New Consensus: Stimulus Worked

[Soul Crusher]

That's exactly what it was meant to do.
It was a stimulus bill- meant to stimulate the economy quickly with an infusion of cash. The economy is cyclical and has to recover at some point.

It is "supposed to".  But what if it doesnt in the time frame they projected?  These people will be laid off anyway, yet we will still have the massive debt and deficits to deal with in the form of higher taxes later, a devalued dollar, etc.   

[Al Doggity]

It really didnt create jobs as it just kept existing things going for a little longer.   

Not true. There were definitely some jobs created. Even if all it did was keep existing things going for a little longer, then it was effective.

[BodyProSite]

well the government coulda left small businesses alone and things woulda lasted longer, but no, lets charge the tax payers 787 billion to do what we coulda done on our own !!  hmmmmm  that must be that harvard education thing working uhh hh ummm umm uh um uh um  dont you think?

[MCWAY]

Not true. There were definitely some jobs created. Even if all it did was keep existing things going for a little longer, then it was effective.

It was ALSO supposed to keep unemployment under 8 percent. It's at 10.2 percent......AND CLIMBING!!!

NOT EFFECTIVE!!!

[Al Doggity]

It is "supposed to".  But what if it doesnt in the time frame they projected?  These people will be laid off anyway, yet we will still have the massive debt and deficits to deal with in the form of higher taxes later, a devalued dollar, etc.   

That's preferable to a two year run of UE at 30%.

[Soul Crusher]

That's preferable to a two year run of UE at 30%.

We are heading there regardless AL.  We are at 17.5% now. 

[Al Doggity]

It was ALSO supposed to keep unemployment under 8 percent. It's at 10.2 percent......AND CLIMBING!!!

NOT EFFECTIVE!!!

It would have undoubtedly been hire without it. It didn't work as advertised, but we have done better with it than without.

[Al Doggity]

We are heading there regardless AL.  We are at 17.5% now. 

That's not a given.

[Soul Crusher]

It would have undoubtedly been hire without it. It didn't work as advertised, but we have done better with it than without.

Maybe so Al, but now that we have this massive debt to pay off, the real recovery will be delayed even that much longer since young people will have to pay higher taxes forever, deal with a horrible economy, and purchase goods with a dollar that is worthless.  

[Al Doggity]

Maybe so Al, but now that we have this massive debt to pay off, the real recovery will be delayed even that much longer since young people will have to pay higher taxes forever, deal with a horrible economy, and purchase goods with a dollar that is worthless.  

Theoretically possibly, in practice, no.  Once the employment rate begins to rise, that is the only recovery most will care about. Paying down the debt is ostensibly a completely separate issue.

[Al Doggity]

We need sustainable long termprivate jobs in manufacturing, production, tech, etc, not govt and health care etc.

I just wanted to come back to this. States dependent on manufacturing and production jobs have been hardest hit.

[BM OUT]

These are the ramblings of a crazy man. Even if you don't believe the stimulus was effective, it has definitively created some jobs. If has definitively saved others.

Nooo... surely, you know better.

Where?Please tell me which PERMANENT jobs it created.Dont give me a fucking summer job that lasated 3 months.Which permanent jobs has the stimulous created.Then please explain how measure a "saved job" Ive NEVER heard that statistic until the little community organiser got in there.

[Soul Crusher]

I just wanted to come back to this. States dependent on manufacturing and production jobs have been hardest hit.

Yeah, because those jobs are off shored and gone.  Education and Health Care are not sustainable since most of those costs rely on tax dollars.  We need private sector jobs that create private sector wealth and capital. 

[BodyProSite]

you know a liberal/commie wont answer a direct question ,  you should expect to hear what their commie leader does, ummm umm uhhh uhh uhh uhh uhh uhh um uhh um mm uhh um um um uhhh  

[Al Doggity]

Yeah, because those jobs are off shored and gone.  Education and Health Care are not sustainable since most of those costs rely on tax dollars.  We need private sector jobs that create private sector wealth and capital. 

No because those jobs are historically the most unstable during a recession. When the housing market tanks, no one is going to start building houses. When people are pinching their pennies, manufactured goods take a hit.

Yes we do need private sector jobs that create private sector wealth. The stimulus money was spread around. A lot was funneled into small businesses. Government projects are overwhelmingly performed by the private sector.

[Soul Crusher]

No because those jobs are historically the most unstable during a recession. When the housing market tanks, no one is going to start building houses. When people are pinching their pennies, manufactured goods take a hit.

Yes we do need private sector jobs that create private sector wealth. The stimulus money was spread around. A lot was funneled into small businesses. Government projects are overwhelmingly performed by the private sector.

Have you paid attention to the UE rate going up up up? 

I'm talking about mfg consumer and commercial goods like appliances, tech, industrial, etc.  We cant have a real economy where tons of people are all in health care, education, and govt.     

[Al Doggity]

No one is advocating that. Stimulus money went to farmers, builders, grocery stores, truckers, small manufacturers, etc.

But once again, the stimulus was not meant to be a building block for the economy. It's purpose was to create a quick stimulation.

[tonymctones]

This article gave multiple reasons- among them the fact that the aid allowed many project to go forward that would have otherwise been cut.

LOL saying it doesnt make it so, perhaps I should have said it doesnt back up one thing it said with facts...just opinions

[Kazan]

LOL saying it doesnt make it so, perhaps I should have said it doesnt back up one thing it said with facts...just opinions

Where have you been? Don't you know opinion is the new fact

[Soul Crusher]

Where have you been? Don't you know opinion is the new fact

[Al Doggity]

LOL saying it doesnt make it so, perhaps I should have said it doesnt back up one thing it said with facts...just opinions

Yes, but the fact that that is what happened does make it so.

333 even posted an article not too long ago about how poor the satistics keeping was for the stimulus money, and even amidst that the authors acknowledged the benefits of the stimulus.

[Soul Crusher]

Yes, but the fact that that is what happened does make it so.

333 even posted an article not too long ago about how poor the satistics keeping was for the stimulus money, and even amidst that the authors acknowledged the benefits of the stimulus.

Al - there may be some temporary benefit.  However, to me at least, the long term debt, lack of infrastructure spending, and lack of real permanent private sector jobs, makes this thing a waste of money in my mind considering the long term ramifications we discussed.

[tonymctones]

Yes, but the fact that that is what happened does make it so.

333 even posted an article not too long ago about how poor the satistics keeping was for the stimulus money, and even amidst that the authors acknowledged the benefits of the stimulus.

LOL bro I dont think anybody can dispute the fact it has created some jobs etc...like the 1.5 million spent to create 3 jobs in dallas. 

as far as saving companies and jobs there is no way of knowing those numbers.

Face it doggity the stimulus hasnt lived up to the hype even if it creates jobs if there is a net loss as in 1.5 mill to create 3 jobs  it wasnt a good move and wasnt worth it...

[Al Doggity]

Al - there may be some temporary benefit.  However, to me at least, the long term debt, lack of infrastructure spending, and lack of real permanent private sector jobs, makes this thing a waste of money in my mind considering the long term ramifications we discussed.

I think you misunderstand the goal of the bill.

Incidentally, there was actually a good deal of infrastructure spending- most of it was in the form of repairs, not new construction. Earlier you asked why the new Tappan Zee couldn't have been built with stiim funds. If the plans for it were finished and ready to go, it would have been eligible.

How do you think the administration should have gone about creating long term permanent jobs in the private sector?

[Al Doggity]

LOL bro I dont think anybody can dispute the fact it has created some jobs etc...like the 1.5 million spent to create 3 jobs in dallas. 

as far as saving companies and jobs there is no way of knowing those numbers.

Face it doggity the stimulus hasnt lived up to the hype even if it creates jobs if there is a net loss as in 1.5 mill to create 3 jobs  it wasnt a good move and wasnt worth it...

The stimulus bill has ALWAYS been touted as a bill that would create jobs AND save them. If the number you are citing is anything like the rest of the numbers that have been popping up, then you are distorting what they actually mean. In most of the cases I've read about, it is not as simple as net loss net gain.