Why must people insist on using GH?

[calfzilla]

When it obvioulsy makes bodybuilders look shittier. 

Pre GH era:


GH era: 

[no one]

When it obvioulsy makes bodybuilders look shittier. 

Pre GH era:


GH era: 

wrong.

demayo was GH era.

try it and you'll see why it works. adds a fullness and '3D look' that anabolics alone can't.

too much is not a good thing either. seems the guys who are winning the Nats, from wheelers time till now have always had very good physiques without looking too 'drugged up'.

maybe it's using GH for just a few years instead of decades is better for a cleaner, healthier look- build the muscle you want, without over doing it.

[timfogarty]

wrong.

demayo was GH era.

perhaps, but probably not while he was an amateur.  it wasn't widely available and still much too expensive.  but its really the combination of gh and insulin that causes the ugly physiques

[nolotil]

mainly the problem isnt due to gh its insulin in combination with GH

yes very high dose of gh can cause internal growth ::BUT ;; the pregnant look is from GH+insulin...the combination!! + not enough patience to build the muscle in stages

[NarcissisticDeity]

perhaps, but probably not while he was an amateur.  it wasn't widely available and still much too expensive.  but its really the combination of gh and insulin that causes the ugly physiques

Right , Bob Paris talked about the first time he used growth hormone in his book. In an interview Dorian was asked after seeing the black & whites pics of him at 269 pounds if that was the first time he tried GH , he said NO !

[JasonH]

Right , Bob Paris talked about the first time he used growth hormone in his book. In an interview Dorian was asked after seeing the black & whites pics of him at 269 pounds if that was the first time he tried GH , he said NO !

But by that was he impling that he'd been using it before then?

I've heard (from a very accurate source) that Dorian didn't start using GH until '93.

[timfogarty]

yes very high dose of gh can cause internal growth ::BUT ;; the pregnant look is from GH+insulin

internal organ growth is not really the issue people thought it was.  the pregnant look from gh and insulin is from visceral fat stored around the internal organs. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

But by that was he impling that he'd been using it before then?

I've heard (from a very accurate source) that Dorian didn't start using GH until '93.

he said it wasn't the first time he tried it.

[tendonitis]

Dorian has admitted to using GH in the late 80s.  There was an interview posted here a few years ago where he talked about it.

[Van_Bilderass]

internal organ growth is not really the issue people thought it was.  the pregnant look from gh and insulin is from visceral fat stored around the internal organs. 

Even this is just a theory for now in my opinion. I haven't seen any body scans of ripped to shreds pros where we can see this visceral fat. Off season, when fat, there's most likely tons of visceral fat. But when in shape? I don't know. And distension seems pretty permanent too, even if you stop using insulin. I doubt the fat should be impossible to burn off. It could be that once the abdominal wall is stretched out you'll always have the distension when relaxing the abs, worsened when doing heavy carb loads, etc.

[2Thick]

When it obvioulsy makes bodybuilders look shittier. 

Pre GH era:


GH era: 

You're comparing a guy with incredible genetics to another guy who not only has horrible genetics, but also obviously abused synthol/seo to a ridiculous degree, and probably numerous other drugs also in addition to gH.

[Topskin69]

Even this is just a theory for now in my opinion. I haven't seen any body scans of ripped to shreds pros where we can see this visceral fat. Off season, when fat, there's most likely tons of visceral fat. But when in shape? I don't know. And distension seems pretty permanent too, even if you stop using insulin. I doubt the fat should be impossible to burn off. It could be that once the abdominal wall is stretched out you'll always have the distension when relaxing the abs, worsened when doing heavy carb loads, etc.

The main culprit is Insulin IMO...high doses of GH compound this. I also think that overeating is a huge cause. Dieting now with GH/t3/clen/etc can allow one to be far more lazy in their approach then back in the Iron Age. Since you can eat far more calories while still dropping fat, I think that stomach never really has a reason to shrink back down from the off season.

Also I think that distention might be somewhat genetic... I didn't touch a steroid till I was 26...and even then I only dabbled in them for a about three months or so. Before that I was able to hold quite a bit of muscle for a natural...5'11 240ish while only being 12-13 percent bodyfat...but I have always had some stomach distension even at that level of fat. Its not too noticeable when I keep it in check, but to the untrained eye... it may look like I carry more fat then I actually do in street clothes. I have no idea why this is...but I can say that I am VERY carb sensitive...a little seems to go a long way with me...so there may be some insulin sensitivity issues at play.

[stormshadow]

When it obvioulsy makes bodybuilders look shittier.  

WRONG...

Arnold and the other top guys in the 70's were taking growth hormone obtained from human cadavers.

[stormshadow]

The main culprit is Insulin IMO...high doses of GH compound this. I also think that overeating is a huge cause. Dieting now with GH/t3/clen/etc can allow one to be far more lazy in their approach then back in the Iron Age. Since you can eat far more calories while still dropping fat, I think that stomach never really has a reason to shrink back down from the off season.

Also I think that distention might be somewhat genetic... I didn't touch a steroid till I was 26...and even then I only dabbled in them for a about three months or so. Before that I was able to hold quite a bit of muscle for a natural...5'11 240ish while only being 12-13 percent bodyfat...but I have always had some stomach distension even at that level of fat. Its not too noticeable when I keep it in check, but to the untrained eye... it may look like I carry more fat then I actually do in street clothes. I have no idea why this is...but I can say that I am VERY carb sensitive...a little seems to go a long way with me...so there may be some insulin sensitivity issues at play.

Distention comes from insulin.  I made this statement 8 years ago on Chad's board and he agreed with me.  Everyone was speculating it was GH.

[PJim]

Distention comes from insulin.  I made this statement 8 years ago on Chad's board and he agreed with me.  Everyone was speculating it was GH.

Definately insulin, my dad has diabetes and his daily injections have given him this distension.

[Topskin69]

Distention comes from insulin.  I made this statement 8 years ago on Chad's board and he agreed with me.  Everyone was speculating it was GH.

Well since I have said the same thing for a LONG time on here (that Insulin is the primary culprit), I'm not sure if you are trying to disagree with me or not.

Also Chad is hardly worth name dropping as a validation to anything...the man is a glorified babysitter/diuretic pusher, and has ruined just as many physiques, (if not more), then he has helped.

Sadly bodybuilders are lazy, and since they wont take the time to do research on their own, anyone can come at them trying to sound verbose, and in the process will wind up coming off as knowledgeable and impressive. Also when you are dealing with Genetic mutants like Ronnie Coleman, you could probably tell him to to eat 20 pounds of beets, and orange roughy a day, while mainlining x, and mountain dew, and still get great results.

[calfzilla]

Ok, if whether its GH Insulin or mom's meat loaf, why don't comptitive bodybuilders just stop doing it if it ruins their physiques? 

[timfogarty]

Arnold and the other top guys in the 70's were taking growth hormone obtained from human cadavers.

I don't believe it, but even if it were true, it could have only been a few IUs a week because there wasn't just that much around.   And who was paying for these drugs?  Therapeutic doses for children was $30k.

[stormshadow]

Well since I have said the same thing for a LONG time on here (that Insulin is the primary culprit), I'm not sure if you are trying to disagree with me or not.

Also Chad is hardly worth name dropping as a validation to anything...the man is a glorified babysitter/diuretic pusher, and has ruined just as many physiques, (if not more), then he has helped.

Sadly bodybuilders are lazy, and since they wont take the time to do research on their own, anyone can come at them trying to sound verbose, and will come off as knowledgeable and impressive, of course when you are dealing with Genetic mutants like Ronnie Coleman, you could probably tell him to to eat 20 pounds of beets, and orange roughy a day, while mainlining x, and mountain dew, and still get great results.

This was 8 years ago, Chad was the man back then -  he made Ronnie Mr. Olympia and the most shredded he has ever been.

Yes, he has destroyed many physiques since, but keep the time period in mind.  

[Van_Bilderass]

Distention comes from insulin.  I made this statement 8 years ago on Chad's board and he agreed with me.  Everyone was speculating it was GH.

Sure, but it's not like there's no bodybuilders who never did insulin with distention. There's a reason it's been called a growth gut - because a number of bodybuilders noticed this effect from using GH. And there's bodybuilders who had distention without doing GH either. There's also a reason why it's been called a roid gut - because a number of bodybuilders notice increased distention when on steroids. Then there's guys such as myself and Topskin who had some distention before ever doing any drugs.

So yes, I would agree that insulin is the main player... but not the only cause. Structure, genetics, overeating and lots of drugs all affect it. The more overstuffed you are with drugs, food and muscle the more likely it is you'll also have a big gut.

[Topskin69]

Ok, if whether its GH Insulin or mom's meat loaf, why don't comptitive bodybuilders just stop doing it if it ruins their physiques?  

Because sadly most bodybuilders work on a "monkey see monkey do" system. Instead of putting their own sense of craft/aesthetics/values into the way they approach their physique, presentation, they simply opt to do what everyone else says is the "in" thing. One person raises the bar/standard and the rest follow.

In the case of Slin... First there was Duchaine, which was the real pioneer of its use in Pro bodybuilding...Dorian was the first to really grasp its potential, he ran with it, but he was also pragmatic enough to make it work for him instead of be a detriment. Others followed suit, trying to chase the size game and be competitive with Dorian, and instead of succeeding, many ruined their physiques, or turned to synthol to compensate.

When I was last pushing in Venice...Slin was one of the most popular items on the black market...even by normal everyday lifters who had no competitive ambitions...simply because they heard others were doing it. The amount of stupidity, and lack of individuality in this subculture is staggering, but it is just the way it is.

[Topskin69]

Sure, but it's not like there's no bodybuilders who never did insulin with distention. There's a reason it's been called a growth gut - because a number of bodybuilders noticed this effect from using GH. And there's bodybuilders who had distention without doing GH either. There's also a reason why it's been called a roid gut - because a number of bodybuilders notice increased distention when on steroids. Then there's guys such as myself and Topskin who had some distention before ever doing any drugs.

So yes, I would agree that insulin is the main player... but not the only cause. Structure, genetics, overeating and lots of drugs all affect it. The more overstuffed you are with drugs, food and muscle the more likely it is you'll also have a big gut.

Well spoken...this is one of the most well rounded statements on the issue. Insulin is the main problem...but there are many other factors that play into it.

[HTexan]

 

[Spike]

has to be some kind of genetic factor involved cause I use 40iu slin ed and 10iu gh for about a yr and I did 4iu for like 3yr starting the day I turned 23 and didnt stop til 25 and only for like 3 months, I'm 27 now.......always did it with slin since day 1

typical for yrs was 20ius ed slin and 4-6iu gh (jinos then red tops)

and I am 276-280 and I have a gut but by no means a 'growth' gut but I diet soon so we'll see

[WillGrant]

has to be some kind of genetic factor involved cause I use 40iu slin ed and 10iu gh for about a yr and I did 4iu for like 3yr starting the day I turned 23 and didnt stop til 25 and only for like 3 months, I'm 27 now.......always did it with slin since day 1

typical for yrs was 20ius ed slin and 4-6iu gh (jinos then red tops)

and I am 276-280 and I have a gut but by no means a 'growth' gut but I diet soon so we'll see

How the hell do you afford that being a non pro    Id love to try it but having to use long term to really see the benifits and the cost really puts me off..

On that , why is it so dear