"Why I Left Liberalism #19 - They Create America's Problems: Detroit ('Nuf Said)

[James]

"Why I Left Liberalism #19 - They Create America's Problems: Detroit ('Nuf Said)"

Back in October I wrote a post about the Obama administration had thousands of poor (mostly black) Detroiters line up for what they thought was “Obama money” to prevent them from becoming or staying homeless. In reality, officials were only handing out applications for the funding, which they ran out of! It was a scene right out of the former Soviet Union: People standing in line for several hours for a pair of government-issue galoshes, only to find when they finally made it to the front that they ran out of their size. (And these are the same people who are soon going to be in charge of your health care.)

For more about the city with the nation’s lowest graduation rate, as well as the highest crime and unemployment rate, see Steven Crowder’s latest PJTV video:

Points made my Crowder during the clip:

Detroit, as Crowder describes it, is the “poster boy for leftist policies at work.” Every single mayor since 1962 has been a liberal Democrat and Detroit has seen millions upon millions of funding for implementing every failed social and welfare policy in the Democrat playbook.

Detroit schools get $11,100 per student (national average: $9,600), yet a student here has a bigger chance of ending up in prison than graduating high school. The Detroit murder rate is 5 times the national average and 70% of murders go completely unsolved.

Coincidentally, Walter E. Williams has this piece out today on the criminally disastrous state of Detroit schools:

Black Education Walter E. Williams Wednesday, December 23, 2009

Detroit’s (predominantly black) public schools are the worst in the nation and it takes some doing to be worse than Washington, D.C. Only 3 percent of Detroit’s fourth-graders scored proficient on the most recent National Assessment of Education Progress (NAEP) test, sometimes

[MCWAY]

Yet, some of these same brilliant liberals will bleat and whine about voucher programs, because either it will "take money from public schools" (it ain't like the public schools are using it correctly).

Or, they'll whine about "separation of church and state", in the event that vouchers get used at religious schools.

Obama is the one that killed that DC voucher program, that allowed black students to attend private schools and get a decent education, dooming them to wallow in D.C.'s pathetic public schools.

[Soul Crusher]

Yet, some of these same brilliant liberals will bleat and whine about voucher programs, because either it will "take money from public schools" (it ain't like the public schools are using it correctly).

Or, they'll whine about "separation of church and state", in the event that vouchers get used at religious schools.

Obama is the one that killed that DC voucher program, that allowed black students to attend private schools and get a decent education, dooming them to wallow in D.C.'s pathetic public schools.

Liberalism is a lie.

Liberalism is a severe mental disorder.

Liberalism is the ideology of morons, dreamers, children, ivory tower do-nothings, welfare brats, and guilt ridden whites. 

[MCWAY]

Liberalism is a lie.

Liberalism is a severe mental disorder.

Liberalism is the ideology of morons, dreamers, children, ivory tower do-nothings, welfare brats, and guilt ridden whites.  

Some say that the "religious right" is neither. Some say that liberals aren't really liberal about anything, unless it's drugs or sex.

[Soul Crusher]

Some say that the "religious right" is neither. Some say that liberals aren't really liberal about anything, unless it's drugs or sex.

Liberals are only liberal about giving other peoples' money away and killing babies. 

[240 is Back]

I think it is too easy to just bitch about liberals and blame them for everything.

it's better to discuss better alternatives to specific liberal policies.

[BM OUT]

I think it is too easy to just bitch about liberals and blame them for everything.

it's better to discuss better alternatives to specific liberal policies.

Well the social programs THEY put in are bankrupting the country.The community reinvestment act was the number one reason for the fall of the real estate market and thus the economy.Their policies in education have destroyed it.Their number one supporters,the unions,have wrecked industry after industry.Id say thats a fairly poor track record.

[MCWAY]

Liberals are only liberal about giving other peoples' money away and killing babies. 

I think you missed one.

[Soul Crusher]

I think you missed one.

Like what? 

[kcballer]

Detroit has issues far beyond what any democrat or republican can fix.  Has there been poor decision making? Of course.  But a steady decline in the major industries of the area (Billy of course will blame unions of which they have a share of the blame but so too do those commissioning poorly designed cars etc) has led to a ghettofication of Detroit.  It's no secret that poor neighbourhoods have low graduation rates, high crime rates, high umeployment etc and fixing those is much harder to do than signing in a bill or giving out vouchers or cutting funding and telling them to stand on their own.  Those are all political tricks to show they are doing something rather than nothing. 

In reality no government can effect change unless change is welcomed.  It starts with the families.  It starts with parents raising their children to value education and to stay off the streets.  It starts with fathers raising their children and mothers instilling values in their children.  It starts with the fathers and mothers having access to work and being paid enough to live above the poverty line on.  That is the hardest part.  How do you break that cycle?  Cutting funding isn't going to do it and neither is pouring more money into programs which do nothing to solve the actual problem.  It's a social, societal change but how does a government or nation start to solve that? 

[240 is Back]

yet, BILLY, you fail to deliver better alternatives.

Libs suck, we got that.  we can have a circle jerk for 3 years about that, throwing our splooge on one another in glee...

Or, we can come up with BETTER ideas, BETTER candidates, and a BETTER future for america.








or, we can scream lib and continue to circle jerk.  Just saying.

[shootfighter1]

Agree completely kc.  Cyclical familiar dysfunction is hard to break and a huge factor in Detroit.  I remember going to Detroit 10 yrs ago when I was in med school...it was horrible back then, trash everywhere, empty delapidated buildings, tons of people clustered on the streets.

However, I do think the fact that detroit has had some of the most liberal leaders for several decades and some of the strongest auto and teacher unions are partially to blame for the extremely poor economic conditions.

We cannot create an atmosphere of entitlements...people stop acheiving and it promotes poor ethics all around.

[kcballer]

Agree completely kc.  Cyclical familiar dysfunction is hard to break and a huge factor in Detroit.  I remember going to Detroit 10 yrs ago when I was in med school...it was horrible back then, trash everywhere, empty delapidated buildings, tons of people clustered on the streets.

However, I do think the fact that detroit has had some of the most liberal leaders for several decades and some of the strongest auto and teacher unions are partially to blame for the extremely poor economic conditions.

We cannot create an atmosphere of entitlements...people stop acheiving and it promotes poor ethics all around.

I agree.  Unions have become far to ridged in a lot of areas.  I believe they make a valuable contribution though and should not be assigned all the blame.  Like i have said the major employers of Detroit made horrible fiscal decisions coupled with over reaching unions put them in a tailspin they could not get out of. 

How would you attack the social issue shoot? 

[BM OUT]

yet, BILLY, you fail to deliver better alternatives.

Libs suck, we got that.  we can have a circle jerk for 3 years about that, throwing our splooge on one another in glee...

Or, we can come up with BETTER ideas, BETTER candidates, and a BETTER future for america.








or, we can scream lib and continue to circle jerk.  Just saying.

You want better ideas?Cut the pay roll tax by 50%.Those people that are under 40 ask them if they would rather have social security or opt out of the program and keep their money.Raise the social security age to 70 and means test it.Eliminate the department of education and let local school districts run it.Get rid of the IRS.Go to a zero income tax and just have sales tax.Give buisiness tax cuts for moving into under developed areas like Detroit perhaps a 50% federal tax cut.Get rid of environmental rules that punnish buisiness and pass a law that they cant bring ANY enviro lawsuits at all.Term limits.Eliminate the national endowment of the arts,the fed,and all other redundant government agensies.A five year elimination of any increase in ANY government spending.Pass a balanced budget amendment.

Anything else you would like.Eliminate drug laws.

[shootfighter1]

I think major tax incentives to attrack business back to Detroit would help.  Electing less corrupt more fiscally conservative leaders would help (since they swung so far left).

Social issues...man, it's probably really hard when the problem is that widespread: 
-Try breaking up the public schools into more manageable, smaller charter-like schools focused on character building and work ethic just as much as education.  Do this early on in elementary school.  More school discipline, more after hours activities, sports, longer school days, more mentoring programs with adults and older kids.
-I think this problem is better tackled on a local level than a city or state level because it's all about teaching values, ethics, pride, self-respect and respect for others.
-I'd have everyone (outside of the elderly or disabled) on assistance doing some kind of work...even if it's just to give them a purpose or some pride in themselves.  Pure entitlements are like putting a govenor on people's potential.
-Big efforts for neighborhood clean ups.  I think we are all affected by the physical environment we're in.
-Make sure there are accessible medical clinics where people can get free contraception.  Though I break from many conservatives on this point, I think it saves money and saves kids in the overall picture.
-No tolerance for gang members, get them off the streets.
-Stop arresting people for simple marijuana violations.  Make it all a misdemeanor with no jail time.

[kcballer]

Great points shoot and billy.  See this is what we need.  More discussion on what solves the problems and less on what doesn't.  I think ideas from both of you would help greatly in the grand scheme of things for Detroit and other low income neighborhoods. 

[shootfighter1]

I feel for the kids growing up in the ghettos of Detroit.  You can't choose your parents or where your born.  Some people probably don't give a shit but many of us do...we may disagree with how to intervene but we can't stop caring.

[kcballer]

I feel for the kids growing up in the ghettos of Detroit.  You can't choose your parents or where your born.  Some people probably don't give a shit but many of us do...we may disagree with how to intervene but we can't stop caring.

Great point shoot. 

[BM OUT]

I feel for the kids growing up in the ghettos of Detroit.  You can't choose your parents or where your born.  Some people probably don't give a shit but many of us do...we may disagree with how to intervene but we can't stop caring.

The problem is you cant throw government money at a problem and think that solves it.If you told buisiness' that they would pay ZERO pay roll tax on anyone they hire within a five mile radius and give them a 50% tax cut on federal taxes and capitol gains taxes if they move into inner city areas,can you imagine the boom to those cities?Can you imagine how many small buisiness would move in there like delis,grocery stores,tailors etc?However,our government would rather punnish these companies with huge taxes,crazy enviro laws,and silly union demands and they just leave to go elsewhere.And whats left?A city in ruin.

Jack Kemp[he went off the road at the end]had excellent ideas for these things but no one would listen.

[shootfighter1]

Thanks kc.

[kcballer]

The problem is you cant throw government money at a problem and think that solves it.If you told buisiness' that they would pay ZERO pay roll tax on anyone they hire within a five mile radius and give them a 50% tax cut on federal taxes and capitol gains taxes if they move into inner city areas,can you imagine the boom to those cities?Can you imagine how many small buisiness would move in there like delis,grocery stores,tailors etc?However,our government would rather punnish these companies with huge taxes,crazy enviro laws,and silly union demands and they just leave to go elsewhere.And whats left?A city in ruin.

Jack Kemp[he went off the road at the end]had excellent ideas for these things but no one would listen.

Those are some solid ideas Billy. 

[OzmO]

You want better ideas?Cut the pay roll tax by 50%.Those people that are under 40 ask them if they would rather have social security or opt out of the program and keep their money.Raise the social security age to 70 and means test it.Eliminate the department of education and let local school districts run it.Get rid of the IRS.Go to a zero income tax and just have sales tax.Give buisiness tax cuts for moving into under developed areas like Detroit perhaps a 50% federal tax cut.Get rid of environmental rules that punnish buisiness and pass a law that they cant bring ANY enviro lawsuits at all.Term limits.Eliminate the national endowment of the arts,the fed,and all other redundant government agensies.A five year elimination of any increase in ANY government spending.Pass a balanced budget amendment.

Anything else you would like.Eliminate drug laws.

I like it, I like it, I like it!

[OzmO]

I think major tax incentives to attrack business back to Detroit would help.  Electing less corrupt more fiscally conservative leaders would help (since they swung so far left).

Social issues...man, it's probably really hard when the problem is that widespread: 
-Try breaking up the public schools into more manageable, smaller charter-like schools focused on character building and work ethic just as much as education.  Do this early on in elementary school.  More school discipline, more after hours activities, sports, longer school days, more mentoring programs with adults and older kids.
-I think this problem is better tackled on a local level than a city or state level because it's all about teaching values, ethics, pride, self-respect and respect for others.
-I'd have everyone (outside of the elderly or disabled) on assistance doing some kind of work...even if it's just to give them a purpose or some pride in themselves.  Pure entitlements are like putting a govenor on people's potential.
-Big efforts for neighborhood clean ups.  I think we are all affected by the physical environment we're in.
-Make sure there are accessible medical clinics where people can get free contraception.  Though I break from many conservatives on this point, I think it saves money and saves kids in the overall picture.
-No tolerance for gang members, get them off the streets.
-Stop arresting people for simple marijuana violations.  Make it all a misdemeanor with no jail time.

I like this too, I like this too, I like this too!  Sadly, government agencies don't go away very easily.

[Soul Crusher]

The problem is you cant throw government money at a problem and think that solves it.If you told buisiness' that they would pay ZERO pay roll tax on anyone they hire within a five mile radius and give them a 50% tax cut on federal taxes and capitol gains taxes if they move into inner city areas,can you imagine the boom to those cities?Can you imagine how many small buisiness would move in there like delis,grocery stores,tailors etc?However,our government would rather punnish these companies with huge taxes,crazy enviro laws,and silly union demands and they just leave to go elsewhere.And whats left?A city in ruin.

Jack Kemp[he went off the road at the end]had excellent ideas for these things but no one would listen.

Where do I sign up for this?