of debt.  Become as self sufficient as possible and meet people in your community to do business with. 

Legally reduce your taxes as much as possible.  Do not vote for politicians or people who support big govt and more corp and govt welfare etc. 

Oppose all tax hikes and fees.  Stuff like that. 

[Slapper]

I think one of the main things is getting rid of the income tax. Secondly I'd transfer a lot more power to the state governments, and subsequently to the county. Once you move the power brokers closer to The People there's a better chance IMO that they won't try to corrupt the system again.

But I'm pretty sure Big Business would find a loophole somewhere any way... so I don't think there's a solution per se.

Corruption is what brought Rome down and corruption is what will bring the USA down.

[OzmO]

What I mean is that try to shop locally and to independent businesses.  Get out of debt.  Become as self sufficient as possible and meet people in your community to do business with. 

Legally reduce your taxes as much as possible.  Do not vote for politicians or people who support big govt and more corp and govt welfare etc. 

Oppose all tax hikes and fees.  Stuff like that. 

That's all good 3333, but its never gonna happen on a scale that would influence change.  This Coffee shop thing is a great example.  The masses are influenced to strongly by corporate advertising.

[Slapper]

That's all good 3333, but its never gonna happen on a scale that would influence change.  This Coffee shop thing is a great example.  The masses are influenced to strongly by corporate advertising.

It's not cool to talk about "the masses" or "The People".

Sounds too communist.