Should the Republicans pick their battles a little better?

[Skip8282]

It seems to me from the posts on here that both sides and the middle tend to all agree that healthcare reform is needed. 

But, the Republicans, from everything I seem to be seeing, are hell bent on killing the bill in it's entirety.

Wouldn't it be a more successful fight to try harder and kill parts of the bill that they don't agree with and LOUDLY tell the public that they desperately want reform too?

Because it's really coming across that they don't want jackshit for reform.

[Fury]

I think this is a disaster in the making. Something of this magnitude should be slowly discussed and debated. Not just thrown together.

[Skip8282]

Agreed, I wish they would slow it down.  I think part of the problem is I can remember this being a huge issue during the Clinton era and now, about a decade later, we still have no reform.

It just seems to me that the conservatives are not coming across as wanting any reform.  Just the same old shit.  I think it would be more productive for them to say let's go after a handful of measures that we strongly disagree with and then come out in support of the rest of the bill.  It would at least give the appearance that they are trying.

[nicky.smth]

Agreed, I wish they would slow it down.  I think part of the problem is I can remember this being a huge issue during the Clinton era and now, about a decade later, we still have no reform.

It just seems to me that the conservatives are not coming across as wanting any reform.  Just the same old shit.  I think it would be more productive for them to say let's go after a handful of measures that we strongly disagree with and then come out in support of the rest of the bill.  It would at least give the appearance that they are trying.

that's the problem with conservatives, they are happy with the status quo. We pay the highest medical costs as a percentage of GDP around the globe, and the conservatives will be happy paying the highest costs for the next 200 years..

[tonymctones]

that's the problem with conservatives, they are happy with the status quo. We pay the highest medical costs as a percentage of GDP around the globe, and the conservatives will be happy paying the highest costs for the next 200 years..

and the problems with liberals is they want action for the sake of action nevermind whether it helps or not lets just do something is their motto...The spending bill ring a bell?

face it the obama vision of health care would be detrimental to this country especially in its current state.

Health care reform needs to happen but it needs to be scaled back from the pelosi/obama wet dream they are proposing now.

[Purge_WTF]

  It's because the Republican party (not Conservatives) have been in bed with big corporations ever since Reagan. Remember that video clip of that big business guy telling Reagan something to the effect of "Speed this up" when he announced the deregulation of corporate America?

[MM2K]

that's the problem with conservatives, they are happy with the status quo. We pay the highest medical costs as a percentage of GDP around the globe, and the conservatives will be happy paying the highest costs for the next 200 years..

Conservatives arent happy at all with the status quo. They want to reduce it, but there is no way they can unless they get a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. It is liberals who want to INCREASE the status quo.Because that is exactly what this bill will do by adding more costs and regulations Now, back in the 60s, conservatives WERE happy with the status quo. If people had listened to conservatives in the 60s we wouldnt have this problem. But now we have had decades long inflation in healthcare since the 60s. You also have to look yourself in the mirror and look at your own state's policies. Becuase that is a big part of it. Does your state force insurance companies to cover EVERYBODY they insurer for a particular sickness? A lot of states do. Some states force insurance companies to cover men for pap smear exams. Goerge Bush and Congressional Republicans cant help you if your liberal state had retarded policies like this. In Texas, we had malpractive reform in 2003, and we have recieved an influx of doctors since.

[Skip8282]

Health care reform needs to happen but it needs to be scaled back from the pelosi/obama wet dream they are proposing now.

And that's what I'm getting at, Tony.  Would it be more prudent for the Republicans to try and pull out the portions of the bill that they adamantly oppose rather than constantly trying to kill the entire thing?

Taking an obstructionist stance isn't helping with their public image.  Fighting a smarter battle rather than a bigger battle, just seems to me, to be a more constructive use of their time.

[Soul Crusher]

And that's what I'm getting at, Tony.  Would it be more prudent for the Republicans to try and pull out the portions of the bill that they adamantly oppose rather than constantly trying to kill the entire thing?

Taking an obstructionist stance isn't helping with their public image.  Fighting a smarter battle rather than a bigger battle, just seems to me, to be a more constructive use of their time.

They have no power to do that Skip since the far left dems will never go for it and the left wing base will revolt if the mod Dems and the GOP work together on something. 

The govt is the cause of the high prices, not the cure.  Why is it that in a recession, prices are still rising faster than the rate of inflation? 

Why is it that other goods and services are coming down in price while the quality and functionality increases?  I just bought a netbook for $300 that years ago would cost thousands for what it can do.  Yet we never ask why the same thing is not happening in health care, education, and all these other areas where the govt heavily subsidizes payments. 

If you want less cost, you need to get rid of the main cost driver - govt.   

[Skip8282]

They have no power to do that Skip since the far left dems will never go for it and the left wing base will revolt if the mod Dems and the GOP work together on something.

IMO public perception counts for a lot in politics.  If they're not able to do that, then they should be screaming to the public.  And I'm just hearing crickets aside from trying to kill the bill in it's entirety.

The govt is the cause of the high prices, not the cure.  Why is it that in a recession, prices are still rising faster than the rate of inflation? 

Why is it that other goods and services are coming down in price while the quality and functionality increases?  I just bought a netbook for $300 that years ago would cost thousands for what it can do.  Yet we never ask why the same thing is not happening in health care, education, and all these other areas where the govt heavily subsidizes payments. 

If you want less cost, you need to get rid of the main cost driver - govt.   

I doubt the government is the cause of prices going up especially in education and healthcare.  Both of those industries are huge investments in people.  You make a computer chip you can get those prices moving down.  But, human capital costs always go up.  Nurses, doctors, respiratory therapists...all require raises, all require continuing training/education.  Then there's fraud, abuse, insurance, etc. 

Don't get me wrong, I think government plays a role, but not to the extent you seem to be indicating.

[Skip8282]

And as long as doctors have come up in the thread, FUCK YOU PHYSICIANS.  I had to go to the hospital for my kid and the first 2 levels in the parking garage were all reserved for physicians.

WTF?
WHO THE FUCK DO YOU DOUCHEBAG PHYSICIANS THINK IS THE CUSTOMER?  WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IS PAYING YOUR BILLS?


/Meltdown over.  Think I'll go for a beer...

[George Whorewell]

If there is one inherent truth that politics inevitably brings to light time and time again, it's that the cure is almost ALWAYS worse than the disease.

The status quo is a lot better than bankrupting the country. At a time when the whole economy is on the brink of collapse, the deficit is at an astronomically high level and unemployment is rampant, this bloated and outright terrible piece of legislation is much much worse than the status quo.  The status quo was better than the stimulus bill. The status quo for emissions is a whole hell of a lot better than cap and trade. The status quo for dealing with terrorists was much better than the sissy PC dog and pony show that is now under way.

There is a time and a place for changing the status quo. Clearly, that time is not now. The American people DO NOT support any of this garbage and the Dem's are forcefeeding it to the country anyway.

But then again, maybe the country should get a taste of its own medicine for voting democratic in the first place. Be careful what you wish for.

Lets just pray that there is an America left when the public comes to its senses and votes all of these pieces of trash out of office.

[Skip8282]

No George, 5-10 years from now or whenever, there will always be another crisis, another economic issue, maybe even another war.  Now is just as good a time as any.  They can do this without bankrupting the country.  They can bring much needed reform to the healthcare system without the public option, without hooking up the trial lawyers, and without freebies for everyone.

People want reform, just not this monstrosity being forced down their throats.  But, IMO, it's coming.  So we can either try and make the best of it and get as much crap as humanely possible out of the bill or try and sink the bill in it's entirety.  I don't think the latter is going to happen, and I don't think it will make a good impression on the public.

[Soul Crusher]

No George, 5-10 years from now or whenever, there will always be another crisis, another economic issue, maybe even another war.  Now is just as good a time as any.  They can do this without bankrupting the country.  They can bring much needed reform to the healthcare system without the public option, without hooking up the trial lawyers, and without freebies for everyone.

People want reform, just not this monstrosity being forced down their throats.  But, IMO, it's coming.  So we can either try and make the best of it and get as much crap as humanely possible out of the bill or try and sink the bill in it's entirety.  I don't think the latter is going to happen, and I don't think it will make a good impression on the public.

The health bill does not scare me as much as the crap & tax bill.  Health care bill is horrific in its present form, but there is a chance to kill it.  Crap & Tax is utterly catastrophic and now based on what we know to be fraudulent data.

[Skip8282]

The health bill does not scare me as much as the crap & tax bill.  Health care bill is horrific in its present form, but there is a chance to kill it.  Crap & Tax is utterly catastrophic and now based on what we know to be fraudulent data.

Cap & Trade is a horrific mess.  I would think that's a bill that Republicans should condemn in it's entirety because I haven't seen anything of value in it.  But, there are things within the healthcare bill that do have value.  We just need to squeeze out the pork.