Author Topic: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice  (Read 1929 times)

Skip8282

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Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« on: November 03, 2009, 02:23:52 PM »
My Steelers had a really embarassing incident with this not long ago... :P


________________________ _________
Frank Gore runs right up the gut of the Indianapolis defense. Defensive back Jerraud Powers delivers a big body-blow, but Gore just bounces off and keeps on running, one of two broken tackles on the way to a 64-yard San Francisco touchdown.

Baltimore's Ray Rice catches a screen pass and is surrounded by four Cincinnati would-be tacklers - emphasis on "would-be." Rice's right hand touches the ground, but he keeps running right through the Bengals for a 48-yard score.

With the game on the line, Brandon Marshall outmaneuvers Ken Hamlin, Terence Newman and a few other Cowboys for a winning Denver touchdown in Dallas.

What's the deal? Don't these NFLers practice tackling anymore?

Uh, no. Not really. Go watch a professional football practice. You'll see passers passing, receivers receiving, punters punting and blockers blocking. Yet tackling, one of the game's essential skills and the punctuation mark to nearly every play, usually gets a miss.

"We teach tackling fundamentals," Cowboys coach Wade Phillips said. "But there's no reason to tackle our own guys."

Instead, defensive players are taught not to tackle. They get right up to the ball carrier and hit the brakes, just missing him or giving him a little bump.

Make full contact, and coaches and teammates get upset. Pittsburgh's Hines Ward threw a fit last year when he felt safety Anthony Smith hit receiver Willie Reid during a drill. The Steelers have a tackling dummy named Big Bertha, but that's about as physical as it gets on most training camp days.

Sure, that keeps everybody healthy, but some Sundays can look pretty ragged. Many players get a chance to tackle at full speed only during exhibition games. It shows once the regular season begins.

"It shows a whole bunch," Redskins safeties coach Steve Jackson said. "That's one of the fundamental skills. A lot of people don't tackle now because of the salary cap. You lose a guy because of a tackling drill, you're the dumbest guy on the planet."

Phillips says getting in position but not hitting is actually harder than tackling - and that it forces his Cowboys players to emphasize good technique. Jackson, after watching a poor Redskins tackling performance earlier this season, isn't fond of that theory.

"You train yourself to 'just miss,'" Jackson said. "And now (in a game) you have untrain yourself in a manner of split seconds."

There are some exceptions. Many teams have live tackling during specific short-yardage drills during camp, and, of course, there's usually at least one preseason scrimmage that gives the defenders a chance or two to bring someone down for real. Those moments, however, represent a small percentage of practice for most teams.

"Even if we are in full pads, you're not going to tackle a guy, you're going to 'thud him up,'" Miami defensive end Jason Taylor said. "You can never simulate what it's going to be like in a game because there's nothing else on the planet like an NFL football game. It's quick, fast, it's in a hurry, it's violent, and you can't simulate that during the week or else you'll have no one to play on Sunday."

Some coaches are more aggressive than others. Jets coach Rex Ryan had a handful of drills with live tackling this year, particularly late in camp. Josh McDaniels, unlike predecessor Mike Shanahan, also had a physical, tackle-heavy camp in Denver.

"If they're poor tacklers, then you end up with a lot of yards once the ball gets into the second level of the defense," McDaniels said. "You can eliminate a lot of big plays if you've got good tacklers."

It's noteworthy that Ryan and McDaniels are both first-year coaches and have yet to have a team decimated by injuries. San Diego coach Norv Turner used to have live tackling every day on running plays during his first camps as a young coach with the Redskins in the 1990s, but the line got so long in the trainers' room that he lightened up considerably as the years progressed.

Arizona defensive coordinator Bill Davis, an NFL assistant for nearly two decades, was asked why the Cardinals don't have regular live tackling in practice.

"You can't," Davis replied. "That would actually work against you, because the body can only take so many hits and the season's so long."

It hasn't always been this way. Training camp used to be about getting in shape and hitting hard. It was survival of the fittest.

"We had 130 guys, and you could practice for six weeks," Redskins coach Jim Zorn said, who spent much of his playing career with the Seattle Seahawks. "There were a lot of those kinds of scrimmages, we'd go live. But nowadays with 80 players and really the idea that you want to keep everybody as healthy as you can, you have to limit that."

Then again, as Miami's Taylor pointed out, these aren't the old days.

"You just showed up for training camp, you smoked cigarettes at halftime, a lot of things were different back then," Taylor joked. "So, we don't do all that now. We don't tackle, but we don't smoke at halftime either."

Humor aside, there's no ready-made solution for the tackling woes. Practice it, and someone could get hurt. Don't practice it, and Sundays can be painful for a different reason. Defenders go for the big hit, but don't wrap up. They try to arm-tackle a big running back around the chest instead of the legs. They take bad angles - as if that "just miss" attitude from training camp was still in play.

Meanwhile, scoring is up in the offense-minded NFL, which to this day doesn't even count tackles as an official statistic. Offense remains the side of the ball that sells. Where would the wildcat be, for example, if the Dolphins were pounding their running backs into the turf on practice days?

That's not even a consideration for coach Tony Sparano, who has to answer to fans, an owner (Stephen Ross) and another demanding front office boss.

"You wouldn't feel too good about it if on Wednesday you took Ronnie Brown down in practice and he was out of the game," Sparano said. "I would have to do a lot of explaining to Mr. Ross and Bill Parcells at that point. I wouldn't want that conversation."

http://www.verizon.net/newsroom/portals/newsroom.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=newsroom_portal_page__article&_article=2417045&_count=1

body88

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2009, 05:12:52 PM »
It's no secret that the NFL has been moving towards offence for the last decade.  The new pass interference rules, the emphasis on protecting the QB (which is understandable).  In 2 years, 40+ points games will be the norm.  Scoring is what drives excitement.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2009, 05:48:59 PM »
Scoring is what drives excitement.
trying to score is what drives excitement. It doesn't have to be a high scoring game to have you on the edge of your seat and announce it as a "great fucking game" when it's over.

body88

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2009, 06:52:38 PM »
trying to score is what drives excitement. It doesn't have to be a high scoring game to have you on the edge of your seat and announce it as a "great fucking game" when it's over.

Not to the casual NFL fan, imo.  People want to see scoring and lots of it.  Look at the recent changes to the rules over the last ten years.  DB's can't bump receivers over 5 yards, ticky-tacky pass interference calls are the norm...Can't destroy wr's who go over the middle. Hit zones are much smaller.  Not allowing more than three defenders to form a wall/wedge by locking arms during kick returns - etc.

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2009, 07:06:07 PM »
"It shows a whole bunch," Redskins safeties coach Steve Jackson said. "That's one of the fundamental skills. A lot of people don't tackle now because of the salary cap. You lose a guy because of a tackling drill, you're the dumbest guy on the planet."

That about says it all right there. Training camp is all about physicality. But when the regular season starts, practice is usually walk throughs and not going full speed. Which to me, is smart. The millions of dollars that are tied up in these players is astounding.

But there are some really good tacklers in the NFL. I'm talking fundamentally sound, text book tacklers. Wrapping up, no arm tackling above the waist and driving throught the base of the ball carrier. Ray Lewis, London Fletcher, Keith Brooking. Typically the same guys that rack up huge tackle numbers every year. Ray Lewis piled up over 200 tackles in his second year in the league in 1997.

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2009, 07:10:30 PM »
Not to the casual NFL fan, imo.  People want to see scoring and lots of it.  Look at the recent changes to the rules over the last ten years.  DB's can't bump receivers over 5 yards, ticky-tacky pass interference calls are the norm...Can't destroy wr's who go over the middle. Hit zones are much smaller.  Not allowing more than three defenders to form a wall/wedge by locking arms during kick returns - etc.

Definitely the last one. There has been a shit load more of punt and kickoff returns for TD's in recent years.

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2009, 08:44:39 AM »
It's no secret that the NFL has been moving towards offence for the last decade.  The new pass interference rules, the emphasis on protecting the QB (which is understandable).  In 2 years, 40+ points games will be the norm.  Scoring is what drives excitement.

the cornerback bump rules...

Steve young said if these rules have been in during the 90s he would have 50 touchdowns a season...and i think he is telling the truth

Skip8282

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2009, 07:00:59 PM »
"It shows a whole bunch," Redskins safeties coach Steve Jackson said. "That's one of the fundamental skills. A lot of people don't tackle now because of the salary cap. You lose a guy because of a tackling drill, you're the dumbest guy on the planet."

That about says it all right there. Training camp is all about physicality. But when the regular season starts, practice is usually walk throughs and not going full speed. Which to me, is smart. The millions of dollars that are tied up in these players is astounding.

But there are some really good tacklers in the NFL. I'm talking fundamentally sound, text book tacklers. Wrapping up, no arm tackling above the waist and driving throught the base of the ball carrier. Ray Lewis, London Fletcher, Keith Brooking. Typically the same guys that rack up huge tackle numbers every year. Ray Lewis piled up over 200 tackles in his second year in the league in 1997.


I think the money issue is a very valid point, but you can at least get some basics for tackling in practice without hurting teamates.  Reed didn't even try and get Harvin's legs.  He gave him a little girl push.  Oh the shame....  :-\




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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2009, 07:52:52 AM »

I think the money issue is a very valid point, but you can at least get some basics for tackling in practice without hurting teamates.  Reed didn't even try and get Harvin's legs.  He gave him a little girl push.  Oh the shame....  :-\





I guess maybe you missed his hit that jarred the ball loose on Knowshown Moreno last Sunday? Ed Reed is actually a pretty good form tackler. He's mainly a coverage safety but can lay the wood when he has to.

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2009, 07:58:43 AM »
I guess maybe you missed his hit that jarred the ball loose on Knowshown Moreno last Sunday? Ed Reed is actually a pretty good form tackler. He's mainly a coverage safety but can lay the wood when he has to.

no doubt about that....he is underrated imho...i know he gets love from people who know football and people in the leauge...but he dosent get the rec from general public like troy p...This dude was defensive mvp of the leauge...as a safety..he is a beast...

body88

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2009, 08:03:13 AM »
I guess maybe you missed his hit that jarred the ball loose on Knowshown Moreno last Sunday? Ed Reed is actually a pretty good form tackler. He's mainly a coverage safety but can lay the wood when he has to.

Agreed, Reed is the best safety in the NFL.  NE has a kid who was his protege in Miami, his name is Brandon Meriweather.  He'll never be as good as Reed (not many will), but he's one of the league's premiere young safety's.  He's having a pro bowl year.

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2009, 08:04:22 AM »
Agreed, Reed is the best safety in the NFL.  NE has a kid who was his protege in Miami, his name is Brandon Meriweather.   He'll never be as good as Reed (not many will), but he's one of the league's premiere young safety's.  He's having a pro bowl year.

Yeah he is dope...That kid out of TENN is gonna be dope...Berry...the kid has hella range and will come up and tackle...

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2009, 09:09:55 AM »
no doubt about that....he is underrated imho...i know he gets love from people who know football and people in the leauge...but he dosent get the rec from general public like troy p...This dude was defensive mvp of the leauge...as a safety..he is a beast...

Of course, I'm biased in saying this but I think Ed Reed should have won his second defensive MVP award in 2008. Not taking anything away from James Harrison's season but I think Reed made more impact plays last year and was a HUGE reason the Ravens made it to the conference championship game last year.

10 int's over the last 9 games of the season, including playoffs? Along with 2 defensive touchdowns? Crazy.

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2009, 09:30:46 AM »
Of course, I'm biased in saying this but I think Ed Reed should have won his second defensive MVP award in 2008. Not taking anything away from James Harrison's season but I think Reed made more impact plays last year and was a HUGE reason the Ravens made it to the conference championship game last year.

10 int's over the last 9 games of the season, including playoffs? Along with 2 defensive touchdowns? Crazy.

I feel you...but harrison made so many big plays in the regular season as well as the playoffs..you could pass his side in the intermediate zones... Definatley couldn run his side and you couldnt block him off the edge...he was a pan possessed last year...Remember the superbowl...pick in the endzone and then to run it back for the td...dude thats a 14 point swing...10 at least...in one play...

body88

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2009, 09:32:13 AM »
Ed Reed is the best safety in the NFL and one of the best players of all time, period.

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2009, 09:42:54 AM »
Ed Reed is the best safety in the NFL and one of the best players of all time, period.

He might have something to say about that
5× Pro Bowl selection (2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008)
2× 1st Team AP All-Pro selection (2005, 2008)
1x 2nd Team AP All-Pro selection (2004)
2× Super Bowl champion (XL, XLIII) “Joe Greene Great Performance Award” (2003


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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2009, 10:19:59 AM »
Agreed, Reed is the best safety in the NFL.  NE has a kid who was his protege in Miami, his name is Brandon Meriweather.  He'll never be as good as Reed (not many will), but he's one of the league's premiere young safety's.  He's having a pro bowl year.

It's impressive to see how far he's come this season. He looked a little lost at times during his rookie year.

body88

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2009, 01:02:20 PM »
It's impressive to see how far he's come this season. He looked a little lost at times during his rookie year.

Agreed.  They say the Patriots system is tough to pick up....but clearly over the last two years he's come on. He's been beastly.  He'll never be like Ed Reed, but he will be a pro bowl type player for sure.

regmac

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Re: Bad NFL tackling? It's because they don't practice
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2009, 08:27:39 PM »
I thought the horse collar (No.31) was cool.  It saved the Pats a Super Bowl win!!!!
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