Author Topic: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize  (Read 824 times)

loco

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Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« on: December 10, 2009, 08:00:28 AM »
Change you can believe in!     ::)

Dec. 10, 2009

OSLO – President Barack Obama entered the pantheon of Nobel Peace Prize winners Thursday with humble words, acknowledging his own few accomplishments while delivering a robust defense of war and promising to use the prestigious award to "reach for the world that ought to be."

A wartime president honored for peace, Obama became the first sitting U.S. president in 90 years and the third ever to win the prize — some say prematurely. In this damp, chilly Nordic capital to pick it up, he and his wife, Michelle, whirled through a day filled with Nobel pomp and ceremony.

And yet Obama was staying here only about 24 hours and skipping the traditional second day of festivities. This miffed some in Norway but reflects a White House that sees little value in extra pictures of the president, his poll numbers dropping at home, taking an overseas victory lap while thousands of U.S. troops prepare to go off to war and millions of Americans remain jobless.

Just nine days after ordering 30,000 more U.S. troops into battle in Afghanistan, Obama delivered a Nobel acceptance speech that he saw as a treatise on war's use and prevention. He crafted much of the address himself and the scholarly remarks — at about 4,000 words — were nearly twice as long as his inaugural address.

In them, Obama refused to renounce war for his nation or under his leadership, saying defiantly that "I face the world as it is" and that he is obliged to protect and defend the United States.

"A nonviolent movement could not have halted Hitler's armies. Negotiations cannot convince al-Qaida's leaders to lay down their arms," Obama said. "To say that force is sometimes necessary is not a call to cynicism, it is a recognition of history."

The president laid out the circumstances where war is justified — in self-defense, to come to the aid of an invaded nation and on humanitarian grounds, such as when civilians are slaughtered by their own government or a civil war threatens to engulf an entire region.

"The belief that peace is desirable is rarely enough to achieve it," he said.

He also spoke bluntly of the cost of war, saying of the Afghanistan buildup he just ordered that "some will kill, some will be killed."

"No matter how justified, war promises human tragedy," he said.

But he also stressed the need to fight war according to "rules of conduct" that reject torture and other methods. And he emphasized the need to exhaust alternatives to violence, using diplomatic outreach and sanctions with teeth to confront nations such as Iran or North Korea that defy international demands to halt their nuclear programs or those such as Sudan, Congo or Burma that brutalize their citizens.

"Let us reach for the world that ought to be," Obama said. "We can understand that there will be war, and still strive for peace."

In awarding the prize to Obama, the Nobel panel cited his call for a world free of nuclear weapons, for a more engaged U.S. role in combating global warming, for his support of the United Nations and multilateral diplomacy and for broadly capturing the attention of the world and giving its people "hope."

But the Nobel committee made its announcement in October when he wasn't even nine months on the job, recognizing his aspirations more than his achievements.

Echoing the surprise that seemed the most common reaction to his win, Obama started his 36-minute speech by saying that others who have done more and suffered more may better deserve the honor.

"I am at the beginning, and not the end, of my labors on the world stage," the president said. "Compared to some of the giants of history who have received this prize ... my accomplishments are slight."

The list of Nobel peace laureates over the last 100 years includes transformative figures and giants of the world stage. They include heroes of the president, such as the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., Nelson Mandela and others he has long admired, like George Marshall, who launched a postwar recovery plan for Europe.

Earlier, Obama had said that the criticism might recede if he advances some of his goals. But, he added, proving doubters wrong is "not really my concern."

"If I'm not successful, then all the praise in the world won't disguise that fact," he said.

The timing of the award ceremonies, coming so soon after Obama's Afghanistan announcement, lent inspiration to peace activists.

The president's motorcade arrived at Oslo's high-rise government complex for Obama's meeting with Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg as a few dozen anti-war protesters gathered behind wire fences nearby. Dressed in black hoods and waving banners, the demonstrators banged drums and chanted anti-war slogans. "The Afghan people are paying the price," some shouted.

Greenpeace and anti-war activists planned larger demonstrations later that were expected to draw several thousand people. Protesters have plastered posters around the city, featuring an Obama campaign poster altered with skepticism to say, "Change?"

The debate at home over his Afghanistan decision also followed the president here. He told reporters that that the July 2011 date he set for the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan to begin will not slip — but that the pace of the full drawdown will be gradual and conditions-based.

"We're not going to see some sharp cliff, some precipitous drawdown," Obama said.

Obama's first stop in Oslo was the Norwegian Nobel Institute, where the Nobel committee meets to make its decisions. After signing the guest book, Obama told reporters he had penned thanks to the committee and noted the pictures of former winners filling the wall, many of whom gave "voice to the voiceless."

In the evening, Obama is expected to wave to a torchlight procession from his hotel balcony and stroll with Norwegian royalty to a dinner banquet. He will offer comments a second time there and cap his brisk jaunt to Europe.

The president and his wife, Michelle, arrived here in the morning, coming off Air Force One holding hands and smiling. Having left Washington Wednesday night, Obama was due back by midday Friday.

The Nobel honor comes with a $1.4 million prize. The White House says Obama will give that to charities but has not yet decided which ones.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091210/ap_on_re_eu/eu_obama_nobel/print

kcballer

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 08:37:52 AM »
Good the Afghan war is just and if people don't see that then fu*k em.
Abandon every hope...

loco

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 08:41:09 AM »
I know, that's what Bush and Chaney said.     :)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2009, 08:47:18 AM »
I know, that's what Bush and Chaney said.     :)


kcballer

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2009, 08:49:12 AM »
I know, that's what Bush and Chaney said.     :)

It's what many presidents have said. 
Abandon every hope...

OzmO

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2009, 09:42:17 AM »
It is ironic, but it isn't a war he started and it looks like it isn't a war that is likely to end soon.

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2009, 09:43:12 AM »
It is ironic, but it isn't a war he started and it looks like it isn't a war that is likely to end soon.

iTS HIS NOW. 

No more blaming Bush.  He escalated this thing immensly since coming into office. 

OzmO

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2009, 09:53:37 AM »
iTS HIS NOW. 

No more blaming Bush.  He escalated this thing immensly since coming into office. 

Not really "blaming" Bush here.  Just making the distinction that he didn't start the war and had been going on for 7 some years since he took over.

Hedgehog

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2009, 01:46:46 PM »
iTS HIS NOW. 

No more blaming Bush.  He escalated this thing immensly since coming into office. 
you think Obama should've ordered an instant retreat? I'm kind of leaning towards that myself as well.

perhaps just stayed with a few special units trying to hunt bin ladin down.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2009, 01:49:19 PM »
you think Obama should've ordered an instant retreat? I'm kind of leaning towards that myself as well.

perhaps just stayed with a few special units trying to hunt bin ladin down.

No, we could leave a few Covert OPS, special unitas like you said to just hunt down Al Queada members. 

Iraq is not the same as Afghanistan. 

OzmO

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2009, 01:54:28 PM »
Covert OPS?   I think they are more concerned about losing the whole dam country.

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2009, 02:47:12 PM »
msnbc had a big piece last night on maddow - turns out the taleban is paying the afghans MORE $ than america is.  So many of their troops are jumping sides, or just joining the taleban.

they said there is a complete shadow taleban govt running shit once the sun sets every night - governors, judges, etc - a shadow govt in place to take over once we leave.

I dont know if that hurts or helps obama.  The bad guys have the infrastructure in place - once we leave, they kill all the guys running the place, and they're ready to run the place.

kcballer

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2009, 03:05:34 PM »
msnbc had a big piece last night on maddow - turns out the taleban is paying the afghans MORE $ than america is.  So many of their troops are jumping sides, or just joining the taleban.

they said there is a complete shadow taleban govt running shit once the sun sets every night - governors, judges, etc - a shadow govt in place to take over once we leave.

I dont know if that hurts or helps obama.  The bad guys have the infrastructure in place - once we leave, they kill all the guys running the place, and they're ready to run the place.

Well if there is any truth to this it will be devastating for Afghanistan.  Money is once again the issue.  Here's to hoping by 2011 we can help Afghanistan get some sort of loan to build some sort of infrastructure rather than let the taliban buy their way back. 
Abandon every hope...

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2009, 03:25:43 PM »
I think it was either washpost or NYtime being discussed - it was credible.  Maddow (and beck as well) often get these stories a week before hardball and fox news will touch them.

I was annoyed that US tax $ are being paid to these warlords :(

Skip8282

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2009, 03:29:26 PM »
iTS HIS NOW.  

No more blaming Bush.  He escalated this thing immensly since coming into office.  


Afghanistan is our war.  Be it Republican, Democrat, Independent, or other, the threat we face from Afghanistan affects all Americans equally.

And it's not a black or white situation.  We pulled out before and left them to their own with disastrous consequences.  We tried small special ops teams early on.  At this point, it's questionable if Bin Laden is even still alive much less running the show.

And now, our strategy appears to be shifting to winning the hearts and minds of the inhabitants combined with a military surge against AQ.

The point is, Afghanistan is a gray area, with all possible solutions leading to all possible outcomes.  We just don't know.  The most Obama and our top military officials can do is try their best, adapt as quickly as possible to changes, and hope that we can minimize the threat of terrorists using Afghanistan as a safe haven.

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2009, 07:51:37 AM »
Can't wait to hear Obama's Heisman Trophy speech  ;D
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kcballer

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2009, 09:43:58 AM »
I think it was either washpost or NYtime being discussed - it was credible.  Maddow (and beck as well) often get these stories a week before hardball and fox news will touch them.

I was annoyed that US tax $ are being paid to these warlords :(

Unfortunately war lords run most of Afghanistan.   As long as they stay on our side it's part of doing business so to speak.  If they support the taliban bomb them out of the country. 
Abandon every hope...

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2009, 12:25:28 PM »
You know what.

The paradox is that Obama is actually losing popularity around the world for his speech in Oslo.

But my impression from watching my "fave" TV network Faux News and CNN, along with reading this trusty board, is that he's actually winning over some of his fellow Americans.

Just an observation.

Also talked with a man from Tanzania today.

Very educating experience.

I have to admit that many of my own conclusions about Africa are probably somewhat wrong.

One thing this man mentioned to me was how he believes that Obama is just another puppet for the political structure. The military industry, the Halliburtons, the Blackwaters, et al.

Of course, this bloke doesn't know all the answers.

But it was kind of refreshing to get another point of view.

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rockyfortune

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Re: Obama defends US wars as he accepts peace prize
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2009, 12:29:18 PM »
You know what.

The paradox is that Obama is actually losing popularity around the world for his speech in Oslo.

But my impression from watching my "fave" TV network Faux News and CNN, along with reading this trusty board, is that he's actually winning over some of his fellow Americans.

Just an observation.

Also talked with a man from Tanzania today.

Very educating experience.

I have to admit that many of my own conclusions about Africa are probably somewhat wrong.

One thing this man mentioned to me was how he believes that Obama is just another puppet for the political structure. The military industry, the Halliburtons, the Blackwaters, et al.

Of course, this bloke doesn't know all the answers.

But it was kind of refreshing to get another point of view.




people from tanzania aren't the only ones who believe this....
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