Author Topic: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill  (Read 4489 times)

Benny B

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Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« on: December 19, 2009, 11:15:53 AM »
 ;D  ;)

Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill

By DAVID ESPO AND RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press Writers

WASHINGTON – Democratic leaders secured the support of Sen. Ben Nelson to provide the 60th and deciding vote for sweeping health care legislation in the Senate, capping a year of struggle and a final burst of deadline bargaining on President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

Nelson, D-Neb., said Saturday he made his decision after winning fresh concessions to limit the availability of abortions in insurance sold in newly created exchanges, as well as tens of million in federal Medicaid funds for his home state.

"I know this is hard for some of my colleagues to accept and I appreciate their right to disagree," he said at a news conference in the Capitol, referring to the abortion issue. "But I would not have voted for this bill without these provisions."

He also noted he had successfully fended off attempts to provide for a government-run insurance option to compete with private insurers.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated the revised measure would lower deficits by $132 billion over a decade, with the possibility of much higher reductions in the subsequent decade.

At the White House, Obama cited those numbers in hailing the legislation as "the largest deficit reduction plan in a decade." In a brief statement, the president also said the country is "on the cusp of making health care reform a reality."

Forecasters said the bill would expand coverage to roughly 94 percent of eligible Americans under age 65, a total that excludes illegal immigrants.

Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada said the measure "will finally level the playing field between American families and the insurance industry."

With Nelson's decision, Obama's Senate allies appear on track to pass the legislation by Christmas, overcoming unanimous Republican opposition and a swirling early winter snowstorm. The House passed its version of the legislation last month, and final compromise talks are expected quickly.
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chadstallion

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2009, 11:50:12 AM »
that beats the 'fall back' option of just going with 50 votes.  I was hoping they would use that option - the rightwing talkers would go crazy!  lots of fun..
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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 12:38:15 PM »
..Yep, even though over 60% of the american people don't want it. The good part about this is, the libs just guaranteed a take back by the GOP. I'm convinced the libs are purposely trying to ruin this country at all costs. Every last one have serious mental issues.

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2009, 01:29:41 PM »
Repubs will def win some seats in Congress in 2010.  But Dems have a 20-seat advantage in the senate currently, right?  How many seats are up for election in 2012?

35 or so?

how many of these are in states that are up for grabs?  I have to think seats in hawaii and cali won't be going GOP.

chadstallion

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2009, 02:08:29 PM »
Repubs will def win some seats in Congress in 2010.  But Dems have a 20-seat advantage in the senate currently, right?  How many seats are up for election in 2012?

35 or so?

how many of these are in states that are up for grabs?  I have to think seats in hawaii and cali won't be going GOP.

good thinking.  and the GOP will have its tea baggers to deal with; splitting votes.
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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2009, 02:29:52 PM »
;D  ;)

Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill

By DAVID ESPO AND RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press Writers

WASHINGTON – Democratic leaders secured the support of Sen. Ben Nelson to provide the 60th and deciding vote for sweeping health care legislation in the Senate, capping a year of struggle and a final burst of deadline bargaining on President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

Nelson, D-Neb., said Saturday he made his decision after winning fresh concessions to limit the availability of abortions in insurance sold in newly created exchanges, as well as tens of million in federal Medicaid funds for his home state.

"I know this is hard for some of my colleagues to accept and I appreciate their right to disagree," he said at a news conference in the Capitol, referring to the abortion issue. "But I would not have voted for this bill without these provisions."

He also noted he had successfully fended off attempts to provide for a government-run insurance option to compete with private insurers.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated the revised measure would lower deficits by $132 billion over a decade, with the possibility of much higher reductions in the subsequent decade.

At the White House, Obama cited those numbers in hailing the legislation as "the largest deficit reduction plan in a decade." In a brief statement, the president also said the country is "on the cusp of making health care reform a reality."

Forecasters said the bill would expand coverage to roughly 94 percent of eligible Americans under age 65, a total that excludes illegal immigrants.

Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada said the measure "will finally level the playing field between American families and the insurance industry."

With Nelson's decision, Obama's Senate allies appear on track to pass the legislation by Christmas, overcoming unanimous Republican opposition and a swirling early winter snowstorm. The House passed its version of the legislation last month, and final compromise talks are expected quickly.

Good to see you dumbasses happy about this.... ::)

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2009, 03:48:31 PM »
Making a Good Bill Even Better
Posted by Nancy-Ann DeParle on December 19, 2009

Congress has been working hard for months to shape health insurance reform legislation that will bring down costs, expand coverage, increase accountability for insurers, and attack our mounting deficit. We got good news today on all those fronts, as fresh statements of support from the Small Business Majority, the American Cancer Society, and the American Diabetes Association amongst others make clear.

We learned today from the Congressional Budget Office that this bill will reduce the deficit by $132 billion over the first decade, and more than $1 trillion in the decade after that. That makes it the biggest deficit-reduction effort in over a decade. All while expanding coverage to 30 million more Americans.

But bringing down the deficit and expanding coverage are only part of what insurance reform will do. And today the Senate introduced a package of changes to their bill that will make critical progress in ensuring competition, providing affordable choices, and holding the insurance companies accountable. These improvements were bundled together in what’s called a manager’s amendment – and here are some of the highlights:

    * Penalizing insurers for unfair rate hikes. If insurers who arbitrarily jack up rates before the exchanges come online, they won’t be allowed to participate in them – they’ll miss the opportunity to compete for millions of new customers. That creates a strong incentive to keep premiums low before the exchanges are up and running in 2014.

    * Making sure your money goes toward care, not administrative costs. Insurers will be required to spend a greater portion of your premium on the care you receive, rather than administrative costs or salaries. And if they don’t, they’ll have to pay you a rebate.

    * Ending discrimination based on pre-existing conditions. Once the exchanges are open in 2014, insurance companies will no longer be able to deny you coverage because you have a pre-existing condition. In the meantime, the legislation immediately creates a high-risk pool where adults with pre-existing conditions can purchase affordable coverage. And for families with kids, the news is even better: insurers will immediately be prohibited from denying coverage to kids with pre-existing conditions. Period.

    * Protecting your access to care. Lifetime limits on benefits will be banned right away.

    * Annual limits will also be banned once the exchanges are up and running. The manager’s amendment ensures that in the meantime, the use of annual limits will be tightly restricted until we can do away with this unfair practice entirely.

    * More help for small business. The bill now includes additional help for small businesses. The health insurance tax credit for small businesses will now start in 2010, eligibility for the credit will be expanded, and small businesses will see improved purchasing power to make sure employees are getting good coverage at a good value.

    * Choice and competition. Insurers will now offer multi-state plans under the supervision of the Office of Personnel Management. That means more choice and more competition in your state.

    * Focusing on quality, not quantity. Health care providers will be reimbursed by Medicare for the quality of care, not just the quantity of tests and treatments. Shifting the way we reimburse for care is one of the most important things we can do to rein in spiraling health care costs – and it means a renewed focus on what’s best for the patient.

All told, it’s been a landmark day in the health insurance reform effort. There’s a lot more hard work to be done, and we’re confident that the Senate and House will continue to work hard to get this bill across the finish line and to the President’s desk. For the millions of Americans who don’t have coverage, for those who are struggling with costs or being mistreated by their insurance company, every day counts. It’s time for us to deliver.

UPDATE: The statements of support continue to roll in, here's a sample:

    American Diabetes Association (ADA):  “The Bill Makes Health Care More Accessible And Affordable…We Urge You To Advance The Patient Protection And Affordable Care Act...” In a letter to U.S. Senators, the American Diabetes Association (ADA) wrote, “On behalf of the nearly 24 million Americans with diabetes and the 57 million more with pre-diabetes, we thank you for your tireless commitment to reforming our nation’s health system.  We understand the tremendous amount work that has gone into H.R. 3590, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and are grateful for your efforts.  The progress that has been made thus far has brought us closer than ever to achieving the goals of health reform. Specifically, the bill makes health care more accessible and affordable  to the millions of Americans who are currently uninsured and underinsured, including those with diabetes who have been denied coverage or charged exorbitant amounts due to their preexisting condition. The bill also includes many important provisions in terms of prevention, insurance reform, and the delivery of quality and affordable health care. These are but a few of the long overdue improvements to our broken healthcare system…We urge you to advance the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and look forward to working with you and members of the House of Representatives in Conference to make certain that our country receives a final Health care package that will make a real and positive difference in the lives of people with diabetes.  [American Diabetes Association Letter to U.S. Senate, 12/19/09]

    American Cancer Society (ACS):  Health Reform Bill’s Provisions Banning Coverage Limits Would “Afford Patients With Serious Health Conditions The Strong Financial Protections They Deserve…We Thank The White House And Senate Leaders For Hearings [Our] Concerns.”  In a statement, the American Cancer Society (ACS) said, "We are enormously pleased that the manager's amendment bans annual coverage limits after 2014 and ensures that any annual limits in plans issued before then are set high enough to cover essential health benefits for patients. That language, coupled with the amendment's immediate ban on lifetime coverage limits, would afford patients with serious health conditions the strong financial protections they deserve in the face of major medical expenses. We thank the White House and Senate leaders for hearing the concerns of cancer patients and strongly strengthening these important provisions."  [American Cancer Society Statement, 12/19/09]

    Small Business Majority:  “It’s Clear That [Senators] Have Heard The Voices Of Small Business Owners…Many Of The Recently Proposed Amendments Contribute To An Overall Bill That Will Be Even More Helpful To Small Business Owners And The Self-Employed.” In a letter to Senate Majority Leader Reid, Small Business Majority CEO John Arensmeyer wrote, “We appreciate the tremendous amount of work that you and your colleagues in the Senate have put into crafting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act so that it will both meet its original goals and gain enough support for passage. Although the necessary compromises have been disappointing and frustrating for some, it’s clear that you and your fellow senators have heard the voices of small business owners, who so desperately need relief from an unfair, overly expensive health insurance system. Many of the recently proposed amendments contribute to an overall bill that will be even more helpful to small business owners and the self-employed. Small Business Majority will continue to support the effort to bring this measure to the Senate floor for a final vote and passage…Again, thank you for your continuing hard work on this vital issue. You can count on Small Business Majority to work to get this bill to conference committee and ensure that final legislation is passed that meets the needs of America’s small businesses and the economy.”  [Small Business Majority Letter to Senate Majority Leader Reid, 12/19/09]

    Doctors For America: “We Wish To Express Our Support For Senate Passage Of The Patient Protection And Affordable Care Act…[It] Represents A Historic Step Toward Improving The Health Care System For Us And Our Patients.”  In a letter to Senate Majority Leader Reid, Doctors For America President Vivek Murphy wrote, “On behalf of Doctors for America and its 16,000 physician and medical student members across all 50 states who are committed to building a better health care system for our patients, we wish to express our support for Senate passage of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. This landmark piece of legislation provides increased access to affordable health coverage, implements market reforms to protect our patients, invests in the primary care physician workforce and public health system, and begins to reform the payment and delivery systems so doctors can focus on providing high quality care for our patients…As doctors and medical students, we see the urgent need to fix our broken health care system first hand every day – which is why a majority of physicians support health reform this year. We are fighting to ensure that all Americans receive access to high quality care - the kind of care that we, as physicians, want for our patients. While we know that this legislation will not fix all the problems of our broken health care system, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act represents a historic step toward improving the health care system for us and our patients.”  [Doctors For America Letter to U.S. Senate, 12/19/09]

    Community Catalyst: “We Strongly Encourage Passage Of The Bill Because We Believe It Will Positively Impact The Lives Of Millions Of Americans.”  In a statement, Community Catalyst said, “Today, the U.S. Senate has brought us even closer to the finish line of passing landmark health reform legislation that will improve access to quality affordable health care for millions of Americans.  As a national advocacy organization actively working in more than 40 states to ensure consumers have a strong voice in improving America’s health care system, we are very pleased 60 Senators from states where we have focused our efforts have pledged their support for the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. We thank these Senators for hearing the concerns of consumers across the country and allowing this important process to move forward. The Manager’s amendment released today builds on the strengths of the bill through critical consumer protections such as programs to contain health costs and make insurance policies more affordable, greater accountability from health insurance companies, improved choice and competition, and better access to quality affordable health care for vulnerable populations.  We strongly encourage passage of the bill because we believe it will positively impact the lives of millions of Americans.  As the only national consumer organization that has on-the-ground experience implementing comprehensive health reform at the state level, Community Catalyst understands the benefits of this bill and the important ongoing role consumer advocates will need to play to ensure its success. We encourage the Senate to pass this critical legislation, and to continue to work with the House to ensure that all Americans have access to quality health-care they can afford.”  [Community Catalyst Press Releaee, 12/19/09]

    National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization (NHPCO): “We Applaud [The Senate’s] Recognition Of The Importance Of Preserving Quality, Compassionate And Cost-Efficient End-Of-Life Care.”   In a letter, the National Hospice And Palliative Care Organization (NHPC) wrote, “On behalf of hospice and palliative care providers and the more than 1.5 million patients, and their families, served by hospice each year, the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization (NHPCO) would like to express our strong support for the national effort to enact health care reform. We acknowledge the enormity and complexity of the task facing Congress, and we applaud your recognition of the importance of preserving quality, compassionate and cost efficient end-of-life care as a critical component to the nation’s health infrastructure.” [National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization letter, 12/19/09]

Nancy-Ann DeParle is the Director of the White House Office of Health Reform.
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Kazan

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2009, 05:17:16 PM »
That article contradicts itself in its first sentence, how can you bring down cost and expand coverage at the same time? You can't and it is ridiculous to even make such claims. As usual the government pretends like they are trying to fix some injustice by the evil bastards in the private sector, when it is in reality the evil bastards in DC that set the rules in the first place. Not to mention what the federal government is doing is unconstitutional, but why should they let that stop them ::). The health care system worked great before the government got involved, a fine fucking mess they made of it, then try to pin the blame on the private sector.
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outby43

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2009, 05:30:17 PM »
The health care system worked great before the government got involved, a fine fucking mess they made of it, then try to pin the blame on the private sector.

Do you know how many countless stories there are with people that needed life saving transplants or Cancer treatment that the insurance companies refused to pay for without a bunch of red tape and litigation.  Yeah a great system.  ::)




Kazan

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2009, 05:47:50 PM »
Do you know how many countless stories there are with people that needed life saving transplants or Cancer treatment that the insurance companies refused to pay for without a bunch of red tape and litigation.  Yeah a great system.  ::)





What exactly are you talking about, how do you think the insurance companies got such a strangle hold on the healthcare? I 'll give you 3 guess and the first 2 don't count. You can put as many  fucking ::) as you want, maybe you can't remember a time before the insurance companies ran everything, but I do. I remember having a family doctor, shots for school $25 out the door no bullshit no red tape. Then as usual the do-gooder assholes in DC have to get involved and turn everything into a giant circle jerk.
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ToxicAvenger

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2009, 06:06:47 PM »
great...first black prez and he succeeds in creating a pan handling healthcare plan for people on welfare


figures :-\
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ToxicAvenger

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2009, 06:08:32 PM »
Do you know how many countless stories there are with people that needed life saving transplants or Cancer treatment that the insurance companies refused to pay for without a bunch of red tape and litigation.  Yeah a great system.  ::)


my girls on dylasis
with this new plan..she's gonna get screwed...she'll actually being paying more out of pocket...

CAUSE SHE WORKS...it'd work totally in her favour if she quits and goes on disability...

unlike people that like this plan...she has pride and is no petty beggar
carpe` vaginum!

bigdumbbell

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2009, 06:24:25 PM »
haha  great to see old white men complainin....republican s protect the unborn and dont give a shit about the living   LOL  i am SO HAPPY

ToxicAvenger

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2009, 06:26:29 PM »
haha  great to see old white men complainin....republican s protect the unborn and dont give a shit about the living   LOL  i am SO HAPPY

i'm originally from pakistan...
most indians and pakis i know r repbs

i kinda only see illegal mexicans and low class blacks happy here :-\


most upper class educated blacks i know are ALSO repbs :-*  

low class blacks happy about getting free shit...whats new :-\
carpe` vaginum!

bigdumbbell

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2009, 06:47:13 PM »
yes 7-11 and Dunkin Doughnut are filled with them...i dont see illegals or hang with street blacks so i can neither confirm or deny. most upper class educated blacks i know are democrats.  so, i really dont know what the fuck you are talking about.  hope this helps...

Soul Crusher

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2009, 07:16:19 PM »
dISGUSTING WHORES.
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Payoffs for states seal Senate deal (Faces of Corruption - Sickening!)
Politico ^ | 12/19/09 | CHRIS FRATES

Posted on Saturday, December 19, 2009 9:04:38 PM by broken_arrow1

Ben Nelson’s “Cornhusker Kickback,” as the GOP is calling it, got all the attention Saturday, but other senators lined up for deals as Majority Leader Harry Reid corralled the last few votes for a health reform package.

Nelson’s might be the most blatant – a deal carved out for a single state, a permanent exemption from the state share of Medicaid expansion for Nebraska, meaning federal taxpayers have to kick in an additional $45 million in the first decade.

But another Democratic holdout, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), took credit for $10 billion in new funding for community health centers, while denying it was a “sweetheart deal.” He was clearly more enthusiastic about a bill he said he couldn’t support just three days ago.

Nelson and Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) carved out an exemption for non-profit insurers in their states from a hefty excise tax. Similar insurers in the other 48 states will pay the tax.

Vermont and Massachusetts were given additional Medicaid funding, another plus for Sanders and Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) Three states – Pennsylvania, New York and Florida – all won protections for their Medicare Advantage beneficiaries at a time when the program is facing cuts nationwide.

All of this came on top of a $300 million increase for Medicaid in Louisiana, designed to win the vote of Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu.


(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2009, 10:01:29 PM »
Good to see you dumbasses happy about this.... ::)

Who knows if he's happy -Benny doesn't have his own thoughts.  He just reads articles and posts them.  He really doesn't understand the implications of any of this.  That's why you really don't see anyone outside of a select few defending this administration.

I'm amazed at how blatantly the buying of votes is flaunted.
Y

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2009, 01:35:53 AM »
That article contradicts itself in its first sentence, how can you bring down cost and expand coverage at the same time?

Easily! By getting rid of waste and bureacracy. By putting more money towards actual patient care instead of administrative salaries, bonuses for denial of care, and private jets with gold cutlery.

The health care system worked great before the government got involved, a fine fucking mess they made of it, then try to pin the blame on the private sector.

                                    
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24KT

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2009, 01:50:47 AM »
i'm originally from pakistan...
most indians and pakis i know r repbs

i kinda only see illegal mexicans and low class blacks happy here :-\


most upper class educated blacks i know are ALSO repbs :-*  

low class blacks happy about getting free shit...whats new :-\

Yep, most Indians and Pakistanis are right wing conservatives ...by creed.
As are most upper class educated,  Blacks, Whites, Asians, Mexicans etc., etc.,
Infact, most educated upper class people, ...especially imigrants are right wing conservatives... by creed.

...then they get a glimpse of the right wing conservative fvcktards who hold & run for office in North America,
...and they start voting Democrat, Libertarian, and Liberal in droves. A label without deeds means nothing.
w

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2009, 07:35:03 AM »
Jag - you are probably the dumbest person I have ever encountered with a 160 IQ. 

You truly cant believe the nonsense you type. 

Kazan

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2009, 08:38:51 AM »
Easily! By getting rid of waste and bureacracy. By putting more money towards actual patient care instead of administrative salaries, bonuses for denial of care, and private jets with gold cutlery.

Oh bullshit, you really are naive aren't you? The government getting rid of buracrecy and cutting costs, why don't you try to get blood from a stone it would be easier.  gold cutlery ::)

Yeah post a bunch of stupid smiley faces, since you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about as usual, besides how the fuck would you know how the health care system worked before the dumbass do-gooders in DC decided to hand it over to the insurance companies? Don't fucking try to tell me, you see I'm old enough to remember pre HMO, PPO, <insert acronym here>O.
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24KT

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2009, 09:21:05 AM »
Oh bullshit, you really are naive aren't you? The government getting rid of buracrecy and cutting costs, why don't you try to get blood from a stone it would be easier.  gold cutlery ::)

yes... corporate jets and gold cutlery  FF to 4 mins 19 secs



Quote
Yeah post a bunch of stupid smiley faces, since you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about as usual, besides how the fuck would you know how the health care system worked before the dumbass do-gooders in DC decided to hand it over to the insurance companies?

It wasn't do-gooders in DC, ...it was Richard Nixon and his buddies at the health insurance companies that gave you this monstrosity.


Quote
Don't fucking try to tell me, you see I'm old enough to remember pre HMO, PPO, <insert acronym here>O.

I'd tell you that I'm old enough to remember as well, but that would contradict my claim to being 21 yrs. old.  ;)


http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=858694961263
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Kazan

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2009, 09:38:36 AM »
yes... corporate jets and gold cutlery  FF to 4 mins 19 secs



It wasn't do-gooders in DC, ...it was Richard Nixon and his buddies at the health insurance companies that gave you this monstrosity.


I'd tell you that I'm old enough to remember as well, but that would contradict my claim to being 21 yrs. old.  ;)


http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=858694961263

Are you trying to debate what I said? It seems to me you are re-enforcing what I said, and I hate to break the news to you the POTUS can't just implement shit without congressional approval, it is the government as a whole that implemented this shit. You want to try to re-direct that this is some republican disaster, well I'm an independant, so I am not going to get caught up in potitical patry allegiance. But nice try.

And before healthcare was handed over to the insurance companies, how in the world could my parents afford to have 2 kids, and pay for all the other healtcare realated things? Because the doctors did rake you over the coles, no the $300 dollar aspirin didn't come about until the HMO.

Like I said the healthcare system worked fine before government got involved
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24KT

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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2009, 09:41:43 AM »
Are you trying to debate what I said? It seems to me you are re-enforcing what I said, and I hate to break the news to you the POTUS can't just implement shit without congressional approval, it is the government as a whole that implemented this shit. You want to try to re-direct that this is some republican disaster, well I'm an independant, so I am not going to get caught up in potitical patry allegiance. But nice try.

And before healthcare was handed over to the insurance companies, how in the world could my parents afford to have 2 kids, and pay for all the other healtcare realated things? Because the doctors did rake you over the coles, no the $300 dollar aspirin didn't come about until the HMO.

Like I said the healthcare system worked fine before government got involved

As a Canadian who has a gov run healthcare system that works wonderfully, I'd say the fault lays in your governments, ...and in yourselves for letting things get this far. Shame on YOU!
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Re: Senate Dems reach 60 vote threshold on health bill
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2009, 09:50:38 AM »
As a Canadian who has a gov run healthcare system that works wonderfully, I'd say the fault lays in your governments, ...and in yourselves for letting things get this far. Shame on YOU!

Yeah shame on me ::) I have a clear understanding and can compare A to B and see that since B was implemented the system is fucked up. Unfortuanatly I am outnumbered by the I want something for nothing crowd that has taken over the American electorate like a fucking parasite.
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