Copenhagen Talks SUSPENDED, In Chaos, As Countries Walk Out.

[Soul Crusher]

Copenhagen Climate Talks SUSPENDED, In Chaos, As Countries Walk Out Of The Conference (BREAKING)
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The Australian news site, News.com.au reports more on the walkout:

The G77, a group which represents 130 developing countries, walked out because it is concerned the existing Kyoto protocol will be abandoned.

Australia's Climate Change Minister Penny Wong confirmed that organisers were trying to fix the problem and coax back the developing world.

Many countries at the UN climate summit want a brand new treaty to tackle climate change, but the developing world wants the Kyoto protocol to continue as well.

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The UN international climate change conference in chaos as the G77, which represents 130 developing countries "pulled the emergency plug" suspending the talks over wealthy countries' reluctance to discuss a legally binding emissions treaty.

Jeremy Hobbs, Executive Director of Oxfam put out this statement:

Africa has pulled the emergency cord to avoid a train crash at the end of the week. Poor countries want to see an outcome which guarantees sharp emissions reductions yet rich countries are trying to delay discussions on the only mechanism we have to deliver this - the Kyoto Protocol.

This not about blocking the talks - it is about whether rich countries are ready to guarantee action on climate change and the survival or people in Africa and across the world.

"Australia and Japan are crying foul while blocking movement on legally binding emissions reductions for rich countries. This tit for tat approach is no way to deal with the climate crisis."

African countries have refused to continue negotiations unless talks on a second commitment period to the Kyoto Protocol are prioritized ahead of broader discussions under a second LCA track.

Australia, Japan and others have succeeded in stopping Kyoto Protocol discussions as a result. Of the two tracks of negotiations underway in Copenhagen the Kyoto Protocol is the only one which includes a mechanism for legally binding emissions reductions by rich countries.

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This whole thing is nothing more than a shakedown of the US taxpayer. 

This will likely results in another failure for Obama just like the Olympics did.

[240 is Back]

of course this thing is a justified failure.

but bush started the chicago olympics push, and al 4 top contender nations sent their presidents out to ask for it.  making this about obama/olympics distracts us from what is a victory for the common man with this POS falling apart (copenhagen)

[Soul Crusher]

of course this thing is a justified failure.

but bush started the chicago olympics push, and al 4 top contender nations sent their presidents out to ask for it.  making this about obama/olympics distracts us from what is a victory for the common man with this POS falling apart (copenhagen)

He is going there to argue for this green-hell. 

240 - do you think Metallica was prophetic? 

[BM OUT]

Man made global warming is a hoax!!!

[OzmO]

I'm sure this has been asked before but are there statements by respected scientists not associated with politics or relating business that comment objectively on Global Warming pro or cons?

[Soul Crusher]

I'm sure this has been asked before but are there statements by respected scientists not associated with politics or relating business that comment objectively on Global Warming pro or cons?

That's the problem ozmo. 

The issue has been so politicized by both sides now that nothing coming out is really objective since climate "science" is not really science at all. 

Science is supposed to be provable, duplicative, and able to be replicated by anyone. 

So far, whatt he pro-warming crown has put forth is anything but.   

[OzmO]

That's the problem ozmo. 

The issue has been so politicized by both sides now that nothing coming out is really objective since climate "science" is not really science at all. 

Science is supposed to be provable, duplicative, and able to be replicated by anyone. 

So far, whatt he pro-warming crown has put forth is anything but.   

You just mirrored exactly was i asked not to.  If what you say is true (and not slanted) then there should be many statements by scientist that show in a provable scientific way, that its all crap.

Most of what I've ever read opposed to GW is mostly political rhetoric.

[Soul Crusher]

You just mirrored exactly was i asked not to.  If what you say is true (and not slanted) then there should be many statements by scientist that show in a provable scientific way, that its all crap.

Most of what I've ever read opposed to GW is mostly political rhetoric.

Then why are the pro-GW crowd denying FOIL requests?  Dumped the raw data?  and otherwise not putting forth a real formula based on raw data than anyone can replicate?   

[OzmO]

Then why are the pro-GW crowd denying FOIL requests?  Dumped the raw data?  and otherwise not putting forth a real formula based on raw data than anyone can replicate?   

There isn't any independent study of GW?

[Al Doggity]

You just mirrored exactly was i asked not to.  If what you say is true (and not slanted) then there should be many statements by scientist that show in a provable scientific way, that its all crap.

Most of what I've ever read opposed to GW is mostly political rhetoric.

The thing is that  the Climategate emails mostly dealt abberations in scientific explanations- the type that exist in all sciences. When you look at the North Pole and things like the increasing acidity of the ocean, etc, there is pretty much no doubt that global warming exists, but then you look at something like Chicago having one of the coolest summers on record, scientists in the field have to find a way to explain it.

[Al Doggity]

Then why are the pro-GW crowd denying FOIL requests?  Dumped the raw data?  and otherwise not putting forth a real formula based on raw data than anyone can replicate?   

There was a story a few days ago analyzing ALL of the emails...

It's ironic that you have been defending Palin's legal frustrations so vigorously in Hugo's thread, because the AP concluded that one of the most talked about emails was actually in reference to frivolous foia requests. 

[kcballer]

There isn't any independent study of GW?

Exactly.  If climate change is such a hoax why aren't there more studies showing it.  There is plenty of money in the oil industry to fund these studies.  There are plenty of scientists who i'm sure would like nothing more than the challenge to prove so many wrong.  Science thrives on differences.  But on this there really aren't many.  That is why there is a consensus worldwide on this which is pretty damn rare to have, because as i said scientists like nothing more than to prove one another wrong.

Unless of course they were all brain washed by those liberal teachers of theirs and Al Gore is now their king.    This is what 333 most likely believes.  It's akin to the old 'world is round/flat' debates of years ago.  Even when faced with the evidence many still denied the facts.  

[kcballer]

The thing is that  the Climategate emails mostly dealt abberations in scientific explanations- the type that exist in all sciences. When you look at the North Pole and things like the increasing acidity of the ocean, etc, there is pretty much no doubt that global warming exists, but then you look at something like Chicago having one of the coolest summers on record, scientists in the field have to find a way to explain it.

Exactly.  The big one people jump on is the 'why can't we show the temp change' e-mail.  It wasn't a declaration of frustration borne out of lack of evidence.  It was a declaration of frustration borne out of a lack of technological advancement to measure exactly what was wanted.  Heck the guy even wrote a paper about it years ago. 

[Soul Crusher]

Exactly.  The big one people jump on is the 'why can't we show the temp change' e-mail.  It wasn't a declaration of frustration borne out of lack of evidence.  It was a declaration of frustration borne out of a lack of technological advancement to measure exactly what was wanted.  Heck the guy even wrote a paper about it years ago. 

Yeah, sounds like real science to me that justifes us spending trllions of dollars. 

[kcballer]

Yeah, sounds like real science to me that justifes us spending trllions of dollars. 

Read actual papers or talk to someone who studies this not Palin's memoirs and maybe you will understand... until then keep your head in the quicksand struggling whilst your arguments sink further and further from truth, and closer and closer to oil company propaganda. 

[Soul Crusher]

Read actual papers or talk to someone who studies this not Palin's memoirs and maybe you will understand... until then keep your head in the quicksand struggling whilst your arguments sink further and further from truth, and closer and closer to oil company propaganda. 

KC - answer me this.

Previous Ice Ages ended due to warming befre man burned fossil fuels.  How do you or anyone else know thatt he reason for that warming is any different than any alleged warming that is occuring now?   

[kcballer]

KC - answer me this.

Previous Ice Ages ended due to warming befre man burned fossil fuels.  How do you or anyone else know thatt he reason for that warming is any different than any alleged warming that is occuring now?   

If you want an answer to that go talk to the guys studying this.  Seriously.  To get an understanding of this head down to Columbia or wherever and find out when the next presentation is or who the environmental sciences professor is and ask them their opinions.  You seem more than happy to take political leaning sites answers yet you don't go to the source of the information.   

 

[Soul Crusher]

If you want an answer to that go talk to the guys studying this.  Seriously.  To get an understanding of this head down to Columbia or wherever and find out when the next presentation is or who the environmental sciences professor is and ask them their opinions.  You seem more than happy to take political leaning sites answers yet you don't go to the source of the information.   

 

Can you at least acknoweldge that my question is a fair one? 

[kcballer]

Can you at least acknoweldge that my question is a fair one? 

Of course it is.  Questions are necessary if science is to move forward.  I believe this is why so much effort is going into ice core drilling and the testing of sediments on ancient lake beds etc.  To try to better answer questions like this.  But seriously go talk with someone who study's this and doesn't do it with a political agenda be it left or right.  There are some amazing people out there with answers to your questions and perhaps some questions they can't answer but like i said.  Don't get your information on this from any political leaning site.  It will always have some bias in there somewhere. 

[Soul Crusher]

Of course it is.  Questions are necessary if science is to move forward.  I believe this is why so much effort is going into ice core drilling and the testing of sediments on ancient lake beds etc.  To try to better answer questions like this.  But seriously go talk with someone who study's this and doesn't do it with a political agenda be it left or right.  There are some amazing people out there with answers to your questions and perhaps some questions they can't answer but like i said.  Don't get your information on this from any political leaning site.  It will always have some bias in there somewhere. 

Look, if they were talking about small measures and things that really did not impact on peoples finances, etc as far as "solutions" go, it would be onething.

But before we go about potentially bankrupting ourselves, we need to be more certain about this than anything else.

Additionally, I dont see any good doing all this stuff unless China, India Russia adopt equal standards. 

[240 is Back]

anytime you see rich and powerful people all stressed and worked up, you know they're sweating the wool they'll pulling over our eyes.

Remember a visibly shaken paulson during the bailout BS?  haha...

[BM OUT]

If you want an answer to that go talk to the guys studying this.  Seriously.  To get an understanding of this head down to Columbia or wherever and find out when the next presentation is or who the environmental sciences professor is and ask them their opinions.  You seem more than happy to take political leaning sites answers yet you don't go to the source of the information.   

 

But the science is flawed.Its based on temperature readings that were doctored.The entire concept is a hoax.You cant base science on a set of doctored numbers and then come to a conclusion on a theory.The whole thing is a hoax,a fraud and a scam to steal money and redistribute it.

[OzmO]

Look, if they were talking about small measures and things that really did not impact on peoples finances, etc as far as "solutions" go, it would be onething.

But before we go about potentially bankrupting ourselves, we need to be more certain about this than anything else.

Additionally, I dont see any good doing all this stuff unless China, India Russia adopt equal standards.  

I agree but it has to start some place.  If trade is affected, China, India and Russia will fall in line.

I'm not as concerned about GW as i am about pollution in general.  If i can't fish in my local delta because of mercury levels (which is almost true, as you are recommended to eat bass from the delta no more than twice a week because of mercury) then that's a problems that warrants change.  The costs incurred in any massive change will always be large.

One thing to remember when bringing up the previous ice age cycles, is that back then there weren't 6+ billion people, industry and cars.  

Green and GW is certainly politicized and many people and companies are supporting it because its a way to make money.  But i think anything in the realm of change like that will come with people profiting from it.