Author Topic: The World Is About To Come To An End... Again... Hadron Collider Reactivated  (Read 7109 times)

SAMSON123

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8670
Large Hadron Collider restarts after 14 months of repairs

The Large Hadron Collider, the world's largest atom smasher, has been re-started after a 14-month hiatus for repairs.


 
Published: 12:08AM GMT 21 Nov 2009
Large Hadron Collider to start again, but costs rise in race to discover 'God Particle'

Progress on restarting the machine went faster than expected on Friday evening and the first beam started circulating in a clockwise direction around the machine about 10 pm, said James Gillies, spokesman for the European Organisation for Nuclear Research, known as Cern.

The machine, which was designed to smash together beams of protons in a bid recreate conditions after the Big Bang, was launched with great fanfare last year. But just nine days after the launch, it suffered a spectacular failure from a bad electrical connection.
 
"It's great to see beam circulating in the LHC again," said Rolf Heuer, Cern's director-general.

"We've still got some way to go before physics can begin, but with this milestone we're well on the way."

The first day of last year's launch went unusually well: beams of protons were quickly sent in both directions, happily surprising many of the scientists around the world used to delays and problems with such superconducting equipment.

But nine days later a single electrical splice overheated because it had been badly soldered, and disaster struck. Fifty-three of 1,624 large superconducting magnets - some of them 50 feet long - were damaged and had to be replaced.

An electric arc punctured the container holding the liquid helium used to keep the collider at a temperature colder than outer space for maximum efficiency. Six tons of helium leaked out, overpowering the relief valves and adding to the damage.

Cern had to clean "soot-like dust" from the firehose-size pipes meant to contain an extreme vacuum so that nothing would obstruct the proton beams passing through.

"It was a disaster, no question about it," said Chip Brock, a physics professor at Michigan State University. But he said Cern had taken a number of innovative steps to avoid a repeat.

"This problem won't happen again," he told The Associated Press.
C

haider

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11978
  • Team Batman Squats
why exactly would the world end? It could create very tiny blackholes it is true, but they would only last for microseconds or so. There's tiny blackholes created in our atmosphere everyday anyway, so this is nothing to be concerned about.
follow the arrows

MB_722

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11173
  • RIP Keith
I was juiced the other day and called this a hard on collider hahahaha

Hedgehog

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19466
  • It Rubs The Lotion On Its Skin.
Samson, the only one who's gonna blow up is BerzerkFury when he sees you've started this thread.  :D
As empty as paradise

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
I was juiced the other day and called this a hard on collider hahahaha
that's gay lol... lets hope hardons never collide and form a blackhole that swallows us all up :-X lol

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
The new Star Trek movie is out and in the movie just a tiny, little drop of red matter causes a huge black hole that can swallow entire planets.

If I were you Samson, I would be afraid.  Very, very afraid.  I'll be OK though...I plan to warp out of here just before the planet implodes.

MB_722

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11173
  • RIP Keith
that's gay lol... lets hope hardons never collide and form a blackhole that swallows us all up :-X lol

LOL  :D

SAMSON123

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8670
why exactly would the world end? It could create very tiny blackholes it is true, but they would only last for microseconds or so. There's tiny blackholes created in our atmosphere everyday anyway, so this is nothing to be concerned about.

Black holes are just like bacteria...you only need one with a little food and soon you have a massive colony in no time at all. Once a black hole is formed it immediately begins absorbing its surroundings (matter) and grows becoming greater in size and strength. Considering the fact that this things would exist on earth, the potential is for the whole earth to be absorbed, then the moon, Venus, mars, Jupiter, the sun etc etc. I am coming to this conclusion only because this is what the scientist have been saying happens (at least theoretically) and remember every large and powerful black hole started out as in infinitesimally small one. Why take the chance and stir that cauldron?...
C

Eyeball Chambers

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14344
  • Would you hold still? You're making me fuck up...
I was juiced the other day and called this a hard on collider hahahaha

Trailer Park Boys.... haha
S

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
moonbots.........

Miniature Black Hole bots.....

Strangelet bots.....

Vacuum bots.....


Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
moonbots......... :D
who?  those who say "no big deal, it's just a tiny black hole?" :D

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
who?  those who say "no big deal, it's just a tiny black hole?" :D

Well, there are  some scientists who say there might be miniature black holes, or strangelets, of even a vacuum phenom.  But many scientists seem to think not.  The mBH's will dissolve or dissipate say some physicists. 

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
This might help quell one's fears.....


Physicists Will Not Destroy the World!
Why we need not worry
about the Large Hadron Collider
by Lawrence Krauss

LLOYD B. LUEPTOW’S ARTICLE on the “Large Hadron Collider and the Threats of Catastrophe” clearly illustrates how science is different than sociology. The author seems to think that by doing a literature search and quoting every possible source and every possible viewpoint that he will get closer to scientific truth. However, that is simply not how science works. One doesn’t do a democratic weighting of the literature.

Rather, in science one applies logic (usually mathematical in form) to ideas that are constrained by experiment and observation. Nature, not a majority vote, determines what is false and what is not.

Instead one sees here a substitution of a comprehensive reference list, without filtering based on knowledge, for sound thinking. The result is a silly argument about why we should never perform experiments whose results we are not certain about beforehand — a recipe for ending scientific discovery.
Now, to specifics.
It doesn’t matter to me that Dr. Otto E. Rossler has 300 publications to his credit. Does he have any demonstrated expertise in particle theory, quantum gravity, or general relativity? I could not find any. Rossler’s estimates are not based on standard quantum gravitational or general relativistic calculations.
Lueptow misrepresents misplaced concerns of a few individuals with real controversy within the scientific community … the same misconception that has clouded public understanding of evolutionary biology and global warming. To my knowledge, no credible expert has expressed concern about the LHC.

Cosmic rays have been bombarding the earth and moon with thousands of times more energy than the particles at the LHC will have, and we have survived for 4.5 billion years. For those who are somehow concerned that the LHC will produce such particles in the center of mass frame, whereas collisions in the moon will not be in the center of mass, allowing any collision products to travel forward and thereby somehow miraculously make it all the way through the moon without stopping, similar arguments apply to unbelievably dense neutron stars, almost certain to capture any collision products. These are observed to exist for at least hundreds of millions, if not billions of years. This empirical evidence obviates any concerns about what might happen at the LHC.

Ordinary mini-black holes cannot be produced at the LHC unless a host of (unlikely) new physics, involving dramatic modifications of gravity and the existence of other large dimensions is the case. Not only is this possibility very remote, but even if it were true, the same quantum processes that might produce such microscopic black holes would allow them to decay by quantum processes. While it is true that our understanding of the latter stages of black hole evaporation is spotty at the present time, what is true is that precisely the same calculations that suggest the remote possibility that miniblack holes might be produced at the LHC also would imply that these behave like elementary particles and also decay quickly. If they are wrong, then the black holes will not be produced anyway.

Estimates produced in speculative papers should not be taken as assertions. Savas Dimopoulos, for example, who is quoted as saying that one mini-black hole will be produced each second, was performing calculations that explored various hypothetical possibilities. Moreover, it should be noted that Prof. Dimopoulos has never argued that the mini-black hole that might conceivably be produced if these speculative ideas were correct would be anything but exotic curiosities to be explored at accelerators, and not earth-destroying monsters.

The Tevatron at Fermilab is already operating at energies within a factor of 5 of the LHC, and we are still around. This provides additional evidence that a catastrophe at the LHC is unlikely.

The discussion of strangelets is irrelevant. The scientific community examined this possibility before the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Brookhaven turned on, and decided there was no danger, and years after it did turn on, we are still here.
Science is not carried out by debates between teams. The community is open, and all ideas are considered, and those that survive the test of time, and experiment, rise to the top. The great thing about science is that we don’t have to continue to follow both sides of an argument, because ultimately one side is generally proved to be wrong.

The author clearly has another confusion that is common. The fact that there is much we do not know about the universe at its extremes of scale does not imply that there is little we do know. We can use our existing knowledge to reliably constrain the range of phenomena that can happen at the LHC

Finally, there will always be some uncertainty in any experiment we perform where we are opening a new window on nature. But to suggest that we close all windows and shutter all doors to rational inquiry, whether the subject is particle physics or genetic engineering is a recipe for disaster. We need to keep an open mind, but not so open that our brains fall out.

doison

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3448
  • Rum Ham
remember every large and powerful black hole started out as in infinitesimally small one. Why take the chance and stir that cauldron?...

You sure about that one Einstein? lol
Y

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
You sure about that one Einstein? lol

As sure as the moon landing was faked........  lol

SAMSON123

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8670
You sure about that one Einstein? lol

You believe otherwise? How was the large black holes formed? Did they just appear already massive? SOrt of like a full grown adult being born out of a woman?

This is a message board? I am open to hearing everyones opinions as I hope everyone else is. No insults, sarcasm etc. Just state your opinion on what you feel about the topic..
C

SAMSON123

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8670
This might help quell one's fears.....


Physicists Will Not Destroy the World!
Why we need not worry
about the Large Hadron Collider
by Lawrence Krauss

LLOYD B. LUEPTOW’S ARTICLE on the “Large Hadron Collider and the Threats of Catastrophe” clearly illustrates how science is different than sociology. The author seems to think that by doing a literature search and quoting every possible source and every possible viewpoint that he will get closer to scientific truth. However, that is simply not how science works. One doesn’t do a democratic weighting of the literature.

Rather, in science one applies logic (usually mathematical in form) to ideas that are constrained by experiment and observation. Nature, not a majority vote, determines what is false and what is not.

Instead one sees here a substitution of a comprehensive reference list, without filtering based on knowledge, for sound thinking. The result is a silly argument about why we should never perform experiments whose results we are not certain about beforehand — a recipe for ending scientific discovery.
Now, to specifics.
It doesn’t matter to me that Dr. Otto E. Rossler has 300 publications to his credit. Does he have any demonstrated expertise in particle theory, quantum gravity, or general relativity? I could not find any. Rossler’s estimates are not based on standard quantum gravitational or general relativistic calculations.
Lueptow misrepresents misplaced concerns of a few individuals with real controversy within the scientific community … the same misconception that has clouded public understanding of evolutionary biology and global warming. To my knowledge, no credible expert has expressed concern about the LHC.

Cosmic rays have been bombarding the earth and moon with thousands of times more energy than the particles at the LHC will have, and we have survived for 4.5 billion years. For those who are somehow concerned that the LHC will produce such particles in the center of mass frame, whereas collisions in the moon will not be in the center of mass, allowing any collision products to travel forward and thereby somehow miraculously make it all the way through the moon without stopping, similar arguments apply to unbelievably dense neutron stars, almost certain to capture any collision products. These are observed to exist for at least hundreds of millions, if not billions of years. This empirical evidence obviates any concerns about what might happen at the LHC.

Ordinary mini-black holes cannot be produced at the LHC unless a host of (unlikely) new physics, involving dramatic modifications of gravity and the existence of other large dimensions is the case. Not only is this possibility very remote, but even if it were true, the same quantum processes that might produce such microscopic black holes would allow them to decay by quantum processes. While it is true that our understanding of the latter stages of black hole evaporation is spotty at the present time, what is true is that precisely the same calculations that suggest the remote possibility that miniblack holes might be produced at the LHC also would imply that these behave like elementary particles and also decay quickly. If they are wrong, then the black holes will not be produced anyway.

Estimates produced in speculative papers should not be taken as assertions. Savas Dimopoulos, for example, who is quoted as saying that one mini-black hole will be produced each second, was performing calculations that explored various hypothetical possibilities. Moreover, it should be noted that Prof. Dimopoulos has never argued that the mini-black hole that might conceivably be produced if these speculative ideas were correct would be anything but exotic curiosities to be explored at accelerators, and not earth-destroying monsters.

The Tevatron at Fermilab is already operating at energies within a factor of 5 of the LHC, and we are still around. This provides additional evidence that a catastrophe at the LHC is unlikely.

The discussion of strangelets is irrelevant. The scientific community examined this possibility before the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Brookhaven turned on, and decided there was no danger, and years after it did turn on, we are still here.
Science is not carried out by debates between teams. The community is open, and all ideas are considered, and those that survive the test of time, and experiment, rise to the top. The great thing about science is that we don’t have to continue to follow both sides of an argument, because ultimately one side is generally proved to be wrong.

The author clearly has another confusion that is common. The fact that there is much we do not know about the universe at its extremes of scale does not imply that there is little we do know. We can use our existing knowledge to reliably constrain the range of phenomena that can happen at the LHC

Finally, there will always be some uncertainty in any experiment we perform where we are opening a new window on nature. But to suggest that we close all windows and shutter all doors to rational inquiry, whether the subject is particle physics or genetic engineering is a recipe for disaster. We need to keep an open mind, but not so open that our brains fall out.


Keep in mind LHC is EXPERIMENTAL and is dealing with the UNKNOWN. This device not only has a frightening look to it (sort of like an mechanical octopus), it reminds me of the movie FRANKENSTEIN... and just like THE MONSTER it was an experiment that ended up going ALL WRONG even though Dr. Frankenstein thought everything was under control and nothing could/would happen. His own experiment/science/monster ended up causing his death and massive destuction. Well the LHC is more than THE MONSTER...much more. Not only is this dealing with the unknown the theoretical potential of creating black holes, unknown energy fields, Anti matter, abberations of all types should make anyone second  guess messing around with it. I am surprised the French and Swiss people are so calm about this thing starting up again given its potential. COuld France and Switzerland etc be wiped off the map as though a many mega ton atomic blast had happened in Europe? The potential is there. I just personally think it is something best left alone.
C

ToxicAvenger

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26516
  • I thawt I taw a twat!
You believe otherwise? How was the large black holes formed?

Large black holes r formed from the gravitational collapse of MASSIVE bodies
carpe` vaginum!

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Large black holes r formed from the gravitational collapse of MASSIVE bodies
yea, and?

ToxicAvenger

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26516
  • I thawt I taw a twat!
yea, and?

Samson is trying to drive towards that large black holes originate from tiny black holes that eat up matter and get bigger...

hence giving credence to his "mini black holes will end planet earth" idiocy
carpe` vaginum!

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy

Keep in mind LHC is EXPERIMENTAL and is dealing with the UNKNOWN. This device not only has a frightening look to it (sort of like an mechanical octopus), it reminds me of the movie FRANKENSTEIN... and just like THE MONSTER it was an experiment that ended up going ALL WRONG even though Dr. Frankenstein thought everything was under control and nothing could/would happen. His own experiment/science/monster ended up causing his death and massive destuction. Well the LHC is more than THE MONSTER...much more. Not only is this dealing with the unknown the theoretical potential of creating black holes, unknown energy fields, Anti matter, abberations of all types should make anyone second  guess messing around with it. I am surprised the French and Swiss people are so calm about this thing starting up again given its potential. COuld France and Switzerland etc be wiped off the map as though a many mega ton atomic blast had happened in Europe? The potential is there. I just personally think it is something best left alone.

ROTFLMAO

So your retort is comparing this to a Frankenstein movie?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

BTW, the French and Swiss are so calm about this thing because they are not complete nut job CT idiots.

And you personally think this should be left alone?  Based on what?  Scary movies?  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Samson is trying to drive towards that large black holes originate from tiny black holes that eat up matter and get bigger...

hence giving credence to his "mini black holes will end planet earth" idiocy

There already an end the earth movie coming.....2012  lol

If the mini black holes don't get us, Nibiru will get us.   ;D

SAMSON123

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8670
Large black holes r formed from the gravitational collapse of MASSIVE bodies

What you are repeating here is what scientist have hypothesized happened in the formation of black holes. I am not knocking you or this theory, but IT IS A THEORY.

THe formation of and the mechanics necessary to bring a black hole into being may be a lot more simple or complex than what these theories suggest. Just given the black holes existance is strange to me..WHY? becasue I wonder what makes a star collapse in on itself? What has caused the stars gravity to magnify inself to such a level that it could accomplish a otherwise IMPOSSIBLE feat as this.

Essentially it would require that the stars gravity would amplify itself by magnitudes almost to astronomical to compute or imagine and this gravity would have the power to somehow pull all of the matter of the star and surrounding matterial together so hard/close that it would compress to a near point. There would then be the development of a sphere or disk of gravitational field about this point that would have the power to pull matter, planets, stars, solar systems and even whole galaxies into it?

This is a lot to phathom and comprehand. Nonetheless the formation of these black holes and their power is something very much NOT UNDERSTOOD and as I said even the remote potential that this or some other energy field: anti matter, anti gravity, abberations of an unknown kind forming is reason not to mess with it.
C

OzmO

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 22729
  • Drink enough Kool-aid and you'll think its healthy
Quote
Cosmic rays have been bombarding the earth and moon with thousands of times more energy than the particles at the LHC will have, and we have survived for 4.5 billion years.

The Tevatron at Fermilab is already operating at energies within a factor of 5 of the LHC, and we are still around. This provides additional evidence that a catastrophe at the LHC is unlikely.

The discussion of strangelets is irrelevant. The scientific community examined this possibility before the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Brookhaven turned on, and decided there was no danger, and years after it did turn on, we are still here.

Keep reading this until you fall asleep

Hugo Chavez

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 31866
Samson is trying to drive towards that large black holes originate from tiny black holes that eat up matter and get bigger...

hence giving credence to his "mini black holes will end planet earth" idiocy
I don't know shit about this.  so you're saying black holes don't grow past the size they were created?