Author Topic: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!  (Read 4070 times)

Soul Crusher

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Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« on: December 23, 2009, 08:27:39 AM »
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Sarah Palin: I told you so! (Reid protecting those 'nonexistent' death panels ?)
Hotair ^ | 12/23/2009 | Ed Morrissey

Posted on Wednesday, December 23, 2009 11:18:59 AM by SeekAndFind

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It didn’t take long for Jim DeMint’s outrage over highly unusual language protecting a care-rationing board to generate a response from Sarah Palin. This came just days after Politifact called her statement about “death panels” the “lie of the year,” but the attempt to rule any Congressional motion that changes the rulings of the Independent Medical Advisory Board out of order in perpetuity has highlighted once again this rationing board and its potential impact in a government-run system. And that, Palin writes at her Facebook page, was her point all along:

No one is certain of what’s in the bill, but Senator Jim DeMint spotted one shocking revelation regarding the section in the bill describing the Independent Medicare Advisory Board (now called the Independent Payment Advisory Board), which is a panel of bureaucrats charged with cutting health care costs on the backs of patients – also known as rationing. Apparently Reid and friends have changed the rules of the Senate so that the section of the bill dealing with this board can’t be repealed or amended without a 2/3 supermajority vote. Senator DeMint said:

“This is a rule change. It’s a pretty big deal. We will be passing a new law and at the same time creating a senate rule that makes it out of order to amend or even repeal the law. I’m not even sure that it’s constitutional, but if it is, it most certainly is a senate rule. I don’t see why the majority party wouldn’t put this in every bill. If you like your law, you most certainly would want it to have force for future senates. I mean, we want to bind future congresses. This goes to the fundamental purpose of senate rules: to prevent a tyrannical majority from trampling the rights of the minority or of future congresses.”

In other words, Democrats are protecting this rationing “death panel” from future change with a procedural hurdle. You have to ask why they’re so concerned about protecting this particular provision. Could it be because bureaucratic rationing is one important way Democrats want to “bend the cost curve” and keep health care spending down?

The Congressional Budget Office seems to think that such rationing has something to do with cost. In a letter to Harry Reid last week, CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf noted (with a number of caveats) that the bill’s calculations call for a reduction in Medicare’s spending rate by about 2 percent in the next two decades, but then he writes the kicker:

“It is unclear whether such a reduction in the growth rate could be achieved, and if so, whether it would be accomplished through greater efficiencies in the delivery of health care or would reduce access to care or diminish the quality of care.”

Though Nancy Pelosi and friends have tried to call “death panels” the “lie of the year,” this type of rationing – what the CBO calls “reduc[ed] access to care” and “diminish[ed] quality of care” – is precisely what I meant when I used that metaphor.

All health care gets rationed in one manner or another, as does every commodity (except air, although with cap-and-trade, that would change). Insurers ration, and so do consumers in a fully free-market system such as the Lasik or cosmetic-surgery industries. The difference is that those systems involve free choice, especially the latter. With insurers as third-party payers, there is less free choice, but the solution to that is more competition and better ability to be completely portable — or better yet, the removal of third-party payers for normal health care services.

When government rations commodities, it does so with the force of law. Considering the power it would have had in a completely government-run system to make the kind of decisions now left to insurers in a competitive market, people are correct to be worried about how exactly IMAB would bend the cost curve. Their mission in the ObamaCare bill is to “reduce the per capita rate of growth in Medicare spending.” The way ObamaCare is structured, the only way to hold down costs would be to start denying more treatments, or to cut compensation to the point where long wait times take care of the rationing by discouraging access to a dwindling number of providers. Will that prevent more deaths and make Americans healthier?

With insurers, consumers have the option to find another insurer or self insure. Those options won’t exist in a government-run system, and are seriously limited in ObamaCare, even in the latest incarnation. Without those options, the IMAB’s decisions will be inescapable — and thanks to Harry Reid’s language, citizens won’t even have the opportunity to challenge IMAB actions in Congress. It’s an abomination.

Update: I just talked to a source on Capitol Hill who wants to make sure everyone understands the mechanics of the issue. The bill sets up a supermajority threshold of 67 votes to bring accountability to IMAB decisions, and the rule on being in or out of order can get waived at 60 votes. However, as this battle shows, even getting to 60 is almost an impossibility, let alone 67. Clearly Reid wants to put accountability out of reach with these radical propositions.


________________________ ___________________

Thank you for the Xmas gift you marxists.

kcballer

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 08:56:23 AM »
hahaha Wrong! Not death panels sunshine.  Palin once again is a retard.
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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 09:05:36 AM »
hahaha Wrong! Not death panels sunshine.  Palin once again is a retard.

KC - what does this clip say to you:


kcballer

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 09:13:06 AM »
It's an example he uses to show that medicare should be more fiscally responsible when it comes to unnecessary testing etc.  I thought as an opponent on medicare/mediaid on financial grounds you would welcome such a move?
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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 09:17:52 AM »
It's an example he uses to show that medicare should be more fiscally responsible when it comes to unnecessary testing etc.  I thought as an opponent on medicare/mediaid on financial grounds you would welcome such a move?

Good try.  Did you even listen to what he said? 

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 09:20:13 AM »
Good try.  Did you even listen to what he said? 

Of course i did.  I answered your question, will you answer mine? As a fiscally responsible person would you prefer medicare/mediaid went without any oversight into unnecessary treatments? You did post how much it is costing is this not a fiscally smart move? Or would you prefer it abolished?
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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 09:24:36 AM »
Of course i did.  I answered your question, will you answer mine? As a fiscally responsible person would you prefer medicare/mediaid went without any oversight into unnecessary treatments? You did post how much it is costing is this not a fiscally smart move? Or would you prefer it abolished?

So she is right - its essentially a death panel since Obama is saying that the govt will decide if a pain pill is better than the surgery. 

Its not the doctor and patient, but the govt deciding.  Just admit she was right KC. 

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2009, 09:26:39 AM »
So she is right - its essentially a death panel since Obama is saying that the govt will decide if a pain pill is better than the surgery. 

Its not the doctor and patient, but the govt deciding.  Just admit she was right KC. 

How is that right? Without being a Dr i don't think Obama would know what treatment would be appropriate it was an EXAMPLE he used.

Why are you not answering my question?
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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2009, 09:38:04 AM »
palin's just as bad as the rest of them... she just has poorer grammar skills.  You're lying to yourself if you think she's an independent thinker.  Her taking both positions on global warming, and defending the bailout Bill, are proof of that.


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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2009, 09:40:54 AM »
palin's just as bad as the rest of them... she just has poorer grammar skills.  You're lying to yourself if you think she's an independent thinker.  Her taking both positions on global warming, and defending the bailout Bill, are proof of that.



Based on this clip - what do you think 240?  Is the govt making the decisison or the doctor and patient?

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 09:41:45 AM »
Based on this clip - what do you think 240?  Is the govt making the decisison or the doctor and patient?

Why won't you answer my question 333?
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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2009, 09:42:11 AM »
For the 2387623489573th time, dude, I'm against the bill as well as the death panels which were started in 2008.

FFS dude, you want to argue shit I agreed with 2 months ago.  Thune 2012.  Boom :)

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2009, 09:46:46 AM »
Why won't you answer my question 333?

Which is what? 

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2009, 09:48:14 AM »
Of course Palin's right, Dems are just upset because she's using direct wording to make the point.

But, it seems that there is no mention now of the same panels for private insurance companies.  Under our current system, insurance companies deny coverage such as "exploratory surgery" and "experimental treatments" all the time.  They routinely make decisions that a person of such and such age will not be covered because the treatment has not been clearly proven to be helpful in a sufficient number of patients.

Rationing is inevitable - be it private insurers or the government, nobody is getting a blank check.

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2009, 09:48:20 AM »
I answered your question, will you answer mine? As a fiscally responsible person would you prefer medicare/mediaid went without any oversight into unnecessary treatments? You did post how much it is costing is this not a fiscally smart move? Or would you prefer it abolished?
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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2009, 10:01:17 AM »
I answered your question, will you answer mine? As a fiscally responsible person would you prefer medicare/mediaid went without any oversight into unnecessary treatments? You did post how much it is costing is this not a fiscally smart move? Or would you prefer it abolished?

I dont believe in medicaire to begin with, but that is another story. 

I think the issue should be between a dcotor and patient, not a death panel by the govt. 

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2009, 10:05:18 AM »
I dont believe in medicaire to begin with, but that is another story. 

I think the issue should be between a dcotor and patient, not a death panel by the govt. 

But wait a second.  You are against medicare so why do you care what happens with patients covered under it?  If you would prefer to have them not covered what does it matter TO YOU if there were 'death panels'? You are opposed to medicare so surely any means of bringing it's costs under control would suit you right?

BTW there is no death panel, there is no proof of it and it's purely speculation and misinterpretation on Palin's part. 
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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2009, 10:07:48 AM »
But wait a second.  You are against medicare so why do you care what happens with patients covered under it?  If you would prefer to have them not covered what does it matter TO YOU if there were 'death panels'? You are opposed to medicare so surely any means of bringing it's costs under control would suit you right?

BTW there is no death panel, there is no proof of it and it's purely speculation and misinterpretation on Palin's part. 

Because these programs are inherently money drains and the govts' sole response is going to be forcing rationing as these programs always fail.

However, we are slaves to this system via the tax code and there is no way out for millions of people. 

When the govt is the only option left, and it goes utterly bankrupt, as it is, than what?  Soylent Green you dope.  . 

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2009, 10:12:59 AM »
Because these programs are inherently money drains and the govts' sole response is going to be forcing rationing as these programs always fail.

However, we are slaves to this system via the tax code and there is no way out for millions of people. 

When the govt is the only option left, and it goes utterly bankrupt, as it is, than what?  Soylent Green you dope.  . 

But aren't they trying to stop it being a 'money drain' shouldn't you support that? Or any sort of fiscal responsibility to such a program?

You surely see the hypocrisy of your stance on this right? You're against medicare but when a democrat wants to bring fiscal responsibility to the program you are against that to? On what grounds exactly? That he's a democrat or that it's a fiscally responsible thing to do?
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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2009, 10:16:17 AM »
But aren't they trying to stop it being a 'money drain' shouldn't you support that? Or any sort of fiscal responsibility to such a program?

You surely see the hypocrisy of your stance on this right? You're against medicare but when a democrat wants to bring fiscal responsibility to the program you are against that to? On what grounds exactly? That he's a democrat or that it's a fiscally responsible thing to do?

Ha Ha!!!!!   Democrat and fiscal responsibility is an oxymoron. 

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2009, 10:18:19 AM »
Ha Ha!!!!!   Democrat and fiscal responsibility is an oxymoron. 

You're dodging the issue.  How can you be against something that you are for?  I.E. fiscal oversight? And how can you be against anything related to medicare when you are against medicare in the first place? Shouldn't you be happy if cuts were made to medicare considering your stance on it?
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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2009, 10:22:15 AM »
You're dodging the issue.  How can you be against something that you are for?  I.E. fiscal oversight? And how can you be against anything related to medicare when you are against medicare in the first place? Shouldn't you be happy if cuts were made to medicare considering your stance on it?

Hey fool, we already are supposed to have that and look at the result.  50 Billion in waste every year at least and 34 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities. 

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2009, 10:25:15 AM »
Hey fool, we already are supposed to have that and look at the result.  50 Billion in waste every year at least and 34 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities. 

But apparently you're against some sort of financial oversight committee according to what you've posted.  How can this be?
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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2009, 10:26:51 AM »
But apparently you're against some sort of financial oversight committee according to what you've posted.  How can this be?

Because I know just like the last empty promises, these too are nothing more than lies to sell to the ignorant public like yourself who accepts absolutely anything the govt tells them. 

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Re: Sarah Palin: I told you so on Death Panels!
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2009, 10:29:46 AM »
Because I know just like the last empty promises, these too are nothing more than lies to sell to the ignorant public like yourself who accepts absolutely anything the govt tells them. 

So you're saying an oversight committee will spend more on medicare?
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