Author Topic: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?  (Read 19052 times)

Azn Muscle

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2010, 06:24:50 PM »
And what martial art can defend themselves against a guy who is skilled in a gun or knife? That is a whole different ball game. We are talking about one on one no holds bar hand to hand combat.

Have you ever studied any other martial arts besides BJJ?  Because it doesn't sound like it. I think your views are a little biased.  Any (yes I said ANY) martial artist who has studied numerous arts can tell you there is some value to be learned in all forms.  

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2010, 06:27:08 PM »
BTW, Rickson Gracie never practice a kata a day in his life and had more street fights than everybody on this board put together. And this was in a vicious, violent culture in Brasil where you have a lot of nuts who will bite and gouge and whatever. He never lost.
I'm sure katas are a nice form of exercise but it is not necessary to be a good fighter. You'd be better off hitting the bag.

And what you are talking about is philosophy. Nothing to do with fighting. Brasil is a macho violent culture and fighting is NOT a last resort. You bad mouth a relative or give someone a dirty look or act like a jerk in a bar if there's a Jiu-Jitsu guy in there he'll kick your ass. There's a video on YouTube where Rickson walks up to the Luta Livre champ and slaps him across the face for mouthing off behind Rickson's back. They start going at it right there on the beach. And you never wanted to run into Ryan Gracie (who is now burning in hell).

In Brasil, it's all about fighting. Real fighting. That's why they're so tough and that's why they all train in Jiu-Jitsu.
[/b]



  Shit man!!! you really knows about Brazilians and bjj.  ;)
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Azn Muscle

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #102 on: January 14, 2010, 06:28:12 PM »


 So you're talking about the bouncer been lucky?  ::)
 Yes no man is invincible, perhaps you should tell that to "Rickson and Fedor".
 

What is it with you BJJ dudes?  Real world fighting is different from MMA fighting.  I REPEAT.  REAL WORLD FIGHTING IS DIFFERENT.  Yes I agree that on the ground, BJJ leads the way in the arts.  But what if you are at a bar and some guy is charging at you with a bat.  Are you thinking "I'm gonna take this guy down and put him in an arm-bar"?  I can tell you I'd rather be trained in almost any other art form besides BJJ when on my feet and being charged with a weapon.

I am trying to say that there is value to ALL martial arts.  None is superior to the other.  I don't get why you guys don't understand that.

I don't know about you guys, but I actually spend most of my life OUTSIDE THE OCTAGON.

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #103 on: January 14, 2010, 06:30:45 PM »
What is it with you BJJ dudes?  Real world fighting is different from MMA fighting.  I REPEAT.  REAL WORLD FIGHTING IS DIFFERENT.  Yes I agree that on the ground, BJJ leads the way in the arts.  But what if you are at a bar and some guy is charging at you with a bat.  Are you thinking "I'm gonna take this guy down and put him in an arm-bar"?  I can tell you I'd rather be trained in almost any other art form besides BJJ when on my feet and being charged with a weapon.

I am trying to say that there is value to ALL martial arts.  None is superior to the other.  I don't get why you guys don't understand that.

I don't know about you guys, but I actually spend most of my life OUTSIDE THE OCTAGON.

It's a religious cult.

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2010, 06:31:06 PM »
What is it with you BJJ dudes?  Real world fighting is different from MMA fighting.  I REPEAT.  REAL WORLD FIGHTING IS DIFFERENT.  Yes I agree that on the ground, BJJ leads the way in the arts.  But what if you are at a bar and some guy is charging at you with a bat.  Are you thinking "I'm gonna take this guy down and put him in an arm-bar"?  I can tell you I'd rather be trained in almost any other art form besides BJJ when on my feet and being charged with a weapon.

I am trying to say that there is value to ALL martial arts.  None is superior to the other.  I don't get why you guys don't understand that.


 Let's do like this go to Brazil, and you will see bjj on the streets.
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drkaje

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #105 on: January 14, 2010, 06:32:14 PM »

 Let's do like this go to Brazil, and you will see bjj on the streets.

I only wanna see big-butted bitches if we go to Brazil, Man!!

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #106 on: January 14, 2010, 06:33:36 PM »
I only wanna see big-butted bitches if we go to Brazil, Man!!


 You can do that.
 But..watch out for the pitboys. ;)
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che

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #107 on: January 14, 2010, 06:47:19 PM »


I am trying to say that there is value to ALL martial arts.  None is superior to the other.  I don't get why you guys don't understand that.



I agree

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2010, 06:49:37 PM »
I agree


 Booth of you UFC 1.2. and 3 explain that to me.
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pellius

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #109 on: January 14, 2010, 06:57:15 PM »
Have you ever studied any other martial arts besides BJJ?  Because it doesn't sound like it. I think your views are a little biased.  Any (yes I said ANY) martial artist who has studied numerous arts can tell you there is some value to be learned in all forms.  

Brah, I first started training in Aikido at 8 years old, I'm over forty now. I went through the whole Judo, Karate, tae kwon do  thing. I remember when Hapikdo was the bomb because of the movie Billy Jack and so I went into that. And then found a guy in Hawaii who taught a modified version of Wing Chun. His name was James Demile was a student of Bruce Lee. I chose his school because at the time they were the only ones doing full contact training. I didn't start BJJ until I was almost 30 and that's only because a friend of mine I use to tool started schooling me. I never had any interest in rolling around on the ground and always felt I could keep my opponent from taking me down with my strikes. I was wrong.

The reason I think Jiu-Jitus is best for the average guy is that one you don't have to have great athletic skills as you would in other martial arts especially one's that require kicks. Also, in most street fights things get wild very quickly where you can't set up your opponent for a nice clean strike. You clinch and get tangled up and often fall to the ground. But this is the world of Jiu-Jitsu.

But, as I've said before, in high level combat, Jiu-Jitsu is not enough. Fighters are familiar with it and know how to defend. Their stand up game sucks and if Rickson were fighting today with that chin up leading stomp kick attack he would get KTFO. He'd have to modify his game to go up against todays fighters.

Friend, as I read your posts I see you are not a bad guy. You seem very well thought out and level headed. I don't see you as the type to walk around with a tough guy attitude. I know I came off a bit heated but it's more passion. A lot of today's TMA training is worse than worthless because they give a person a feeling of false confidence. The nonsense they are being taught will get them hurt or killed because they really believe they can defend themselves. But so much of that has changed because of Rorion Gracie, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and MMA. He changed the world of martial arts. And I don't even care much for Rorion personally. But I can't deny the impact that he made. People are now seeing what fights are like. It's not like in the movies where everything is so impressive with the hero sending guys flying left and right. Fighting is a very brutal violent endeavor where people can really get hurt.  

Azn Muscle

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #110 on: January 14, 2010, 06:58:29 PM »

 Booth of you UFC 1.2. and 3 explain that to me.

Unfortunately I don't live life in an "Octagon" where there are rules.  I also don't live on the ghettos of Brazil, where apparently everyone on the streets has got someone in an arm bar or a choke hold.

I do live in the real world though.  Here people don't play fair or by rules.  There are weapons, sometimes we will be outnumbered.  Sometimes my opponents will hit me in the groin, bite my ear off, or rip my eyes out.


Azn Muscle

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #111 on: January 14, 2010, 07:01:11 PM »
Brah, I first started training in Aikido at 8 years old, I'm over forty now. I went through the whole Judo, Karate, tae kwon do  thing. I remember when Hapikdo was the bomb because of the movie Billy Jack and so I went into that. And then found a guy in Hawaii who taught a modified version of Wing Chun. His name was James Demile was a student of Bruce Lee. I chose his school because at the time they were the only ones doing full contact training. I didn't start BJJ until I was almost 30 and that's only because a friend of mine I use to tool started schooling me. I never had any interest in rolling around on the ground and always felt I could keep my opponent from taking me down with my strikes. I was wrong.

The reason I think Jiu-Jitus is best for the average guy is that one you don't have to have great athletic skills as you would in other martial arts especially one's that require kicks. Also, in most street fights things get wild very quickly where you can't set up your opponent for a nice clean strike. You clinch and get tangled up and often fall to the ground. But this is the world of Jiu-Jitsu.

But, as I've said before, in high level combat, Jiu-Jitsu is not enough. Fighters are familiar with it and know how to defend. Their stand up game sucks and if Rickson were fighting today with that chin up leading stomp kick attack he would get KTFO. He'd have to modify his game to go up against todays fighters.

Friend, as I read your posts I see you are not a bad guy. You seem very well thought out and level headed. I don't see you as the type to walk around with a tough guy attitude. I know I came off a bit heated but it's more passion. A lot of today's TMA training is worse than worthless because they give a person a feeling of false confidence. The nonsense they are being taught will get them hurt or killed because they really believe they can defend themselves. But so much of that has changed because of Rorion Gracie, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and MMA. He changed the world of martial arts. And I don't even care much for Rorion personally. But I can't deny the impact that he made. People are now seeing what fights are like. It's not like in the movies where everything is so impressive with the hero sending guys flying left and right. Fighting is a very brutal violent endeavor where people can really get hurt.  

Yes I agree that that the Gracies have contributed much to Martial Arts.  And I also agree that many people who study have a false sense of confidence and have been untested.  

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #112 on: January 14, 2010, 07:01:42 PM »

 Booth of you UFC 1.2. and 3 explain that to me.

Chuck Lidell was a champion for a long time with average  striking and good take down defense (no BJJ ).
Forrest Griffin was a UFC champion with average striking , average BJJ and average wrestling .
Fedor  beat the shit out of Nogueira twice without BJJ.
I can give 1000 examples
Bjj is a great martial art but  there are many other arts just as effective in a fight.

pellius

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #113 on: January 14, 2010, 07:05:05 PM »
What is it with you BJJ dudes?  Real world fighting is different from MMA fighting.  I REPEAT.  REAL WORLD FIGHTING IS DIFFERENT.  Yes I agree that on the ground, BJJ leads the way in the arts.  But what if you are at a bar and some guy is charging at you with a bat.  Are you thinking "I'm gonna take this guy down and put him in an arm-bar"?  I can tell you I'd rather be trained in almost any other art form besides BJJ when on my feet and being charged with a weapon.

I am trying to say that there is value to ALL martial arts.  None is superior to the other.  I don't get why you guys don't understand that.

I don't know about you guys, but I actually spend most of my life OUTSIDE THE OCTAGON.

My friend, BJJ is real world fighting. That's what made it different form Japanese. Remember it was Maeda who brought Jiu-Jitsu to Brasil but it was the Gracies that turned it more into a street fighting art. Because that is what you do in Brasil. You fight in the street. You grow up fighting. It is part of the culture.

GJJ is right. You spend some time in Brasil and you will see how important street fighting is in a violent, macho, 3rd world country.

You ever watch how an American fighter talks about his upcoming fight? All yelling and screaming and how he's going to do this and that. Compare that with an Anderson Silva. Very calm and composed. Why? Silva grew up in Brasil. That means he grew up fighting. There's no need for yelling and screaming and psyching out your opponent. That guy has been in so many fights that for him it's just another day at the office.

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #114 on: January 14, 2010, 07:06:27 PM »
Unfortunately I don't live life in an "Octagon" where there are rules.  I also don't live on the ghettos of Brazil, where apparently everyone on the streets has got someone in an arm bar or a choke hold.

I do live in the real world though.  Here people don't play fair or by rules.  There are weapons, sometimes we will be outnumbered.  Sometimes my opponents will hit me in the groin, bite my ear off, or rip my eyes out.




 And what do you think Brazil is? Wonderland?
 
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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #115 on: January 14, 2010, 07:06:46 PM »
My friend, BJJ is real world fighting. That's what made it different form Japanese. Remember it was Maeda who brought Jiu-Jitsu to Brasil but it was the Gracies that turned it more into a street fighting art. Because that is what you do in Brasil. You fight in the street. You grow up fighting. It is part of the culture.

GJJ is right. You spend some time in Brasil and you will see how important street fighting is in a violent, macho, 3rd world country.

You ever watch how an American fighter talks about his upcoming fight? All yelling and screaming and how he's going to do this and that. Compare that with an Anderson Silva. Very calm and composed. Why? Silva grew up in Brasil. That means he grew up fighting. There's no need for yelling and screaming and psyching out your opponent. That guy has been in so many fights that for him it's just another day at the office.

Dude ,WTF are you talking about

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #116 on: January 14, 2010, 07:08:35 PM »
Unfortunately I don't live life in an "Octagon" where there are rules.  I also don't live on the ghettos of Brazil, where apparently everyone on the streets has got someone in an arm bar or a choke hold.

I do live in the real world though.  Here people don't play fair or by rules.  There are weapons, sometimes we will be outnumbered.  Sometimes my opponents will hit me in the groin, bite my ear off, or rip my eyes out.



yep ain't it funny how these guys set up rules...or perfect scenarios like how he said I'm talkin about one on one no holds bared...yea OK well in the real world its very rarely one on one....lets see you work your ju jitsu when it's 2 on one or worse....then you'll be wishing you trained more boxing & muy thai
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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #117 on: January 14, 2010, 07:10:10 PM »
Chuck Lidell was a champion for a long time with average  striking and good take down defense (no BJJ ).
Forrest Griffin was a UFC champion with average striking , average BJJ and average wrestling .
Fedor  beat the shit out of Nogueira twice without BJJ.
I can give 1000 examples
Bjj is a great martial art but  there are many other arts just as effective in a fight.


All true but they are all skilled in BJJ. BJ Penn, probably the best Jiu-Jitsu player in the UFC wins most of his fights standing up with strikes. But he knows how to defend takedowns and get out of submissions. Forrest Griffin is a great BJJ fighter as is Fedor, who trained primarily as a ground fighter (Sambo), Chuck was a college wrestler and trains BJJ regularly.

The game has evolved and it's going back to stand up but that's because people know Jiu-Jitus and how to defend. As I said before, if you are not skilled in Jiu-Jitsu you will have no chance.

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #118 on: January 14, 2010, 07:12:25 PM »
Anyway, it's been fun. Got to go train. Time to get beat up by the young guns.

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #119 on: January 14, 2010, 07:18:23 PM »

The game has evolved and it's going back to stand up but that's because people know Jiu-Jitus and how to defend.

So striking is better than JJ  ;D

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2010, 07:22:15 PM »
The UFC was created to measure which style would be superior.
 That was what the Gracies want, style vs style.
 As you can see in the beginning of the  UFC BJJ prove to be superior.
 Than the sport "evolved " and became MMA.

 Yes... Traditional Martial Arts rule.


With all due respect, the Gracies vanished when big strong wrestlers, who knew how to punch as opposed to slap appeared. Where was Royce when Frye , Coleman and Kerr apeared?

Also Rorion refused to invite Alexander Karelin to participate as he knew he could beat Royce and Rickson at the same time. UFC 1 was set up to put Royce against stand up fighters with no ground experience. They put Severn in the other division so they would only meet in the finals. Unfortunatly Dan didnt know how to punch and his slaps were ineffective against Royce. Had it been  Frye, COleman, or Kerr Royce would have been beaten to a bloody pulp.



The Gracies did prove the BJJ was very effective but hardly proved it was better than good old freestyle or Greco Roman wrestling. The first UFC's showed that anyone with a decent BJJ or wrestling pedigree could dominat those only trained in TMA.
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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2010, 07:48:14 PM »

With all due respect, the Gracies vanished when big strong wrestlers, who knew how to punch as opposed to slap appeared. Where was Royce when Frye , Coleman and Kerr apeared?

Also Rorion refused to invite Alexander Karelin to participate as he knew he could beat Royce and Rickson at the same time. UFC 1 was set up to put Royce against stand up fighters with no ground experience. They put Severn in the other division so they would only meet in the finals. Unfortunatly Dan didnt know how to punch and his slaps were ineffective against Royce. Had it been  Frye, COleman, or Kerr Royce would have been beaten to a bloody pulp.



The Gracies did prove the BJJ was very effective but hardly proved it was better than good old freestyle or Greco Roman wrestling. The first UFC's showed that anyone with a decent BJJ or wrestling pedigree could dominat those only trained in TMA.


 Well !!! let's start like this Royce had to beat 3 guys " 3 different opponents" in one night to be champion.
 UFC today  you just have to fight 1 fight.
 My point here is BJJ and not the Gracies.
 BJJ till today prove to be better.

 Btw: In 1997 The Gracies went to Japan.
 Two years latter the Almighty Coleman was defeated by Rickson's bitch.
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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #122 on: January 15, 2010, 12:30:57 AM »
anyone ever heard of a great man called the gracie hunter? 

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #123 on: January 15, 2010, 12:45:18 AM »
Dude ,WTF are you talking about

What aren't you understanding?
Q

Kwon

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Re: Traditional Asian Martial Arts or MMA?
« Reply #124 on: January 15, 2010, 12:54:42 AM »
Make a comparison with someone in his weightclass in the late 60's.

Q