Ronnie Coleman 1999 photoshoot - simply amazing

[suckmymuscle]

what's up suckmymuscle? It's been a while since our exchanges in the Truce thread. The problem with Toxic's post is that he doesn't explain what criteria he's using (not that it matters). If he's referring to density, Ronnie at the 01 ASC was more conditioned than Dorian. If he's referring to size, Ronnie at the 03 Mr. Olympia was bigger. Even if you subtract non-lean mass, Ronnie still carried more muscle. So his comment about volume and mass is stupid. Anyway, hope everything is well with you and Happy New Year.

  Hi. Happy New Year to you, too. I certainly agree with you that Ronnie at the 2003 Olympia carried more lean muscle nass than Dorian despite also carrying more bodyfat and water. As for carrying more muscle per volume at the 2001 ASC, we have no way of knowing that, but Dorian was always complimented for his density, and even though Ronnie at the 2001 ASC was too, he was never compared favorably against Dorian in the density department. I gota be hobest with you. I've watched both the 2001 ASC video and Ronnie's 2001 ASC photo shoot and I felt he had a slight film of water. Maybe it was the lighting or poor oil, but this is what I sensed.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Hulkster]

"Two of probably hundreds"  That's a bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?  The two you posted are the only two I have ever seen of Dorian, and none of the Dorian fans post them repeatedly as you do your infamous 99 Ronnie pics.

hard to say. I have never taken the time to look, but there are quite a few out there.

eg:

[suckmymuscle]

 He didn't appear that way onstage, Hulkster, because I've seen pictures of him where he's far more underwhelming. We must assume that the less formidable versions of him are how he really looked, since I've never heard of photographers making their pictures look worse on purpose. Hope this helps.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

  This post was for you, Hulkster.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Hulkster]

Here's an example of Hulkser's antics taken from this very thread.....

it was not made by me, but posted to prove a point:

that ronnie's shape and detail overcomes dorian's 'graininess'

[Royal Lion]

Stop the video at 3:45.....and compare!  Nice try Hulkster 

[Royal Lion]

it was not made by me, but posted to prove a point:

that ronnie's shape and detail overcomes dorian's 'graininess'

Yeah, his detail looks outstanding in an obviously-sharpened pic 

[NeoSeminole]

I would agree that 2003 Ronnie had more mass than Dorian, or any other bodybuilder to step on stage for that matter. However, Ronnie's conditioning was off in order to carry all that size - although he dominated that year.  In 2001, Coleman's conditioning was arguably equal to Dorian's; however, the difference I see is that Dorian carried more size than Ronnie had in 2001 while at least obtaining the same level of conditioning.  I have argued all along that Dorian would give Ronnie trouble because of his ability to keep his conditioning while competing at a higher weight than Ronnie.  I think a 265lb yates would outsize a 250lb Coleman and would have as good or better conditioning.  Just my 2 cents...

I pretty much agree with you. The only versions of Ronnie which I think could beat Dorian are 01 ASC, 02 BFTO, and 03 Mr Olympia. I feel his best overall package was in 03. He was massive beyond belief (and this was after Dorian, mind you) and conditioned for 287 lbs.

[Hulkster]

He didn't appear that way onstage, Hulkster, because I've seen pictures of him where he's far more underwhelming.

but what you fail to realize is that screenshots will always look different than magazine shots, and the same exact thing occurs with everyone, including dorian, as it does with ronnie..

so your argument as it relates to dorian vs ronnie doesn't hold up.

screenshot to screenshot, ronnie crushes dorian's best.

this was covered in depth in the truce thread..

[Hulkster]

Yeah, his detail looks outstanding in an obviously-sharpened pic 

I suppose you are going to argue famous shots like this are 'sharpened' too?

 

[Royal Lion]

but what you fail to realize is that screenshots will always look different than magazine shots, and the same exact thing occurs with everyone, including dorian, as it does with ronnie..

so your argument as it relates to dorian vs ronnie doesn't hold up.

screenshot to screenshot, ronnie crushes dorian's best.

this was covered in depth in the truce thread..

uh, it is clear that the coloring has been altered in the Ronnie shot there...it is obviously sharpened.  Nonetheless, Dorian is more than holding his own in that comparison (yes I know Ronnie wins the MM pose).

[suckmymuscle]

what effect does the alteration have? does it make ronnie look more detailed? shapely? vascular? etc.?

  Yes, by enhancing the lines that represent the separations between muscles and bringing greater contrast, which enhances the appearance of veins.

 are we talking simply a ratio aspect here or what? every screenshot I have ever seen of that mm looks the same. other than slight colour differences depending on who took it..

  Different cameras taking the same picture under the same lights will give the same color to a picture. Different colors result from artificially changing contrast after the picture has been taken. I can change the colors of the same picture if you want and post them here, Hulkster.

eg: one is from ForcedReps, the other from Iceman.

two different people taking two shots independent of one another and the physique looks the same

  Sure, the shape and sizes of the physique is the same, but the contrast and degree of sharpness of separations and striations varies dramatically, and these are effects which different cameras do not produce.

so the guy argument fails miserably.

  You fail to realize just how sad you sound right now...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Royal Lion]

I suppose you are going to argue famous shots like this are 'sharpened' too?

 

Nope, these ones look legit. 

[Royal Lion]

Pause the video at 3:45 and then compare to the pic Hulkster always posts.  The difference is staggering.  What's funny is Hulkster posts the sharpened MM more than any other pics, lol.

[NeoSeminole]

what effect does the alteration have? does it make ronnie look more detailed? shapely? vascular? etc.?

I'm not an expert on photography but lower resolution and changing lighting (e.g. brightness & contrast) can exaggerate nuances like veins and separations. I bet a high definition pic of 99 Ronnie without any editing wouldn't look as impressive. On the same token, the same can be said about Dorian.

[Royal Lion]

I'm not an expert on photography but lower resolution and changing lighting (e.g. brightness and contrast) can exaggerate nuances like separations and striations.

Exactly...especially when arguing about conditioning, density etc.  I can see the argument for someone preferring Ronnie--he was awesome, and bb is totally subjective.  Here is one of my favorite shots of Ronnie from the 2001 A/C, he was undoubtedly bone dry.

However, Hulkster's consistent barrage of insults aimed at Dorian coupled with the same sharpened 99 photos gets really old.

[NeoSeminole]

Exactly...especially when arguing about conditioning, density etc.  I can see the argument for someone preferring Ronnie--he was awesome, and bb is totally subjective.  Here is one of my favorite shots of Ronnie from the 2001 A/C, he was undoubtedly bone dry.

that is also one of my fav pics of 01 ASC. Here's one I scanned which is bigger. Unfortunately, Flex magazine printed his pic right in the middle where the pages meet.



as for my all-time fav pics of Ronnie, I'd have to say 02 BFTO. Apparently there are unreleased pics of him which rival the new B&W shot of 95 Dorian that was featured on bb.com.

However, Hulkster's consistent barrage of insults aimed at Dorian coupled with the same sharpened 99 photos gets really old.

I give credit where credit is due, and Dorian was simply awesome. Hell, I payed tribute to him when I competed in Mr. Getbig II. Anyone who saw my pics knows what I'm talking about

[Royal Lion]

Compare 3:45 and 3:49 with the below photos.....

[Royal Lion]

that is also one of my fav pics of 01 ASC. Here's one I scanned which is bigger. Unfortunately, Flex magazine printed his pic right in the middle where the pages meet.



as for my all-time fav pics of Ronnie, I'd have to say 02 BFTO. Apparently there are unreleased pics of him which rival the new B&W shot of 95 Dorian that was featured on bb.com.









I give credit where credit is due, and Dorian was simply awesome. Hell, I payed tribute to him when I competed in Mr. Getbig II. Anyone who saw my pics knows what I'm talking about

I think the 02 BFTO Ronnie footage is probably the freakiest ever.  The 93 Dorian photoshoot is close; neither look human.  
I actually attended the 02 Mr. O.  Right before Ronnie took the stage they played the BFTO footage and the entire audience was just going crazy.  Unfortunately, he looked nowhere near that freaky when he took the stage in 02 and almost lost to a legless Levrone.  In 03, however, Ronnie was absolutely insane on the stage and wiped the floor with everyone.  Never had the chance to see Dorian in person.

Here is the 93 Dorian footage.  I couldn't find the actual 02 BFTO video footage of Ronnie  

[kevinf]

Coleman is the GOAT

[SomeKindofMonster]

Pause the video at 3:45 and then compare to the pic Hulkster always posts.  The difference is staggering.  What's funny is Hulkster posts the sharpened MM more than any other pics, lol.

The youtube video your using of Coleman there is terrible quality.
The actual video would make screencaps appear somewhat sharpened from the excellent lighting.
This video of Ruhl is about as close as to the actual video quality from the 1999 O you will see on youtube. Remember this is compressed video, so caps from the actual video would appear even sharper.

 

[TRIX]

All lighting. Ronnie owns.

[suckmymuscle]

I give credit where credit is due, and Dorian was simply awesome. Hell, I payed tribute to him when I competed in Mr. Getbig II. Anyone who saw my pics knows what I'm talking about

  Thanks for this. I have no problem with someone thinking that Ronnie is better than Dorian. Ronnie looked like a freak with a wasp waist at the 1998 Olympia and, myself, I had a hard time deciding who would win between him and Dorian.

  My problem with Hulkster, and the reason why I defended Dorian so tenaciously in the Truce Thread, is because he talks about Dorian as if he were barely worthy of competing at the NPC Nationals, let alone win the Olympia six times and five with straight-firsts scores. Dorian at his best would be Ronnie's most worthy competition, and even if Ronnie won, it would be a win by points and not a straight-firsts win. No one, even at their absolute best, can defeat an all-time best Dorian by straight-firsts win. No one.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Hulkster]

No one, even at their absolute best, can defeat an all-time best Dorian by straight-firsts win. No one.

ronnie could

[suckmymuscle]

ronnie could

  Same weight, Dorian has superior conditioning and better structure. It could go either way.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

I suppose you are going to argue famous shots like this are 'sharpened' too?

  No, they are not sharpened and Ronnie looks awesome. However, he does enjoy better lightning in these shots than Dorian had for most of his.

SUCKMYMUSCLE