Author Topic: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article  (Read 1447 times)

the_steevo_uk

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Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« on: November 15, 2009, 04:34:49 PM »
My fists were curling up when i read parts of this...im sure some of you will feel the same.

From The Times
November 7, 2009
'Islam does not justify this act of terrorism'

Worshippers at one of Britain’s biggest mosques reacted to the Fort Hood shooting yesterday by saying Muslims who serve in the Armed Forces are complicit in killing their “brothers and sisters” in Afghanistan.

However, a Muslim ex-soldier who twice served in Afghanistan said that the shooting could not be justified by any mainstream interpretation of Islam. Speaking to The Times after Friday prayers at East London mosque, young Muslim men said the lives of those who follow Islam were of more value than those of non-believers. They gave only their first names, claiming that the authorities might place them under investigation.

Mustapha, 26, from South London, said that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were wars against Muslims and he would not consider joining the Army nor encourage fellow Muslims to. “I would not fight against my friends and brothers,” the house-builder said. “The Koran says even if you make allies with non-Muslims and join them to kill Muslims, then you die as a non-believer.”

Asked his views on the killings at Fort Hood, he said: “Killing military members is all right. If you are killing people who are fighting against Muslims then that’s okay.”
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Abdul-Hakim, 17, who was born in Britain but spent his formative years in Tanzania, said it was a bigger crime to kill Muslims than non-Muslims such as the soldiers at Fort Hood: “For you to go and kill your own brother, that’s more of a crime than killing them.” Ashraf, a Somali-born A-level student, said that only God could judge the murders committed by Major Hasan. “I’m not saying I justify it,” said the 17-year-old. “But maybe if he was alive he could justify what he done.”

But their views contrasted with those of other Muslims. Zeeshan Hashmi, 30, who was born in Pakistan and served as a British soldier from 2000 to 2005, did two tours in Afghanistan. “People would ask what I would do if I was asked to fight fellow Muslims, but for me it was all about going there to help create a better understanding between peoples,” he told The Times.

In 2006 Mr Hashmi’s brother, Lance Corporal Jabron Hashmi, became the first British Muslim soldier to be killed fighting the Taleban.

“Jabron and I never had any difficulties squaring our identities as both British soldiers and Muslims,” he said.

Mr Hashmi, in his final year as a Cambridge undergraduate, said Major Hasan’s killings would be celebrated by some jihadist extremists but could not be justified by any mainstream interpretation of Islam.“If an individual walks into a facility where people are unarmed and opens fire indiscriminately, that’s an act of terrorism.”

Mr Hashmi said most Muslims would react to the atrocity with horror, but also with concern that it would be used to sow division. “People will feel they’ve got to justify their existence all over again and that’s not fair. Remember Columbine? That was terrible too, but it didn’t make us distrust all schoolchildren, did it?”

Imam Asim Hafiz, a British army chaplain, said that he knew of no Muslims in the Forces who had objected to service in Afghanistan or Iraq. “What we do in Afghanistan is of concern not just to the Muslim community but for British society in general,” he said.

Muslims comprise 0.3 per cent of the forces — about 500 are in uniform — but 2.3 per cent of the population.

rccs

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2009, 10:57:32 AM »
There is no such thing as british muslims. British are british and muslims are... scum... I just don't get why Europe still allows these traitors of our home lands to stay and rob our jobs and forcing our governments to change our traditions because of their believes...
S

headhuntersix

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2009, 11:02:38 AM »
Very true...but folks next time the holier then thou Euro's try and tell us we're fucked up...look at that.
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shootfighter1

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2009, 11:04:00 AM »
Parts of that are very scary.  There is a real divide in the muslim community and this is a real problem.  We want to welcome peaceful muslims to become citizens if they assimilate and want to be American (or British) but we can't allow increasing #s of Muslims who want to change the country to be an islamic state.  That's intolerable.

The British should see what a disaster they have created for themselves and need to take precautions or else their country will be forever changed.  Sad.  England is such a beautiful place, full of history.

Kazan

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2009, 11:08:49 AM »
Like I have said many time Islam is first to a Muslim, so being an American/Brit is not important to them.
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shootfighter1

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2009, 11:14:53 AM »
Kazan, that is a real problem.  Many muslims are so strong with their religion, it becomes their life.  Customs, law, allegiance, and religion are all 1 to some....and some are inflexible.
UK and US need to establish guidelines welcoming muslims as long as they agree their will never be sharia law here and we will not change our laws, ways and customs to accomodate them.
 
I don't want an influx of closed minded people who don't love this country here.

Kazan

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2009, 11:18:15 AM »
Kazan, that is a real problem.  Many muslims are so strong with their religion, it becomes their life.  Customs, law, allegiance, and religion are all 1 to some....and some are inflexible.
UK and US need to establish guidelines welcoming muslims as long as they agree their will never be sharia law here and we will not change our laws, ways and customs to accomodate them.
 
I don't want an influx of closed minded people who don't love this country here.

I don't want an influx of people at all we have enough, and as far as the Muslims are concerned, if they don't like our customs and law then they can stay in the shithole they are in. Make no mistake there is a war going on, the Muslims know they can't beat the west militarily, so they immigrate and out breed you.
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rccs

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2009, 11:20:09 AM »
Kazan, that is a real problem.  Many muslims are so strong with their religion, it becomes their life.  Customs, law, allegiance, and religion are all 1 to some....and some are inflexible.
UK and US need to establish guidelines welcoming muslims as long as they agree their will never be sharia law here and we will not change our laws, ways and customs to accomodate them.
 
I don't want an influx of closed minded people who don't love this country here.
I find it very hard to happen... Western governments are afraid of retaliation if they were to establish such a requisit! But I agree with you, plus, I would like to see every muslim tha t never payed taxes and receives some kingd of state money beig deported to scumland...
S

Soul Crusher

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2009, 11:25:48 AM »
I find it very hard to happen... Western governments are afraid of retaliation if they were to establish such a requisit! But I agree with you, plus, I would like to see every muslim tha t never payed taxes and receives some kingd of state money beig deported to scumland...

The Labour Party admitted to trying to bring in as many muslims as possible for votes. 

The same thing happenes in the USA.

the_steevo_uk

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2009, 11:32:35 AM »
The Labour Party admitted to trying to bring in as many muslims as possible for votes. 

The same thing happenes in the USA.

Its only been last week after months of denying it had anything to do with them that the Labour party admitted they had got it wrong on immigration and that the rise of the extreme right BNP had connections to the issue. Even then they still tried to blame the Tories for the problem, despite the fact they've been out of power for 13 years...

sometimes one can only hold one's head in despair.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2009, 11:34:35 AM »
Its only been last week after months of denying it had anything to do with them that the Labour party admitted they had got it wrong on immigration and that the rise of the extreme right BNP had connections to the issue. Even then they still tried to blame the Tories for the problem, despite the fact they've been out of power for 13 years...

sometimes one can only hold one's head in despair.

Fuck that! 

Take your country back from these vermin on the left! 

shootfighter1

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2009, 11:37:12 AM »
steevo, what part of the uk are you from?

What's the latest with national politics?  Is the labour party still real strong?  How real is backlash against the immigration policies (or lack thereof)

headhuntersix

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2009, 11:39:20 AM »
They're on there ass...labor is on the way out. Many of local elections have gone to the conservatives. There was a few good articles over the weekend on the state of UK/Euro politics.
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rccs

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2009, 11:41:00 AM »
Problem is that most people on our homelands are left ideology and they think that if a conservative/right party with strong ideas and clear guidelines on how to rule a country, they will be losing their "freedom" to be gay, continue with corruption, continue wit being pedos and exploit some other immigrants using the "globalization" philosofy to bring out "progress".
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shootfighter1

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2009, 11:45:18 AM »
I can understand some leftist ideology as it pertains to government control, gov distribution of goods and services (which may be easier in a smaller country like England) but there is no justification for allowing so many radical muslims into the country who openly want England to be a Muslim state.  Do people fear loosing their country and customs to those who openly defy assimilation?

Just because they want to prevent ultra right wingers from gaining power shouldn't mean they allow muslims to change their country, demand shaira law, etc....very odd.

Fury

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2009, 11:45:49 AM »
There was a great video on youtube that I can't find that showed polling statistics of Muslims in the UK. Among other things, over 50% believed that Western society needed to be eradicated and that Sharia Law needed to be established in the UK. Disturbing statistics.

shootfighter1

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2009, 11:48:02 AM »
There was a similar report on CNN last week.  Most of the muslims polled considered themselves muslims first and English 2nd and their primary allegiance was to Islam.

Seems like the Indians and Blacks have assimilated well to become part of the English culture some time ago but Pakis and many muslims are causing real problems there.  Is that your take on it?

headhuntersix

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2009, 11:48:27 AM »
Thats all leftists bullshit.....u can gay it up all u want, just don't do it near me. I'm sure the Conservative movement in England won't ban being gay..or ban fun..or anything else. I have alot of relatives spread between England and Ireland and I hate to see whats happened to the UK.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2009, 11:49:28 AM »
There was a similar report on CNN last week.  Most of the muslims polled considered themselves muslims first and English 2nd.

Seems like the Indians and Blacks have assimilated to become part of the English culture some time ago but Pakis and many muslims are causing real problems there.  Is that your take on it?

Shoot:  why should they assimilate? 

They are given welfare, benefits, rights, etc, and nothing is demanded of them. 

rccs

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2009, 11:51:53 AM »
Shoot:  why should they assimilate? 

They are given welfare, benefits, rights, etc, and nothing is demanded of them. 
TRUE!!!!
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Fury

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2009, 11:52:40 AM »
There was a similar report on CNN last week.  Most of the muslims polled considered themselves muslims first and English 2nd and their primary allegiance was to Islam.

Seems like the Indians and Blacks have assimilated to become part of the English culture some time ago but Pakis and many muslims are causing real problems there.  Is that your take on it?

Yeah, the polls I've seen show that the majority of European Muslims place their religion ahead of their country and consider themselves Muslims first and foremost. And I believe it. It would explain all these homegrown radicals that want to destroy the countries they were born in.

shootfighter1

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2009, 11:54:17 AM »
Yeah, that's what they have created with the lack of laws unfortunately.  I can't imagine there isn't some real backlash.  
I'm nearly certain that in some areas of England they either were considering or do honor some aspects of sharia law....certainly no reason to assimilate at all if that's the case.

the_steevo_uk

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2009, 11:54:48 AM »
They're on there ass...labor is on the way out. Many of local elections have gone to the conservatives. There was a few good articles over the weekend on the state of UK/Euro politics.


RE: shootfighter
Im from London my area is traditionally Tory, though there was a labour guy in 1997 and 2001.

the immigration issue will probably now be the major issue to define the election, it has basically become critical since the British National Party (who until two weeks ago only allowed whites to join) won a number of seats at the European election, essentially the BNP takes its support from Labour's core voters, the north and east london, primarily white and working class. These people feel let down by labour and feel that their jobs are being taken by immigrants, and so the BNP has filled the hole that's been left. As a result the major parties have really had to take notice, Labour in particular since it represents the biggest threat to them. Most right wingers dont go to the BNP they either form a wing of the Tory party or have moved on to join the United Kingdom Independence Party (or UKIP).

Re: HH6
Thing is this, British politics is tribal, there will always be people (especially in northern towns and cities) who will vote labour because they hated thatcher and David Cameron simply isnt enough to convince them that the tories care about the working class, and of course theyre not racist so they wont go BNP. The election will be tighter than you think, the Tories have not made huge inroads much further north than the midlands, no doubt they'll win, but you could find that their majority is negligible. Whatever happens its going to be interesting, I quite like Cameron's ideas about big society, which is an attempt to move power to the consumer and the community away from the government and the corporation, but i need to see some more policy which represents those ideas before I'm happy.

The main problem is Gordon Brown, he's extrememly unpopular and a polarising figure who makes enemies in his own party whilst inspiring others. Once he goes, Labour will try to rebuild and focus on regaining lost votes from the BNP and Tories. Interesting times, but less and less people seem to give a shit, politicians are more unpopular than ever, voter turn out is WAAY down and with the numerous expenses scandals that have happened this year I dont see that trend changing....so i suppose sad but interesting times.

shootfighter1

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Re: Being Muslim and British, interesting Article
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2009, 01:08:55 PM »
Thanks for the summary steevo.  Hope all parties at least recognize the problem with open immigration and entitlements. 
I loved England when I was there...nearly all of it (except when we went to the southeast corner of London and it seemed very different).
The wife & I plan to visit London again sometime within the year.