Irony Stalks Republicans

[Straw Man]

Government health care rescues protesters at anti-government health care rally.

Thousands of protesters came to Capitol Hill yesterday for Rep. Michele Bachmann’s (R-MN) protest against health care reform, capping months of fear-mongering about the dangers of so-called “socialized” medicine. However, the Washington Post’s Dana Milbank notes that at one point, one of the protesters had a heart attack. Luckily, federally-employed medical personnel were able to quickly attend to him — even though they were part of government-run health care, which is supposedly quite dangerous:

More ominously, a man standing just beyond the TV cameras apparently suffered a heart attack 20 minutes after event began. Medical personnel from the Capitol physician’s office — an entity that could, quite accurately, be labeled government-run health care — rushed over, attaching electrodes to his chest and giving him oxygen and an IV drip.

This turned into an unwanted visual for the speakers, as a D.C. ambulance and firetruck, lights flashing, pulled in just behind the lawmakers. A path was made through the media section, and the patient, attended to by about 10 government medical personnel, was being wheeled away on a stretcher just as House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) stepped to the microphone. “Join us in defeating Pelosi care!” he exhorted. A few members stole a glance at the stretcher.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/06/rally-heart-attack/
By the end of the day, “medics had administered government-run health care to at least five people in the crowd who were stricken as they denounced government-run health care.”

[Soul Crusher]

They are already paying taxes for that. 

EMS is not the same thing as manadating people buy private inaurance coverage from companies that the govt makes corrupt deals with.  If you cant see that, shame on you. 

[Straw Man]

They are already paying taxes for that. 

EMS is not the same thing as manadating people buy private inaurance coverage from companies that the govt makes corrupt deals with.  If you cant see that, shame on you. 

nonsense - have you ever known anyone who received a bill for ambulance (or had their insurance company refuse to pay for it)?

btw - sounds like you're advocating taxpayer funded healthcare

[Soul Crusher]

nonsense - have you ever known anyone who received a bill for ambulance (or had their insurance company refuse to pay for it)?

btw - sounds like you're advocating taxpayer funded healthcare

Certain functions, like ems, police, fire, people pay taxes for.  The same is not true for health insurance, although people have to pny up fr medicade and illegals, etc.  Its a societal choice. 

You want it, I dont.   

[Straw Man]

the cost of healthcare for those without insurance is passed on via higher premiums to those with insurance.

I posted that info a month or so ago but I can't find it now

[Soul Crusher]

the cost of healthcare for those without insurance is passed on via higher premiums to those with insurance.

I posted that info a month or so ago but I can't find it now

Post it again. 

Why would a private carrier be paying a claim for someone without insurance?  Is the claim that docs padd the bills of those with insurance to make up the costs? 

[Coach is Back!]

Serious question for the libs and dems on here who support this health care sham. For everything that Obama has lied about and for the programs that were started and backfired might I add, why do you still back him and his looney administration? Serious question.

[Kazan]

I didn't see where it said the Federal Government Ambulance Service and the Federal Government Paramedics. State/Local, thats is apparently what you don't seem to understand.

[BM OUT]

I didn't see where it said the Federal Government Ambulance Service and the Federal Government Paramedics. State/Local, thats is apparently what you don't seem to understand.

Because if it was a government run operation,everyone would have passed away plus three more would have gotten hurt by the ambulance hitting them.

[Straw Man]

Post it again.  

Why would a private carrier be paying a claim for someone without insurance?  Is the claim that docs padd the bills of those with insurance to make up the costs?  

While people without health insurance often delay or forgo care, in 2008, the uninsured received $116 billion worth of care from hospitals, doctors, and other providers. Those costs were covered in the following ways:

The uninsured paid for, on average, more than one-third (37 percent) of the total costs of the care they received out of their own pockets.

Third-party sources, such as government programs and charities, paid for another 26 percent of that care.

The remaining amount, approximately $42.7 billion in 2008, was unpaid and constituted uncompensated care.
To make up for this uncompensated care, the costs were shifted to insurers in the form of higher charges for health services.

These higher charges are then passed on to families and businesses as higher premiums. The impact of this hidden health tax on annual premiums for families and individuals in 2008 was as follows:

For family health care coverage, the hidden health tax was $1,017.
For health coverage provided to single individuals, the hidden health tax was $368.

http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/publications/reports/hidden-health-tax.html

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=294755.msg4198878#msg4198878

http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/publications/reports/hidden-health-tax.html

[tonymctones]

are you serious with this shit straw or just fuking about?

[Straw Man]

are you serious with this shit straw or just fuking about?

serious about what exactly?

This?


KEY FINDINGS

While people without health insurance often delay or forgo care, in 2008, the uninsured received $116 billion worth of care from hospitals, doctors, and other providers. Those costs were covered in the following ways:

•The uninsured paid for, on average, more than one-third (37 percent) of the total costs of the care they received out of their own pockets.

•Third-party sources, such as government programs and charities, paid for another 26 percent of that care.

•The remaining amount, approximately $42.7 billion in 2008, was unpaid and constituted uncompensated care.
To make up for this uncompensated care, the costs were shifted to insurers in the form of higher charges for health services. These higher charges are then passed on to families and businesses as higher premiums. The impact of this hidden health tax on annual premiums for families and individuals in 2008 was as follows:

•For family health care coverage, the hidden health tax was $1,017.
•For health coverage provided to single individuals, the hidden health tax was $368.

[Skip8282]

serious about what exactly?

This?


KEY FINDINGS

While people without health insurance often delay or forgo care, in 2008, the uninsured received $116 billion worth of care from hospitals, doctors, and other providers. Those costs were covered in the following ways:

•The uninsured paid for, on average, more than one-third (37 percent) of the total costs of the care they received out of their own pockets.

•Third-party sources, such as government programs and charities, paid for another 26 percent of that care.

•The remaining amount, approximately $42.7 billion in 2008, was unpaid and constituted uncompensated care.
To make up for this uncompensated care, the costs were shifted to insurers in the form of higher charges for health services. These higher charges are then passed on to families and businesses as higher premiums. The impact of this hidden health tax on annual premiums for families and individuals in 2008 was as follows:

•For family health care coverage, the hidden health tax was $1,017.
•For health coverage provided to single individuals, the hidden health tax was $368.

I think this is a key issue.  Where's the money going to come from under the new healthcare plan?  How are people who can't afford it now going to be able to get it in the future?  How will it become cheaper?  Taxing corporations?  Of course, corporations don't really pay taxes, their customers do.  So basically you and I will STILL be paying that 42.7 billion dollar shortfall.

I'm thinking we really need to help all these people not getting healthcare, getting denied healthcare, and the pre-existing condition shit.  But it is difficult figuring out a fair way to do it that's not going to break us financially.  Personally I'd rather see a lot less foreign aid.  Hell, we could cover that 42.7 billion 10 times over if we got rid of all this foreign aid, lol.

No easy answers I guess.

[tonymctones]

no the idiotic premise of this thread? 

weve been through your other point time and time again...

[Straw Man]

no the idiotic premise of this thread? 

weve been through your other point time and time again...

the premise of this thread is that irony stalks the repubs

that's what you're objecting to?

[Kazan]

the premise of this thread is that irony stalks the repubs

that's what you're objecting to?

It only Ironic if the ambulance service and medic work for the federal government, other wise it is run by state/local which according to the 10th amendemnt is up for the state to decide. These people are protesting the Fed taking over health care.

[Straw Man]

It only Ironic if the ambulance service and medic work for the federal government, other wise it is run by state/local which according to the 10th amendemnt is up for the state to decide. These people are protesting the Fed taking over health care.

the "Fed" isn't taking over health care

[Kazan]

the "Fed" isn't taking over health care

The Federal Government

[Straw Man]

The Federal Government

The Federal Government isn't taking over healthcare

[Soul Crusher]

The Federal Government isn't taking over healthcare

No, its only going to imprison you if you dont buy insurance from the private companies they claim are evil
and raping us.



   

[BM OUT]

The Federal Government isn't taking over healthcare

Really?Please explain how private health insureres will be able to compete with a government one that doesnt need to make a profit,wont be constricted by laws and will get unlimited bailouts?

[Hedgehog]

Really?Please explain how private health insureres will be able to compete with a government one that doesnt need to make a profit,wont be constricted by laws and will get unlimited bailouts?

Because the public option has to cover anyone.

In all likelihood, it may not be as "elite" as some private options.

Ie, with the public option you may have to wait longer to get surgery.

And private insurance could be taylor made to fit the healthy and wealthy.

So they will only compete for those that they can make profit off.

The theory is that the public option will bring down the price tag for these groups somewhat though.


Look Billy, I'm not saying that this is what will actually happen if uni health care is implemented on a big federal nation like the US, but it is how it's supposed to play out I guess.

[tonymctones]

Because the public option has to cover anyone.

In all likelihood, it may not be as "elite" as some private options.

Ie, with the public option you may have to wait longer to get surgery.

And private insurance could be taylor made to fit the healthy and wealthy.

So they will only compete for those that they can make profit off.

The theory is that the public option will bring down the price tag for these groups somewhat though.


Look Billy, I'm not saying that this is what will actually happen if uni health care is implemented on a big federal nation like the US, but it is how it's supposed to play out I guess.

no sir the bill also includes provisions that prevent private insurers from discriminating against certain individuals and price gouging individuals...they will be made to serve everyone just as the public option...remember the whole the public option would be no different than private insurance rhetoric?

[Soul Crusher]

no sir the bill also includes provisions that prevent private insurers from discriminating against certain individuals and price gouging individuals...they will be made to serve everyone just as the public option...remember the whole the public option would be no different than private insurance rhetoric?

The CBO said the public option will end up costing more in premiums than event he private ones. 

This entire scheme is terrible and does nothing to bring down costs. 

Even many of the Senate Dems are running away from this mess as quick as possible. 

[tonymctones]

The CBO said the public option will end up costing more in premiums than event he private ones. 

This entire scheme is terrible and does nothing to bring down costs. 

Even many of the Senate Dems are running away from this mess as quick as possible. 

I agree it seems like the forest has been missed for the trees, public options, new regulations etc...are the main points not bringing down the cost of insurance and to tax payers.