Author Topic: Giuliani Supported 2006 Terror Trials, Now Does Right-Wing Reach-Around to Fearm  (Read 2034 times)

blacken700

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Conservatives like Rudy Giuliani can change their views in a blink of an eye . Anytime there's some Obama bashing to be done, conservatives happily join in even when they look like fools. Rudy, who was called as a witness in the trial of Moussaoui and applauded the America legal system now says that putting KSM on trial in New York is a really, really bad idea? Why? Well, because Rudy says so.

Soul Crusher

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Your intellectual level is far too low for you to understand the differences between the two.   

Eric15210

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Rudy a conservative hawk  ;D nice try
RIP Bob Probert

blacken700

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why don't you explane it to me, you fucking phony

Soul Crusher

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why don't you explane it to me, you fucking phony

Mousoui was not caught in a foregin country and subjected to enhanced interrogation.  Ramzi Yusef was also not sbjected to enhanced interrogastion and thus the evidence against him was not thrown out on the vbasis that it was the result of coercion.  Look up "Fruit of the Poison Tree" doctrine and you understand what I am discussing, which is far more complex than your understanding.     

We also have the sad experience of these two trials resulting in intel being leaked to Al Quaeda to our detriment.  Look up what happened with the use of satellite phones we used to track al quaeda people.  As soon as the evidence was released in court, the terrorists changed tactics. 

 



240 is Back

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Nah, Rudy does look bad on this one.  He supported civilian terrorists for some terrorists and not others.  You can bet your ass if Dubya had done this, Rudy would be supporting and trying to attach his name somehow.

I don't like the idea of a civilian trial.  I'd make em walk the plank tomorrow AM. 

Suddenly, Rudy believes it was a mistake in the past, but only when called on it does he admit it.  Weak on his part.  When FOX news makes him stumble, ya KNOW he is backpedaling.

Soul Crusher

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Nah, Rudy does look bad on this one.  He supported civilian terrorists for some terrorists and not others.  You can bet your ass if Dubya had done this, Rudy would be supporting and trying to attach his name somehow.

I don't like the idea of a civilian trial.  I'd make em walk the plank tomorrow AM. 

Suddenly, Rudy believes it was a mistake in the past, but only when called on it does he admit it.  Weak on his part.  When FOX news makes him stumble, ya KNOW he is backpedaling.

240 - how about this, can someone change their mind beased on a negative past experience?  For example, the use of satellite phones stoped immediately by al Quaeda once it was revealed in open court.  We used those to track them and no longer can. 

Could that possibly be used as a reason to change ones' mind? 

chadstallion

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of course.
he's running for prez and needs to conservative vote.
it will be fun to see just how far to the right these GOPers will be.
w

James

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Conservatives like Rudy Giuliani

that is a good one!



pro choice, anti 2nd amendment Rudy Giuliani

blacken700

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For 7 long years after the attack on the towers, bush and company had most of these people in Gitmo. Now if this is what they wanted to do all along how come all these prisoners are still sitting at gitmo

Soul Crusher

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For 7 long years after the attack on the towers, bush and company had most of these people in Gitmo. Now if this is what they wanted to do all along how come all these prisoners are still sitting at gitmo

I agree that Bush should have prosecuted KSM a long time ago in a military tribunal.  He definately dropped the ball ni that respect. 

He already confessed and said he wanted the death penalty. 

Soul Crusher

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Blacken:  is Patterson a right wing freak?

________________________ ________________________ _____

Paterson Rips White House For NYC 9/11 Trial
New York Governor Says Trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, 4 Others In New York 'A Decision I Would Not Have Made'NEW YORK (CBS) ―  Click to enlarge1 of 3


Brennan Linsley/AFP/Getty Images

Gov. David Paterson openly criticized the White House on Monday, saying he thought it was a terrible idea to move alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other suspected terrorists to New York for trial.

"This is not a decision that I would have made. I think terrorism isn't just attack, it's anxiety and I think you feel the anxiety and frustration of New Yorkers who took the bullet for the rest of the country," he said.

Paterson's comments break with Democrats, who generally support the President's decision.

Republicans said the group should be tried in a different location under military tribunal because the attacks are considered an act of war.

Instead, the five suspects will be tried at the federal court house, just steps from Ground Zero.

Attorney General Eric Holder said he decided to bring the suspects, currently detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to trial in New York because of the nature of the undisclosed evidence against them, because the 9/11 victims were mostly civilians, and because the attacks took place on U.S. soil.

New Yorkers are taking sides over the terror trial for the accused mastermind of the September 11 attacks. "I think it's a logistical and security nightmare for the American People," Alice Hoagland, mother of a 9/11 victim, said.

Hoagland's son was a passenger on United Flight 93 when terrorists crashed it into a Pennsylvania field on that tragic day. Hoagland worries that bringing the self-proclaimed mastermind of the attacks, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, and his accomplices to New York would make the city an even bigger target – and some security experts agree.

"Keeping the courthouse secure, keeping downtown secure, we've got the manpower to do that, but what we worry about is suicide bombers, something that could attract other terrorists like the ones that are being tried," Robert Strang, of Investigative Management Group, said.

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the NYPD is fully prepared.

"We've handled high profile events, certainly high profile trials in the past, and we'll be able to do it," Kelly said.

"I am pleased that they're moving these trials to New York near the scene of the crime, giving the families that were most affected [the opportunity] to see the trials," Lorie Van Auken, wife of a 9/11 victim, said.

Van Auken lost her husband, Kenneth, on September 11, and she said she'll be in the federal courtroom for the terror trial. She said the military court proceedings in Guantanamo Bay were not open enough.

"It would be very assuring to me and a lot of others to see the American system of justice work," Van Auken said.

Some relatives fear the suspects could be freed on a technicality that a defense attorney could challenge Mohammed's confession to planning the attacks. The government admitted to using water-boarding interrogation techniques on him 183 times in 2003.

"But ultimately, the administration would not have put these five individuals into the federal system, I think, if they weren't convinced they could get a conviction," CBS News security consultant Juan Zarate said.

Defense lawyers could argue that Mohammed's six years in detention have already violated his right to a fair trial. They could also challenge if it's possible to get an impartial jury in New York, where nearly 3,000 people were killed on September 11.

muscleforlife

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This is a sticky situation all around.  Another blunder by the previous administration.

Either the 9/11 attackers caused an act of war and should have been held as prisoners of war, treated under the rules of the Geneva convention.

Treated as a criminal act, they should be held as civilian criminals and treated according to the state laws in which the crime was committed.

Bush/Cheney never did define which way to charge  them....just hold them indefinitely.....
Sandra

Kazan

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This is a sticky situation all around.  Another blunder by the previous administration.

Either the 9/11 attackers caused an act of war and should have been held as prisoners of war, treated under the rules of the Geneva convention.

Treated as a criminal act, they should be held as civilian criminals and treated according to the state laws in which the crime was committed.

Bush/Cheney never did define which way to charge  them....just hold them indefinitely.....
Sandra

Well maybe because they don't fit the category of either. They are not affiliated with a foreign countries military so they are not uniformed soldiers subject to the rules of the Geneva conventions, they are not American citzens so how do you treat it as a law enforcement issue? In any other war they would have been interrogated and then executed, end of story
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

headhuntersix

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FDR executed German saboteurs...Bush should have ignored the ACLU and other lib douchbag groups and strung them up.
L

240 is Back

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FDR executed German saboteurs...Bush should have ignored the ACLU and other lib douchbag groups and strung them up.

Bush did a lot of shady shit and basically just gave history and the world the finger.
ignored 911 intel hand-delivered to him, mocked 4000 deaths by looking for WMD in couch cushions, etc etc.

Why not announce he's releasing the gitmo guys and sink their ship? 

George Whorewell

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Some of you guys are just total idiots.

Even left wing stooge Mike Lupica wrote an oped in the Daily News today stating that he doesn't want the trials here either.

33386 explained  accurately why Rudy supported civilian trials in one instance and not the other. You guys are just too fucking dumb to figure out the reasoning.

I'll dumb it down for you without getting too legally complex. The first guys were treated like criminal defendants-- captured in this country. Mousaui was captured inside the country. Moussaui was never given enhanced interogation. KSM never set foot in America, not even once-- and he still hasn't ( unless you consider Guantanmo America). KSM was subjected to enhanced interogation reserved specficially for non-criminal defendants-- any and all intel obtained as a result would be inadmissible in a civilian court.

Is it really that hard to grasp why one situation is different than the other? 

240 is Back

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good points GW.

I heard there are 6000 convicted terrorists in US prisons - I had no clue we had that many.

Hedgehog

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Was Muhammad the mastermind?
Thought I've heard stories about him just being a bus driver basically and admitting after torture?

Or am I confusing this guy with someone else?
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