Unemployment Rate 10.2%, Highest Since April 1983

[trans4mer]

333386,

My thing is that when we had tax cuts ($500.00 tax rebates...did you get one?) during the W. and Cheney's years, employment went to 7%. 
Bill Clinton (1993-2001) 7% to 4%
G.W. Bush (2001-2009) 4% to 7%
B. Obama (2009-) 7% to

Did it really help? have we really learned? Do you realize that congress has not changed any laws regarding the financial/banking industry except credit card fees? Do you remember how the republican lead congress changed the bankruptcy laws just before the meltdown? Look back and see what happened. I was once told that everything that glitter is not gold.

We, as Americans, have to really decide what we want to do. Big companies need cheap labor so they go overseas to get cheap labor. Then we buy those things and say don't tax them because it going to hurt the our economy? and no I don't believe we should tax small businesses. By the way, what is your definition of a small business? It's meaning is different for different people would you agree? How do you suppose we pay for our soldiers and basic services? I'm open to hearing your opinion...

gotta go the gym now to hit the weights but I look forward to hearing what you think.

best of luck

[Soul Crusher]

333386,

My thing is that when we had tax cuts ($500.00 tax rebates...did you get one?) during the W. and Cheney's years, employment went to 7%. 
Bill Clinton (1993-2001) 7% to 4%
G.W. Bush (2001-2009) 4% to 7%
B. Obama (2009-) 7% to

Did it really help? have we really learned? Do you realize that congress has not changed any laws regarding the financial/banking industry except credit card fees? Do you remember how the republican lead congress changed the bankruptcy laws just before the meltdown? Look back and see what happened. I was once told that everything that glitter is not gold.

We, as Americans, have to really decide what we want to do. Big companies need cheap labor so they go overseas to get cheap labor. Then we buy those things and say don't tax them because it going to hurt the our economy? and no I don't believe we should tax small businesses. By the way, what is your definition of a small business? It's meaning is different for different people would you agree? How do you suppose we pay for our soldiers and basic services? I'm open to hearing your opinion...

gotta go the gym now to hit the weights but I look forward to hearing what you think.

best of luck

1.  I posted an article from the Huff Post showing that Rahm Emanuel is the one pusdhing for a weak bill on the regulatory stuff. 

2.  Go watch the "Warning" on pbs.org.   summers, Geithner, Rubin, Greenspan, Grahm, and Clinton ppushed for the repeal of glass steagal. 

3. Small business to me is businesses with under 100 employees. 

4.  I never argued for no taxes, but sane taxes that are not punitive and discourage investment and economic activity.  Why would an oil company try to drill more here when you have the congress and others screamining about taxing windfall profits, environmental lawsuits, etc. ? 

5.  I talk to no fewer than 15 businesses a day and will tell you that most small businesses are terrified of this admn and what they are doing.  They will not hire anyone in the current envirobment because of looming tax hikes and cap & trade. 

[MM2K]

My thing is that when we had tax cuts ($500.00 tax rebates...did you get one?) during the W. and Cheney's years, employment went to 7%. 

Bush inherited a recession at pretty much the very beginning of it. The stock market had been experiencing its worst bear market since the Great Depression the year before he took office. Economists were saying that we were in a recession before he took office. Unfortunately tax cuts cant prevent the necessary corrections that are needed when a recession hits. But as I understand it, the tax cuts in 2001 were not the kind that create incentives and change behavior. They were rebates that were basically like temporary tax cuts that dont work well. It was the 2003 tax cuts that helped get the economy going. This involved cuts in the capital gains tax and dividends tax. Tax cuts for the rich unfortunately were not big enough to make a difference.
 

Bill Clinton (1993-2001) 7% to 4%

Bill Clinton inherited the economy when it was at the very beginning of an expansion. And unfortunately it was the slowest recovery since WW2 if Im not mistaken. Interest rates on treasury bonds went UP after the taxes were hiked. In the long run though, the slashing of interest rates by the FED, the tech bubble, the taking of Congress by Republicans, the resulting capital gains tax cut, the 10 year paradise from History, Clinton's good policy on free trade helped to more than offset the negative effects of any tax hike. Particularly since taxes on the rich were still lower than they were in Reagan's first term.

[trans4mer]

MM2K/333386,

Let me be the first the say that I appreciate your feedback and your opinions regarding this topic. That being said, I'm concern that the unemployment rate that the DOL put out gives the misconception that Barack is the cause of this. Has the stimulus work so far? It depends on who you listen to. I'm on a wait and see pattern right now. I like to find out information for myself rather than get opinions from those who have other reasons to say its his fault that we are where we are. Interesting to know that while construction, manufacturing, and retail lost, health care sector continues to grow.

Looking at the data that we accept as the all be all and if we look back during Mr. Reagan's years, he also reached 10% and it remained that way for 10 months straight at one time. Were there any concerns like this during these years? I was in high school so I can't answer the question ;-) but I get the impression that they believed in him and he successfully brought it down to the 5%.

I just want balance...

In the words of FDR, “The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”. I think a speech as this would provide us with some hope: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/

Best of luck

[Soul Crusher]

MM2K/333386,

Let me be the first the say that I appreciate your feedback and your opinions regarding this topic. That being said, I'm concern that the unemployment rate that the DOL put out gives the misconception that Barack is the cause of this. Has the stimulus work so far? It depends on who you listen to. I'm on a wait and see pattern right now. I like to find out information for myself rather than get opinions from those who have other reasons to say its his fault that we are where we are. Interesting to know that while construction, manufacturing, and retail lost, health care sector continues to grow.

Looking at the data that we accept as the all be all and if we look back during Mr. Reagan's years, he also reached 10% and it remained that way for 10 months straight at one time. Were there any concerns like this during these years? I was in high school so I can't answer the question ;-) but I get the impression that they believed in him and he successfully brought it down to the 5%.

I just want balance...

In the words of FDR, “The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”. I think a speech as this would provide us with some hope: http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5057/

Best of luck

Looking at the data that we accept as the all be all and if we look back during Mr. Reagan's years, he also reached 10% and it remained that way for 10 months straight at one time. Were there any concerns like this during these years? I was in high school so I can't answer the question ;-) but I get the impression that they believed in him and he successfully brought it down to the 5%.

Reagan cut tax rates and Volker hiiked the interest rates to suck out the excess money from the system which led to massive growth.  We are doing the opposite. 

[MM2K]

MM2K/333386,

Let me be the first the say that I appreciate your feedback and your opinions regarding this topic. That being said, I'm concern that the unemployment rate that the DOL put out gives the misconception that Barack is the cause of this.

Well I think an intellectually honest person has to admit that if you blamed Bush for the crash and rising unemployment in his last year after unemployment had been in the 4%-5% range for most of his two terms, then you have to blame Barack Obama for the unemployment rate ACCELERATING in his first year. The market crashed under Obama almost as much as it did under Bush, and that was after it had been relatively calm for almost three months after the fall panic. Now, Im more optimistic than 33386 about the prospects of a recovery, but I truly do not think it is happening as quickly or as robustly as it should be. I think this Administration is doing everything to slow and impede the recovery. I know some of this is a part of a cycle, but he did inherit this thing pretty late in the recession cycle. I will admit I am more inclined to blame him for it because of the narcissistic contempt that he and his supporters have for his predessocor, something that has never happened in politics I dont think. You have to atleast admit that Obama is getting everything he deserves, even if he is not as much to blame for the unemployement rate as people are saying he is.
 
 
 

[MM2K]

Has the stimulus work so far? It depends on who you listen to. I'm on a wait and see pattern right now. I like to find out information for myself rather than get opinions from those who have other reasons to say its his fault that we are where we are. Interesting to know that while construction, manufacturing, and retail lost, health care sector continues to grow.

Looking at the data that we accept as the all be all and if we look back during Mr. Reagan's years, he also reached 10% and it remained that way for 10 months straight at one time. Were there any concerns like this during these years? I was in high school so I can't answer the question ;-) but I get the impression that they believed in him and he successfully brought it down to the 5%.

Well, as I said in another thread, it is admittedly impossible to prove 100% whether or not the stimulus is working, because we dont know how things would have worked had we not had it. But the unemployment rate is now much higher than Obama's economists said it would be both with and without the stimulus. We had to pay $700 billion that we could ill afford, and it was jammed down our throats without much deliberation and debate. I would say the burden of proof is on Barack Obama.
The healthcare sector continues to grow because it typically performs well in recessions, because it is more of a neccessity than say clothes or a new set of furniture that would replace an old but still well functioning piece of furniture.

[Soul Crusher]

Well I think an intellectually honest person has to admit that if you blamed Bush for the crash and rising unemployment in his last year after unemployment had been in the 4%-5% range for most of his two terms, then you have to blame Barack Obama for the unemployment rate ACCELERATING in his first year. The market crashed under Obama almost as much as it did under Bush, and that was after it had been relatively calm for almost three months after the fall panic. Now, Im more optimistic than 33386 about the prospects of a recovery, but I truly do not think it is happening as quickly or as robustly as it should be. I think this Administration is doing everything to slow and impede the recovery. I know some of this is a part of a cycle, but he did inherit this thing pretty late in the recession cycle. I will admit I am more inclined to blame him for it because of the narcissistic contempt that he and his supporters have for his predessocor, something that has never happened in politics I dont think. You have to atleast admit that Obama is getting everything he deserves, even if he is not as much to blame for the unemployement rate as people are saying he is.
 
 
 

The reason i asm pessimistic is as follows/;

1.  The consumer is tapped out on credit cards and mortgages under water.

2.  The Admn will be taxing us more, thereby hindering gorwth in the private sector and discouraging investment.

3.  A huge energy tax is looming.  

4.  Interest rates are going to go way higher while people are already tapped out due to the excessive borrowoing and spending.  

5.  Most of the jobs that were lost are not coming back.

6.  State govts are not cutting vback and still raising taxes.  

7.  Inflation is starting to hit in consumer goods like food, oil, and other day to day items.

8.  There are no new bubbles to blow up for the average guy to speculate on Clinton had dotcoms.  Bush had housing.  Whilke the dotcom bust was bad, it was not as bad as the housing disaster since housing left us with massive debt.

9.  The dollar is sinking.

10.  The stimulus bill, bailouts, and money to the big banks is killing small business lending.  I am on the front lines of this every day and will tell you that banks are simply not lending for anything because all capital and monies are tied up in the bailouts and other federal nonsense.  

11.  Housing is still going down and people are not apt to spend money when their homes are going down in value.


  

[MM2K]

Looking at the data that we accept as the all be all and if we look back during Mr. Reagan's years, he also reached 10% and it remained that way for 10 months straight at one time. Were there any concerns like this during these years? I was in high school so I can't answer the question ;-) but I get the impression that they believed in him and he successfully brought it down to the 5%.

As 33386 said, Regan and Volker had to significantly raise interest rates to kill inflation, which caused a nasty recession in the short run. BUt it paid dividends later on when we had a very strong dollar, and we experienced price stability for the next 20 years. I admit I was not near as old as you at the time, but from what I have read Regan's popularity did suffer from it, and as a result the Repulicans lost Congressional seats in 1982. This is one reason I think Reagan was the greatest president of the 20th century.

[Soul Crusher]

As 33386 said, Regan and Volker had to significantly raise interest rates to kill inflation, which caused a nasty recession in the short run. BUt it paid dividends later on when we had a very strong dollar, and we experienced price stability for the next 20 years. I admit I was not near as old as you at the time, but from what I have read Regan's popularity did suffer from it, and as a result the Repulicans lost Congressional seats in 1982. This is one reason I think Reagan was the greatest president of the 20th century.

If you look who surrounds Obama, its the same gang largely responsible for the mess we are in.  The fools on this board who blame Bush alone for this are just typical knee jerk libs who refuse to read or investigate why the collapse happened.  The pbs documentary "The Warning" laid it out very clearly why we had the collapse and hint hint, it was only Bush.  It was Geithner, Summers, Rubin, Greenspan, Phil Gramm, and Clinton. 

Just look at the topics the libs on this board post, Palin, Fox News, etc.  They are not only dumb, clueless, ignorant, uninformed, uneducated, illiterate, and childish, but they are making a concious choice to avoid any real discussion as to how we got here and where we are heading.  This is their level of debate - Palin's baby and Fox News.   

I have posted numerous articles about the details on the PelosiCare bill.  Have one of these idiots once refuted anything?  No! 

I have posted numerous articles about Goldman and how they own the WH, are behind Cap & Trade, and have any of these morons on this board refuted me?  No.

I have posted articles about how Paul Volker has beens hunned by Geithner, Summers, and Obama.  have any of these Obamabots even commented on that?  No.

I have posted articles about the corrupt deal the WH made with the Big Drug Companies to screw us and drive up costs, have these discussed this or been intellectually honest to admit what is going on?  No.     

I have posted articles about the unfunded liabilities of Medicair & SS amounting to $65 TRILLION DOLLARS and how both programs are broke.  Do they even want to have that discussion?  No.

They Can't
They Won't
They Don't     

[Mons Venus]

Americans can "thank" NeoCon Republicans for BLOWING UP our economy.

8 yrs of total control and look where we are as a Nation!?

Scuumbags should be hung by their balls!

[240 is Back]

well, the neocons certainly did get us into a slide.  Obama injerited an avalanche.  Did the stimulus make it worse?  It keps things afloat in the short-term, but once those banks start lending that money, like Bech said, we're looking at some serious inflation.

[Soul Crusher]

well, the neocons certainly did get us into a slide.  Obama injerited an avalanche.  Did the stimulus make it worse?  It keps things afloat in the short-term, but once those banks start lending that money, like Bech said, we're looking at some serious inflation.

GO WATCH "THE WARNING" ON PBS.ORG AND STOP BEING KNEE-PADDING LIB.   

[Mons Venus]

well, the neocons certainly did get us into a slide.  Obama injerited an avalanche.  Did the stimulus make it worse?  It keps things afloat in the short-term, but once those banks start lending that money, like Bech said, we're looking at some serious inflation.

Obama is in the unenviable position of trying to clean up AFTER 8 years of Bush incompetence.



 

[Soul Crusher]

Obama is in the unenviable position of trying to clean up AFTER 8 years of Bush incompetence.



 

Obama voted for Tarp.

Obama wanted to spend more not less than GWB in the budgets.

Obama sued banks as a lawyer to enforce and expand the CRA.

Obama has in his cabinet the same gang of thugs responsible for the financial meltdown - Summers, Geithner, Rubin, et al  GO WATCH "THE WARNING" YOU KNEE PADDING PSYCHO.

Obama's stimulus is making things far worse by his own definition.

 
 

[Mons Venus]

Bush On TARP: ‘Why Did I Sign On To This Proposal If I Don’t Understand What It Does?’



On September 24, 2008, former President George Bush addressed the nation to explain the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) that was being crafted by the administration, the Treasury Department, and Congress. “Under our proposal,” Bush explained, “the federal government would put up to $700 billion taxpayer dollars on the line to purchase troubled assets that are clogging the financial system.”

But former Bush speechwriter Matt Latimer wrote in an upcoming book (excerpted by GQ) that, even hours before he gave an address promoting the TARP, Bush fundamentally misunderstood what the program was all about.

[Soul Crusher]

Bush On TARP: ‘Why Did I Sign On To This Proposal If I Don’t Understand What It Does?’



On September 24, 2008, former President George Bush addressed the nation to explain the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) that was being crafted by the administration, the Treasury Department, and Congress. “Under our proposal,” Bush explained, “the federal government would put up to $700 billion taxpayer dollars on the line to purchase troubled assets that are clogging the financial system.”

But former Bush speechwriter Matt Latimer wrote in an upcoming book (excerpted by GQ) that, even hours before he gave an address promoting the TARP, Bush fundamentally misunderstood what the program was all about.

And your point is? 

Obama did not understand it and he flew in to support it and appointed its author as his Treasury Secretary. 

[Mons Venus]

$arah palin on Bush's stimulus program. A classic!  
 

[Benny B]

Who was president in April of 1983?
How did that person fare when running for reelection just one year later?

[Soul Crusher]

Who was president in April of 1983?
How did that person fare when running for reelection just one year later?

Benny - Reagan & Volker hiked rates up to sop up the excess liquidity and promote massive job growth. 

Obama by all reports is listening to Geithner and Summers, not Volker right now and Bernake has said he is keeping rates at zero for at least a year. 

 

[Mons Venus]

Bush On TARP: ‘Why Did I Sign On To This Proposal If I Don’t Understand What It Does?’



On September 24, 2008, former President George Bush addressed the nation to explain the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) that was being crafted by the administration, the Treasury Department, and Congress. “Under our proposal,” Bush explained, “the federal government would put up to $700 billion taxpayer dollars on the line to purchase troubled assets that are clogging the financial system.”

But former Bush speechwriter Matt Latimer wrote in an upcoming book (excerpted by GQ) that, even hours before he gave an address promoting the TARP, Bush fundamentally misunderstood what the program was all about.

Historians and I agree......Bush was the WORST ever! Duhhhhhhhh

Almost as DUMB as $arah. 

[Benny B]

Benny - Reagan & Volker hiked rates up to sop up the excess liquidity and promote massive job growth. 

Obama by all reports is listening to Geithner and Summers, not Volker right now and Bernake has said he is keeping rates at zero for at least a year. 

 

What? The "great" Ronald Wilson Reagan let unemployment get over 10%???
No way, I don't believe that. It must have been Kennedy or Carter in office in '83. Reagan would never allow that to happen to our great country.

[Soul Crusher]

What? The "great" Ronald Wilson Reagan let unemployment get over 10%???
No way, I don't believe that. It must have been Kennedy or Carter in office in '83. Reagan would never allow that to happen to our great country.

They made things terrible for one year knowing the excess would be weeded out in a year or so.  Right now, the Fed is still lending money at zero %. 

Thus, we are delaying the pain even further.  What is going to drive demand and growth in the next year when the taxpayert is already underwater and tapped?   

[Mons Venus]

They made things terrible for one year knowing the excess would be weeded out in a year or so.  Right now, the Fed is still lending money at zero %. 

Thus, we are delaying the pain even further.  What is going to drive demand and growth in the next year when the taxpayert is already underwater and tapped?   

^^^^^^ Bush created this mess!

[Soul Crusher]

What? The "great" Ronald Wilson Reagan let unemployment get over 10%???
No way, I don't believe that. It must have been Kennedy or Carter in office in '83. Reagan would never allow that to happen to our great country.

Benny: 

The GDP growth got to 8.3% after what Reagan did.  And it was in the private sector.  Granted he had the uber-lib Mondale to run against, but we are in a different situation right now. 

Obama will win or lose based on his opponent and how the economy is at the time.  If things turn around, he will get credit for it, if things are still in the toilet, he is donezo.