Author Topic: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist  (Read 8100 times)

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Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist Suspected of Masterminding Fallujah Murders
Friday, December 04, 2009
By Fred Lucas, Staff Writer

________________________ ________________________ ______

U.S. troops in Iraq (AP Photo) (CNSNews.com) – The Navy Seals facing court martial for the alleged abuse of a terror suspect arrested for killing four Americans face up to a year in military confinement, discharge for bad conduct, and forfeiture of two-thirds of their pay for a year, if convicted, according to defense attorneys.
 
Further, their attorneys said that the possibilty that they would not be able to cross-examine their clients' accuser would be grounds for dismissing the case.

The accuser, Ahmed Hashim Abed, is the alleged architect of the murder of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004. The bodies of the four Americans were burned and hanged from a bridge for display.

The three Navy Seals--Matthew McCabe, Jonathon Keefe, and Julio Huertas--will be arraigned on Monday in Norfolk, Va. They are facing a special court martial--which is equivalent to a misdemeanor charge--and have each denied the allegations of abuse and cover-up.

The trial date for McCabe, the Seal charged with the alleged assault, is tentatively set for Jan. 19, 2010, McCabe’s attorney Neal Puckett said.
 
Defense attorneys told CNSNews.com that they are waiting to see the evidence from military prosecutors because it is still under review to determine if it is classified. Even the charges, the only court filings in the case thus far, are still under review.

“The government has not handed over anything,” Huertas’ attorney Monica Lombardi told CNSNews.com. “They are now claiming that things are classified, but they are not saying what’s classified and what’s not classified. I filed my discovery request, and they denied it, pending a classification review.

… We have no photographs of the alleged injuries. We have no medical reports of these alleged injuries.”

U.S. troops in Iraq (AP Photo)Keefe’s attorney Greg McCormack will not speak to the media about the case, his receptionist told CNSNews.com.

Attorneys for both McCabe and Huertas said they would insist on cross-examining Abed. The Constitution grants Americans the right to face their accuser at a trial.

“If somebody was trying to claim that you assaulted them, but they refused to come into court, what prosecutor in what state would deny you your right to confrontation of the alleged victim?” Lombardi said.

When CNSNews.com asked what would happen if the military declined to bring Abed to the United States to testify for security reasons, Lombardi said, “It would be, at that point, we could ask the judge to dismiss the charges.”

McCabe, a special operations petty officer, second class, is charged with assaulting the detainee for reportedly punching him in the midsection; with dereliction of duty for failure to safeguard the detainee; and with making a false official statement on the matter.

Though news reports differ on whether it was a punch to the gut or a bloody lip, Puckett says the official charge is a punch to the mid-section.

Huertas, a special operations petty officer, first class, is charged with dereliction of duty, making a false official statement and impeding an investigation.

Keefe, a special operations petty officer, second class, is charged with dereliction of duty and making a false official statement.

Under special court-martial rules, all three defendants would face the same maximum penalty, Puckett said, even though the charges against each one deviate slightly. The maximum penalty for the charges would be one year in military confinement, reduction of two-thirds of their pay for a year and discharge from the military for bad conduct.

Lombardi said Huertas greatly appreciates the public outpouring of support since the reports first surfaced of the arrest.

“My client is extremely grateful for all the support from the American public,” Lombardi said. “He’s a career professional who’s just doing his job. It boosts your morale when you know that you go over there and are doing your job and the American public actually does care about what you’re doing. He’s really humbled by it.”

The military first sought non-judicial punishment, called a “captain’s mast.” It would have spared them any chance of imprisonment but would have severely harmed and possibly ended their military careers, Puckett said.

“There was some pressure on them to accept a lesser form of punishment,” Puckett said. “That would have meant that some commander had predetermined their guilt and would have punished them in a way that would have ended their careers. They weren’t willing to accept that and felt that it would not be a fair hearing.”

They each refused the captain’s mast and opted for a court martial, which is a military trial, to clear their names. The punishment from a court-martial conviction could be greater.

Though it was a better option than accepting guilt, Puckett said, such charges should have never been brought.

“Forget what the punishment would be, even a conviction would be a federal conviction for these guys,” Puckett said. “A federal conviction alone--even before you consider what punishment they get--is grossly disproportionate to the misconduct that’s alleged.

“If we’re talking about the detainee getting punched in the gut by Petty Officer McCabe, given the evil that guy [Abed] is alleged to have wrought on American contractors back in 2004 in Fallujah, it seems that it’s overkill to think that it’s appropriate to send these guys to court martial,” Puckett added.

Puckett suspects this was an overreaction by military brass in regards to detainee abuse.

“The most obvious speculation to me seems to be that the American military and particular Army commanders, and this was an Army commander, are overly sensitive to allegations of detainee abuse in the wake of Abu Ghraib,” Puckett said. “I think they feel a need to overly punish, overly react to these allegations to keep future ones from happening again.”

The alleged punch happened on Sept. 1 when Abed was in captivity.

Abed, after his capture, was held at Camp Baharia, a U.S. base outside of Fallujah. He was briefly handed over to Iraqi authorities and then returned to U.S. custody. Another petty officer, not a Navy Seal, reported the alleged abuse, Lombardi said. It then went up the chain of command, and the commanding general ordered the charges.

Lombardi believes if there was any abuse, it might have happened on the Iraqi side.

“He was turned over to the Iraqi police,” Lombardi said. “He is an Iraqi citizen. Eventually, he’ll go home. Wouldn’t it be a lot better to claim the Americans abused you than the Iraqi police?”

Lombardi said there is a legal defense fund for the Seals, and that she is glad the public can see the Seals were doing the right thing.
 
“They were capturing a terrorist that we’ve been searching for, for five years. They did it in a professional manner,” Lombardi said. “When you think you’re doing everything right and you’ve got somebody saying, ‘no, you did it wrong,’ it’s really nice to know everybody is saying, ‘you did it right. You did us a favor. Why are you being punished?’”

________________________ ________________________ __________________

And you guys wonder why I loathe this govt? 




OzmO

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2009, 12:55:45 PM »
I wouldn't surprised if it happen in any government.  Stupid shit like this goes all the time.  But if Obama had any nuggets he'd put a stop to it.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2009, 12:58:08 PM »
This article is very disturbing.  They defense is not even being given discovery to defend themselves!

O - this is exactly what I loathe the govt.  The brave patriotic SEALS did their jobs and now face prison. 

Obama/Holder/ and the upper brass care more about the terrorists than our soldiers.  Sad but true.   

OzmO

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2009, 01:02:27 PM »
This article is very disturbing.  They defense is not even being given discovery to defend themselves!

O - this is exactly what I loathe the govt.  The brave patriotic SEALS did their jobs and now face prison. 

Obama/Holder/ and the upper brass care more about the terrorists than our soldiers.  Sad but true.   


i understand your frustration because I feel it too.  But its incorrect to conclude that because some people are upholding certain standards differently than you would that they care more about the terrorists than our soldiers.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2009, 01:06:51 PM »

i understand your frustration because I feel it too.  But its incorrect to conclude that because some people are upholding certain standards differently than you would that they care more about the terrorists than our soldiers.

Bro - I just came back from the Federal court House in NYC , 2 blocks from where 9/11 occurred. 

Brian Dennehy, the actor, asked the following:

"If KSM wanted to plead guilty in front of a military tribunal, why are we providing him with the rights reserved for US Citizens and the ability to be set free on a techicality in civial court that he has already confessed to?"

Can you answer that for me?   

OzmO

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2009, 01:14:04 PM »
Ok then answer me this:

"If you are so confident in your western culture based on human rights why can't you apply to anyone like KSM or are you a hypocrite?"

The question Brian Dennehy asked is about as relevant as that one in regards to "concluding" that because some people are upholding certain standards differently than you would that they care more about the terrorists than our soldiers.

You are spinning your own conclusion to yourself when you say they care more about the terrorists.  If they cared more about the terrorist they just let them go.   

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2009, 01:18:33 PM »
Ok then answer me this:

"If you are so confident in your western culture based on human rights why can't you apply to anyone like KSM or are you a hypocrite?"

The question Brian Dennehy asked is about as relevant as that one in regards to "concluding" that because some people are upholding certain standards differently than you would that they care more about the terrorists than our soldiers.

You are spinning your own conclusion to yourself when you say they care more about the terrorists.  If they cared more about the terrorist they just let them go.   

Because Ozmo - KSM was not apprehended with the idea that he would be afforded a civialian trial.  KSM was not read his miranda rights upon apprehension, gave a confesssion for what he will claim is a result of coercive measures, ect.   

As such, the fact that the trial was delayed for so long, the fact that he was tortured, the factt hat discovery will reveal tons of intel, etc will make this thing a complete roll of the dice and a massive harm to the US. 

O - you have no idea what is going to happen here.  I am an attorney and will tell you that this thing is 50/50 at best and this asshole deserves a bullet in his head, not a trial.  He wanted to plead guilty in front of a military tribunal.  Why give him an intl forum to make a mockery of our country and waste what is now estimated to be at least $100 million dollars and the ability to gain intel to pass along to other terrorists?   

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2009, 01:21:48 PM »
Because Ozmo - KSM was not apprehended with the idea that he would be afforded a civialian trial.  KSM was not read his miranda rights upon apprehension, gave a confesssion for what he will claim is a result of coercive measures, ect.   

As such, the fact that the trial was delayed for so long, the fact that he was tortured, the factt hat discovery will reveal tons of intel, etc will make this thing a complete roll of the dice and a massive harm to the US. 

O - you have no idea what is going to happen here.  I am an attorney and will tell you that this thing is 50/50 at best and this asshole deserves a bullet in his head, not a trial.  He wanted to plead guilty in front of a military tribunal.  Why give him an intl forum to make a mockery of our country and waste what is now estimated to be at least $100 million dollars and the ability to gain intel to pass along to other terrorists?   

I'm not trying to argue the KSM trial with you.  We talked about that before.  I agree with some of your points.  My debate with you here is your assumption that they "care" more about terrorists than soldiers.  That's propaganda regurgitated and shows that you are allowing yourself to get programed by the sites and info you are plugged into.

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2009, 01:22:17 PM »
As far as KSM is concerned, he lost his right to claim human status when he started sawing heads off with knife and planned the 9/11 attacks. The biggest mistake made was letting the media know we had this fucker, he should have been interrogated, executed, and dumped in a shallow unmarket grave.
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OzmO

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 01:23:39 PM »
As far as KSM is concerned, he lost his right to claim human status when he started sawing heads off with knife and planned the 9/11 attacks. The biggest mistake made was letting the media know we had this fucker, he should have been interrogated, executed, and dumped in a shallow unmarket grave.


I agree to a certain extent.  

And just think, so many threads on this would have never been born.  

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 01:28:04 PM »

I agree to a certain extent.  

And just think, so many threads on this would have never been born.  

He is an illegal combatant captured in a foreign country, you know what they say when in Rome do as the Romans. Then of course he would have showed up on video getting his mellon removed.
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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2009, 01:29:13 PM »
Bro - I just came back from the Federal court House in NYC , 2 blocks from where 9/11 occurred. 

Brian Dennehy, the actor, asked the following:

"If KSM wanted to plead guilty in front of a military tribunal, why are we providing him with the rights reserved for US Citizens and the ability to be set free on a techicality in civial court that he has already confessed to?"

Can you answer that for me?   

sure - because he wants to be a martyr and thinks that will get him his 72 virgins in heaven.    
If he wants to confess then what's the problem with having this confess in court

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2009, 01:29:53 PM »
I'm not trying to argue the KSM trial with you.  We talked about that before.  I agree with some of your points.  My debate with you here is your assumption that they "care" more about terrorists than soldiers.  That's propaganda regurgitated and shows that you are allowing yourself to get programed by the sites and info you are plugged into.

Who do they care more about then when all they are doing is bending over backwards to accomdate terrorists and prosecute our own soldiers?  

OzmO

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2009, 01:30:21 PM »
He is an illegal combatant captured in a foreign country, you know what they say when in Rome do as the Romans. Then of course he would have showed up on video getting his mellon removed.

It would have been uber f-ing cool if the people doing it were muslims who rejected terrorists solutions.  It would have sent a great message to the rest of the muslim world.

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2009, 01:33:01 PM »
sure - because he wants to be a martyr and thinks that will get him his 72 virgins in heaven.    
If he wants to confess then what's the problem with having this confess in court


Straw - are you a moron or do you just play one here? 

KSM is now being given a PUBLIC stage to wage 911 part 2 on our dime and get the govt to reveal all our intel on this, when he previously asked to plead guilty in a military tribunal. 

This is a complete disaster. 

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2009, 01:36:34 PM »
Who do they care more about then when all they are doing is bending over backwards to accomdate terrorists and prosecute our own soldiers?  

This is "all" they are doing?  If they wanted to bend backwards and accommodate them they would release them.

Dude, can you at least see the depths of how you have allowed your self to buy into the propaganda you read every day?

If you are going to spend this much time and this much energy attacking the Obama Administration at the very minimum can you not lose your objectivity?  You are starting to remind me of John Candy in Peace core.

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2009, 01:42:04 PM »
This is "all" they are doing?  If they wanted to bend backwards and accommodate them they would release them.

Dude, can you at least see the depths of how you have allowed your self to buy into the propaganda you read every day?

If you are going to spend this much time and this much energy attacking the Obama Administration at the very minimum can you not lose your objectivity?  You are starting to remind me of John Candy in Peace core.

Hold on Ozmo.  You dont get it.  Seriously, you dont.  Obama has been under a tremendous amount of pressure from his base to pt Cheney and Bush on trial.  However, he knows he can't do it for obvious reasons.   Whats the next best solution?  Allow KSM to do the dirty work for him. 

The lawyer for some of these bums has already said that they will make this a trial against the CIA and Bush.

They will get to rape the taxpayer of over $100 million dollars. 

They will get to get all of our intel during discovery proceedings.

They will get to file motions to dismiss based upon a variety of issues, etc.

They will get a public stage to promote their filth. 

Etc.

There is absolutely no justification for this shit.  None.  and even Holder admiotted it in the hearings with Graham.     
 

     


  KSM is going to be allowed to 

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2009, 01:48:04 PM »
why the fuck r we taking prisoners anyhow...

shoot to kill...
carpe` vaginum!

Soul Crusher

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2009, 01:49:20 PM »
why the fuck r we taking prisoners anyhow...

shoot to kill...

That is how it should be. 

Instead, our soldiers now have to learn how to give miranda warnings in iraq and afghanistan.  Unreal. 

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2009, 01:49:29 PM »
okay, personally, i would happily smash all these terrorsts' hands with hammers.

HOWEVER...

The minute you say it's A-OKAY for one navy seal to punch one prisoner...

You say it's okay for 1 million soldiers to punch ten million prisoners in the face over the next decade.  Know what i mean?  

i know these guys were pissed, and I probably would have beat the shit out of the bad guys too, we probably all woudl have.  But the govt can't just okay it.  Because you'll have some dickhead on leave from military beating up his girlfriend... then having his ACLU lawyer argue "you let 1 guy get away with assault, so I am allowed to do it..."

If youre gonna kick the shit out of a prisoner, just don't get caught :)

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2009, 01:51:05 PM »
Plus, for everyone assigning this to Obama... this happend 5 years ago and the Bush white house didn't pardon the guy or put an end to the terorist cryingg about it. 

another pile of crap (like the KSM prosecution) that the last admin didn't have the 'minerals' to follow thru on.  hand it to a lib so you can complain when he handles it wrong. 

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2009, 01:51:16 PM »
okay, personally, i would happily smash all these terrorsts' hands with hammers.

HOWEVER...

The minute you say it's A-OKAY for one navy seal to punch one prisoner...

You say it's okay for 1 million soldiers to punch ten million prisoners in the face over the next decade.  Know what i mean?  

i know these guys were pissed, and I probably would have beat the shit out of the bad guys too, we probably all woudl have.  But the govt can't just okay it.  Because you'll have some dickhead on leave from military beating up his girlfriend... then having his ACLU lawyer argue "you let 1 guy get away with assault, so I am allowed to do it..."

If youre gonna kick the shit out of a prisoner, just don't get caught :)

240 - did you read the article?  

The defense counsel is not even being given discovery!  

They are taking the word of the terrorist over the SEALS.  


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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2009, 01:57:43 PM »
My point is that people are using obama's name.  Look, there are a lot of shitty things he's done to attack him for.  but people hating on him becuse he won't make world news and personally pardon a guy accused of beating a cuffed suspect? 

I think the problem is probably below his pay grade.  Of course they should have discovery dude.  But this is shit he inherited, and it's given the attention it deserves to put pressure on DoJ or whatever.  But "obama sucks because he won't pardon the guy", I disagree wit.

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2009, 01:58:36 PM »
Defense attorneys told CNSNews.com that they are waiting to see the evidence from military prosecutors because it is still under review to determine if it is classified. Even the charges, the only court filings in the case thus far, are still under review.

“The government has not handed over anything,” Huertas’ attorney Monica Lombardi told CNSNews.com. “They are now claiming that things are classified, but they are not saying what’s classified and what’s not classified. I filed my discovery request, and they denied it, pending a classification review.

… We have no photographs of the alleged injuries. We have no medical reports of these alleged injuries.”

________________________ ________________________ __________________

Can anyone justify this? 

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Re: Navy Seals Could Face Year in Prison Over Alleged Punching of Terrorist
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2009, 02:00:42 PM »
My point is that people are using obama's name.  Look, there are a lot of shitty things he's done to attack him for.  but people hating on him becuse he won't make world news and personally pardon a guy accused of beating a cuffed suspect? 

I think the problem is probably below his pay grade.  Of course they should have discovery dude.  But this is shit he inherited, and it's given the attention it deserves to put pressure on DoJ or whatever.  But "obama sucks because he won't pardon the guy", I disagree wit.

I thought Bush sucked royally for what he put the border patrol agents through.