2010 Team Universe

[Saxon]

you have used pro hormones ..thus you are not a natural athlete and never will be. end of story. so its hypocritcal to be using a nickname such as drugfree4life, which you arent.

Exactly!

[Mars]

that depends, i did one cycle but i still consider myself natural since i lost all 30 pounds of it.

[LatsMcGee]

Team Universe competitors are about as Natural as an American Gladiator circa 91. 

[Van_Bilderass]

Van, Androgel, that is a presciption is not considered Natural, neither is Anavar.
I am going to make this short and to the point.A Hundai and a Ferrari are both cars, they both drive you were you want to go.The difference is how fast you will get there.Pro-Hormones, naturally raise testosterone, Steroids, are testosterone,.
I don't care what these companies say, unless they are "spiking " there prohormones with steroids, pro hormones aren't even 5% as effective as steroids.Just like the Hundai, and the Ferrari, comparison.Both are cars, but one is so much more powerful then the other.
Prohormones will raise testosterone for a short period of time, but steroids, take your testosterone to beyond levels that are normal.
The bottom line is this most Pro- Hormones are just DHEA, Tribulus, or Longfolia with a fancy name attached to it.
There are some strong Pro -hormones out there like 4chloro-17a-Methyl-Androst-1,4diene-3,17-diol,....... Estra-4 9-Diene -3 17 Dione,....... or 13-ethyl-3methoxy-gona-2 5(10)-diene-17-one, which are strong, but aren't nearly as effective as Testosterone or Trenbalone.
These prohormones will give you good Gaines, but like I said before they are limited.
Plus 80% of Americans PH is off, so half the time the capsule they are taking doesn't fully absorb in the body.
Americans have very poor PH and lack of Digestive enzymes, thats why they are fat and bloated, at 30 years old.

Tim your right, even large amounts of Caffiene and stimulants can enhance performance......But there is a diffrence between enhancing something, compared to taking it to unsurpassed levels.Steroids, take the body to unsurpassed levels.....Supplements just enhance performance.

nolotil,,,,,, I mean tool.....First of all Androstene is not a steroid.If you look at the molecular structure its closer to DHEA then its is to testosterone.So people who take DHEA druggies to?
Plus oral Androstene, actually shut down more guys then it helped.I was one of them.I took, 50 mg, it made me weaker, then I went to 100mg, and even 200mg, and all it did was shut me down.
Its was the Original Androstene in the white bottle.
Now in the 1970's they did use injectable Androstene, and a nasal spray Androstene, which I would question those being considered natural.Even though Androstene will never ever be as strong as testosterone.
To call a person who did Andostene a drug user is like calling a person who only drinks a glass of wine for dinner for health reason an alcoholic.Its stupid, and uncalled for.
Androstene at best is not even 5% as strong a testosterone, trust this I know
Androstene was over rated, and should have never been banned.
Believe it or not, I think Dhea, is just as effective in my opinion.
Plus, I hate to pop your bubble, but 80-90% of the Androstene products out there were DHEA, being called Androstene.The reason for this is, Andostene was expensive, and hard to get.
I found this out because I was wondering how some companies were sellling there Androstene  cheaper to stores then I could make the product.How could this happen???
It wasn't Andostene, it was DHEA.......Why do you think there is now a GMP manufacturing facilities now popping up? Because people are tired of buy Androstene and getting DHEA, They are tired of buying Creatine Ethyl Ester, and just getting Creatine monohydrate.So now companies like myself, make our products in GMP approved plants so we can make sure the customer gets what they pay for.

Could you lend me some IQ points cause none of this makes sense to me.  

Would you say Proviron isn't an anabolic steroid since it never put muscle on anyone? Since it's so weak maybe it should be called a prohormone?

Halotestin doesn't make you gain much muscle. Natural?

Care to explain how route of administration changes a hormone from being natural to unnatural? Androstenedione nasal spray was used in the DDR like you mention.

How strong should a hormone be until it's called a steroid? How much should it make you gain? 1lb? 5lbs? 15lbs?

How come androstenedione is banned by most natural bodybuilding organizations? Such as WNBF and INBF where drugfree4life competes. I mean a renowned expert such as yourself says it's completely natural. What gives?   These morons even ban DHEA... wtf, you should call them up and tell them these hormones are completely natural! Because they're too weak to be called steroid hormones!

you have used pro hormones ..thus you are not a natural athlete and never will be. end of story. so its hypocritcal to be using a nickname such as drugfree4life, which you arent.

Even the orgs where he competes would take issue with his username. He admits to having used drugs which are now on their banned list.

[Krankenstein]

Exactly!

you have used pro hormones ..thus you are not a natural athlete and never will be. end of story. so its hypocritcal to be using a nickname such as drugfree4life, which you arent.

I guess even if I hadnt used those, because I had to use vicodin after having my wisdom teeth out, valium prior to my lasik surgery, flexeril after an auto accident, and even the prescription motrin after my pec tear....I couldnt be considered drugfree.  Oh, and if you ever used those things....as well as advil, excedrine, tylenol, etc...you wouldnt be drug free either.  Those are over the counter drugs.

To call a person who did Andostene a drug user is like calling a person who only drinks a glass of wine for dinner for health reason an alcoholic.

Exactly

they're not druggies.  that implies someone who has a drug problem.  a person who takes DHEA is simply a drug user.  And if they belong to an organization that follows the World Anti-Doping regulations, they are in violation of their orgs rules.

again, an alcoholic is someone who has an alcohol problem.  a person who drinks a glass of wine is simply an alcohol user.

a bodybuilder who has used prohormones, even DHEA, is simply not a drug free bodybuilder.

So whats the ACCEPTED definition of a druggie?  In addition, a person who has used creatine is not natural.  You are adding an exogenous substance to the body to elicit an effect above what happens already in the body.  That is sooooo nit-picking its not even funny.

Even the orgs where he competes would take issue with his username. He admits to having used drugs which are now on their banned list.

Actually no.  When I asked if certain things were banned or not, he was sent it from my Drugfree email addy.  Even when I talked to him at a pro show I used the name as a reference to an earlier communication between he and I.  Again, he didnt scream "Get out of my show you filthy drug using scum".  

I lifted for 12 - 13 years PRIOR to my Andro usage in 97.  Then the bottle was what..30 capsules?  It didnt do SHIT.  LIfted another year or so until my Nor-19 usage (again, 30 capsules) in '98.  Total waste of money and whatever else on both of those things.  All it got me was realizing what I could have spent the money on and me having to remember when I took them so every time I get get drugtested at a show I have to tell them about it.  I havent touched a pro-hormone since, nor will I.  I even stopped the ephedrine usage PRIOR to the ban by WNBF or INBF due to my own personal resons.  I guess by your accounts, the fact I used ephedrine back then...PRIOR to being banned I am not natural/drug free/etc.  

Think what you will.  I have 24+ yrs of lifting behind me.  If 60 total capsules (amounting to 3 - 4 weeks TOTAL) is going to skew what I have done.  So be it.  Notoli, MAXX, Saxon....I wont go the route of asking if you have done shows or how far you have gotten.  It doesnt matter.  I am proud of what I have done.  I dont hide or deny those two bottle.  Never have.  But the fact is that I did 3 - 4 shows prior to them (won my weight class in all but one), then I turned pro without them...and will continue to compete without them.

[timfogarty]

That is sooooo nit-picking its not even funny.

simply change your name to DrugFree4Now, or CurrentlyDrugFree, or DrugFreeSince1997 and all will be happy with the world

[GetItOnNY]

Van, that was one of your better posts....But you said Halotest does give you that many Gaines are your crazy?? Have you ever used Halotest? Halotest, like Anadrol 50 will make you as strong as a bull, and mean as a caged animal.Trust me on Halotest 2 weeks out from the Mr USA, I was benching 405 lbs for 15 reps when I was on Halo.To make matters worse it made me meaner then a drunken Irishman, lol.
A Asshole almost ran my son and I over in the crosswalk, then flipped me off...needless to say, I had him by his throat getting ready to drag him out of his car to apologise...
Now Proviron may be mild, but its still alot more effective then Androstene.
The bottom line was Androstene was overrated, and 90% of it wasn't even real.If you guys prohormones aren't considered natural then you shouldn't consider Kre-alklayn natural either, Because I gained more weight then that then I ever did from Andro stene or any prohormone.
I cant believe we are even arguing over this.With Pro Hormones your Lucky to gain 5-10 max if your lucky, anabolics you gain 20-30 lbs no problem.This I know, IF I was to hop on a cycle right now my weight would jump to 280lbs, maybe even 290lbs.With prohormones I might get up to 255lbs
Prohormones, natural, steroids, not natural!!!!

[GetItOnNY]

Why we don't ban Regine as well?? Because everytime I use it I gain 5lbs.lol
True story my friend was balding and he doesn't work out or anything, he is just a husky guy.Well be bought Rogaine to help him regain his hair, and within 2 weeks he put on 15lbs of body weight.He was like WTF.......I told him to stop using the Rogaine and see what happens.....Within 5-6 days of not using Rogaine he lost 12 of the 15lbs he gained.
Rogaine is known to cause weight and sold over the counter, so should that be banned to.
We will not call it Rogaine drol, lol...

[WingedLion]

you are one of the biggest liar and bullshitters to ever join this site getit on

you use used and will use hormones steroids and prohormones and such cause withouthem you'd be a big nothing

now you have the audacity to come here and say you gonna do a show clean ...get the fuck out of here you liar supplement seller

[Krankenstein]

simply change your name to DrugFree4Now, or CurrentlyDrugFree, or DrugFreeSince1997 and all will be happy with the world

Yes, because my life is based on what TimFogarty thinks of me. 

[WingedLion]

Yes, because my life is based on what TimFogarty thinks of me. 

you are another bullshitter cum drug free

go get a job selling for getitonnewjersey

[timfogarty]

Yes, because my life is based on what TimFogarty thinks of me. 

I'm a life time drug free bodybuilder.

No, you've used these drugs for performance enhancing purposes.

Those don't count.

Yes they do.

Stop picking on me.

[Krankenstein]

Stop picking on me.

Ok, I will.....will you stop crying if I do?

[Krankenstein]

you are another bullshitter cum drug free

go get a job selling for getitonnewjersey

Wow...issues.  Bullshitter cum drug free?  Rolls off the tongue like your boyfriends cock last night.



Fly far, far away Winged one....errr

[MCWAY]

that depends, i did one cycle but i still consider myself natural since i lost all 30 pounds of it.

And therein lies the rub!! It appears all the griping about "natural" competitors stems around how long a former steroid user has to be off anabolics, before he's considered "natural".

On average, most federations require three years drug-free. The WNBF seems to be the strictest, with 7 years drug-free requirement. You can't even have used DHEA (nowadays, you can get that at Wal-Mart for under $5).

Rather than debate about it when folks ask me, I simply say that anything I use, other than food, can be purchased at either a grocery store or sports nutrition store legally in the USA.

[nolotil]

if you have used steroids you will get benefits even after you stopped using compared to someone who never used. thats why its a bit messed up that for example sprinters are allowed back after a 2 year suspension as they will still have an advantage even if they are now clean.

[Krankenstein]

if you have used steroids you will get benefits even after you stopped using compared to someone who never used. thats why its a bit messed up that for example sprinters are allowed back after a 2 year suspension as they will still have an advantage even if they are now clean.

So, tell me...just how much advantage do you think I got from those two bottles...8 - 9 years later?

[nolotil]

So, tell me...just how much advantage do you think I got from those two bottles...8 - 9 years later?

no idea, but still your nickname is misleading as your not drugfree4life. i dont say this to piss on the hard work you surely have put in. but per definition your simply not natural nor drugfree4life. clean, yes.

[WillGrant]

Andro gave me erect nipples

[GetItOnNY]

Curt,Is Drugfree for life, and on top of it he is a Dr......
Anybody who thinks that taking Androstene or DHEA makes you not natural is a fool.
If it is sold over the counter, and isn't banned, it should be considered natural..
Androstene if and thats a big "IF" because 80-90% of the Androstene out there was either DHEA or just Rice flour in a capsule.The reason for this is because 1) it was very very expensive per kilo to buy 2) There was a very strong patent on Androstene.
So either you couldn't get it, or they just wouldn't sell it to you.
When Androstene first came out there was only 2 companies making it, and it remained that way for about a year.The First brand was the White bottle, we all know made that and the other company was ASN out of Hood River, Oregon.The owner Jim Cole, was one of the people who helped Phil Hernon gets so huge and ripped.
Anyways......Androsten, if it was real doesn't have a long half life in the body.In some cases ,it actually shut alot of guys down, including myself.It actually hindered my testosterone production and made me weaker, and tired.So Androsten was a hit or miss.
Nobody has ever gained more then 5-7 lbs on Androstene, if they said they did they are a liar or the product they were using was "spiked".
Androstene was so overrated,!! To be hone3st with you the Original Phosphagen Creatine when it was made in America, was More effective then Androstene was.
American Creatine worked like nothing else.Because it was manufactured properly
Kre-Alklayn I feel is the new form of Phosphagen  only better, because the PH is corrected.
Chinese creatine monohydrate is garbage.It contains lead and arsenic, and it isn't dried for 2-3 hours like the American creatine used to be.They dry it fast at higher temperatures, to mass produce it.This inturn takes away from its potency.Creatine is only made up of 2 amino acids, so to much heat, and it will damage the potency of these delicate amino acids.
Plus the Chinese spray 10-15% moisture into the product they made to add weight to the product.So your buying moisture not product.But what do you expect for $4.50 per kilo.
The bottom line is this.ANTHING NOT BANNED BY THE FDA, AND IS SOLD OVER THE COUNTER LEGALLY IS CONSIDERED NATURAL.Its plain and simple.If you guys think for 1 second that Andostene or any other over the counter hormone is even 5% as effective as real steroids your a fool.
What are you guys going to say next? Drugfree4life isnt natural because he eats red meat and chicken that injected with hormones, so he is a druggie for eating meat, lol."
The bible says "Dont point a speck of dust in your neighbors eye when you have a plank in your own"
You guys might want to read that pasage.People who live in glass houses, shouldnt throw rocks, lol

[GetItOnNY]

Adam Ant had a song goodie two shoes in the 1980's, One verse was dont drink dont smoke,what do you do? .
This guy should have a song called "does drink does smoke, and takes it in the butt, lol"

[Krankenstein]

Curt,Is Drugfree for life, and on top of it he is a Dr......
Anybody who thinks that taking Androstene or DHEA makes you not natural is a fool.
If it is sold over the counter, and isn't banned, it should be considered natural..
Androstene if and thats a big "IF" because 80-90% of the Androstene out there was either DHEA or just Rice flour in a capsule.The reason for this is because 1) it was very very expensive per kilo to buy 2) There was a very strong patent on Androstene.
So either you couldn't get it, or they just wouldn't sell it to you.
When Androstene first came out there was only 2 companies making it, and it remained that way for about a year.The First brand was the White bottle, we all know made that and the other company was ASN out of Hood River, Oregon.The owner Jim Cole, was one of the people who helped Phil Hernon gets so huge and ripped.
Anyways......Androsten, if it was real doesn't have a long half life in the body.In some cases ,it actually shut alot of guys down, including myself.It actually hindered my testosterone production and made me weaker, and tired.So Androsten was a hit or miss.
Nobody has ever gained more then 5-7 lbs on Androstene, if they said they did they are a liar or the product they were using was "spiked".
Androstene was so overrated,!! To be hone3st with you the Original Phosphagen Creatine when it was made in America, was More effective then Androstene was.
American Creatine worked like nothing else.Because it was manufactured properly
Kre-Alklayn I feel is the new form of Phosphagen  only better, because the PH is corrected.
Chinese creatine monohydrate is garbage.It contains lead and arsenic, and it isn't dried for 2-3 hours like the American creatine used to be.They dry it fast at higher temperatures, to mass produce it.This inturn takes away from its potency.Creatine is only made up of 2 amino acids, so to much heat, and it will damage the potency of these delicate amino acids.
Plus the Chinese spray 10-15% moisture into the product they made to add weight to the product.So your buying moisture not product.But what do you expect for $4.50 per kilo.
The bottom line is this.ANTHING NOT BANNED BY THE FDA, AND IS SOLD OVER THE COUNTER LEGALLY IS CONSIDERED NATURAL.Its plain and simple.If you guys think for 1 second that Andostene or any other over the counter hormone is even 5% as effective your a fool.

Seriously John, I wouldnt worry about it anymore.  

[Ex Coelis]

Tim Fogarty is the authority on these matters

I don't get why people argue with him...

[Krankenstein]

Tim Fogarty is the authority on these matters

I don't get why people argue with him...

Because we can.

[WillGrant]

Curt,Is Drugfree for life, and on top of it he is a Dr......
Anybody who thinks that taking Androstene or DHEA makes you not natural is a fool.
If it is sold over the counter, and isn't banned, it should be considered natural..
Androstene if and thats a big "IF" because 80-90% of the Androstene out there was either DHEA or just Rice flour in a capsule.The reason for this is because 1) it was very very expensive per kilo to buy 2) There was a very strong patent on Androstene.
So either you couldn't get it, or they just wouldn't sell it to you.
When Androstene first came out there was only 2 companies making it, and it remained that way for about a year.The First brand was the White bottle, we all know made that and the other company was ASN out of Hood River, Oregon.The owner Jim Cole, was one of the people who helped Phil Hernon gets so huge and ripped.
Anyways......Androsten, if it was real doesn't have a long half life in the body.In some cases ,it actually shut alot of guys down, including myself.It actually hindered my testosterone production and made me weaker, and tired.So Androsten was a hit or miss.
Nobody has ever gained more then 5-7 lbs on Androstene, if they said they did they are a liar or the product they were using was "spiked".
Androstene was so overrated,!! To be hone3st with you the Original Phosphagen Creatine when it was made in America, was More effective then Androstene was.
American Creatine worked like nothing else.Because it was manufactured properly
Kre-Alklayn I feel is the new form of Phosphagen  only better, because the PH is corrected.
Chinese creatine monohydrate is garbage.It contains lead and arsenic, and it isn't dried for 2-3 hours like the American creatine used to be.They dry it fast at higher temperatures, to mass produce it.This inturn takes away from its potency.Creatine is only made up of 2 amino acids, so to much heat, and it will damage the potency of these delicate amino acids.
Plus the Chinese spray 10-15% moisture into the product they made to add weight to the product.So your buying moisture not product.But what do you expect for $4.50 per kilo.
The bottom line is this.ANTHING NOT BANNED BY THE FDA, AND IS SOLD OVER THE COUNTER LEGALLY IS CONSIDERED NATURAL.Its plain and simple.If you guys think for 1 second that Andostene or any other over the counter hormone is even 5% as effective as real steroids your a fool.
What are you guys going to say next? Drugfree4life isnt natural because he eats red meat and chicken that injected with hormones, so he is a druggie for eating meat, lol."
The bible says "Dont point a speck of dust in your neighbors eye when you have a plank in your own"
You guys might want to read that pasage.People who live in glass houses, shouldnt throw rocks, lol

Cliff notes please