Author Topic: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....  (Read 1021 times)

SAMSON123

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And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« on: January 13, 2010, 09:42:01 PM »
Bankers apologize for actions that led to crisis

Big bankers apologize for risky behavior that led to financial crisis, say it seemed right

         

AP - Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Lloyd Blankfein, left, gestures on Capitol Hill in Washington, ...

January 13, 2010, 9:03 pm EST

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Challenged by a skeptical special commission, top Wall Street bankers apologized Wednesday for risky behavior that led to the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. But they still declared it seemed appropriate at the time.

The bankers -- whose companies collectively received more than $100 billion in taxpayer assistance to weather the crisis -- offered no regrets for executive pay that is now likely to increase as a result of their survival. They did say they are correcting some compensation practices that could lead to excessive risk-taking.

The tension at the first hearing of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission was evident from the outset.

"People are angry," commission Chairman Phil Angelides said. Reports of "record profits and bonuses in the wake of receiving trillions of dollars in government assistance while so many families are struggling to stay afloat has only heightened the sense of confusion," he said.

Lloyd Blankfein, the chief executive of Goldman Sachs, took the brunt of the questions, especially on his firm's practice of selling mortgage-backed securities and then betting against them.

"I'm just going to be blunt with you," Angelides told him. "It sounds to me a little bit like selling a car with faulty brakes and then buying an insurance policy on the buyer of those cars."

Blankfein replied: "I do think the behavior is improper. We regret the consequence that people have lost money in it." Later, though, he defended the firm's actions as "exercises in risk management."

In a moment of self-analysis, Blankfein said the world of high-finance simply rationalized its way into risky transactions. Summarizing the thinking in the industry at the time, he said: "Gosh, the world is getting wealthier. Technology has done things. ... These businesses are going to do well."

"You talked yourself into a place of complacency," he concluded.

The panel began its yearlong inquiry amid rising public fury over bailouts and bankers' pay.

"We understand the anger felt by many citizens," said Brian Moynihan, chief executive and president of Bank of America. "We are grateful for the taxpayer assistance we have received."

"Over the course of the crisis, we as an industry caused a lot of damage," Moynihan said.

With Bank of America having repaid its bailout money, he said "the vast majority of our employees played no role in the economic crisis" and do not deserve to be penalized with lower compensation. Moynihan said compensation levels will be higher next year than they were in 2008 -- but not at levels reached before the financial meltdown.

Jamie Dimon, chief executive of JPMorgan Chase & Co., said most of his employees took "significant cuts in compensation" in 2008. He said his company would continue to pay people in a "responsible and disciplined manner" to attract and retain top talent.

Still, Dimon said, "We did make mistakes and there were things we could have done better."

John Mack, chairman of Morgan Stanley, said the crisis was "a powerful wake-up call for this firm." He said he didn't take a bonus in 2009 and his bank has overhauled its compensation practices to discourage "excessive risk-taking."

The other executives also said their companies had tightened bonus policies, including provisions to "claw back" some of the money when performance falters.

Outside experts say the banks' changes to executive compensation move them in the right direction, effectively tying pay to long-term performance. Giving more pay in long-term stock and allowing take-backs in extreme cases should discourage excess risk, said Jeff Vistithpanich, principal at Johnson & Associates, a New York financial services consulting firm.

But he said that won't quell public outrage.

"Whether Lloyd Blankfein gets $50 million in cash or stock or paper, the fury will be there, the anger and scrutiny will be there," Vistithpanich said. "There's going to be a firestorm either way."

John Taylor, head of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, a group that promotes affordable housing, said that if bankers missed multiple indicators that a housing crisis was upon them, "then their spirited defense of their employees falls flat."

"Based on what we heard today," Taylor said, "they should be firing people, not giving them bonuses."

The four bankers represent institutions that collectively received more than $90 billion in direct government assistance from the $700 billion federal bank bailout and availed themselves of billions more from the Federal Reserve. Goldman Sachs received an additional $12.9 billion in bailout money designated to rescue insurer American International Group.

At the White House, press secretary Robert Gibbs said that President Barack Obama on Thursday will outline his plan to make sure taxpayers are able to recoup the money they are owed from the bailouts. The president is expected to announce a new fee on the country's biggest financial firms to recover up to $120 billion.

Of the bankers' testimony, Gibbs said, "It would seem to me that apology would be the least of what anybody could expect." He said Wall Street officials need to show common sense.

The witnesses said they supported tighter oversight, but warned against going too far. Congress is considering limiting the size of financial companies or breaking up companies whose failure could collapse the whole financial system.

The commission's vice chairman, former Rep. Bill Thomas, R-Calif., said the inquiry would try "to get to the bottom of what happened and explain it in a way that the American people can understand."

Thomas, a former chairman of the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said one important question is, "If you knew then what you do now, what would you have done differently?"

Dimon said a crucial blunder was "how we just missed that housing prices don't go up forever." Added Mack: "We did eat our cooking and we choked on it."
C

BM OUT

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2010, 06:33:20 AM »
When will Chris Dodd and Barney Frank apologise for causing the housing crisis by pushing the community reinvestment act.THEY are the real criminals here.

Soul Crusher

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2010, 06:36:40 AM »
When will Chris Dodd and Barney Frank apologise for causing the housing crisis by pushing the community reinvestment act.THEY are the real criminals here.

And Rubin, Geither, Summers, Greenspan, Clinton Bush, etc.   

Sir Humphrey

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2010, 06:39:29 AM »
When will Chris Dodd and Barney Frank apologise for causing the housing crisis by pushing the community reinvestment act.THEY are the real criminals here.

Billy, if you were made a "one-man congress" for a day, with the ability to cancel or change existing U.S. federal laws, what would you change or cancel? And why?  :P

Remember, you only have one day.  :P :P

Soul Crusher

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2010, 06:47:41 AM »
Billy, if you were made a "one-man congress" for a day, with the ability to cancel or change existing U.S. federal laws, what would you change or cancel? And why?  :P

Remember, you only have one day.  :P :P

1.  Term Limits

2.  Govt cant spend any more in one year than what they collected in tax receipets the year before unless in case of war or natural disaster.

3.  Back to a Gold Standard

4.  End the Fed. 

5.  Defund EPA, DEA, ATF, DOE, DHS

6.  No post-office pensions or free health care for Congressmen or Senators

7.  National CCW

8.  End the Income tax and have a national sales tax. 

Sir Humphrey

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2010, 07:00:18 AM »
1.  Term Limits

2.  Govt cant spend any more in one year than what they collected in tax receipets the year before unless in case of war or natural disaster.

3.  Back to a Gold Standard

4.  End the Fed. 

5.  Defund EPA, DEA, ATF, DOE, DHS

6.  No post-office pensions or free health care for Congressmen or Senators

7.  National CCW

8.  End the Income tax and have a national sales tax. 

You're not Billy.  :P

Good list though.

BM OUT

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2010, 07:24:58 AM »
You're not Billy.  :P

Good list though.

Actually that list is about perfect except the very first thing Id do is legalise ALL drugs and immediately release from prison anyone there that is in there for drug charges so we can start putting violent offenders behind bars for the entire length of their sentence.

Sir Humphrey

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 07:34:47 AM »
Actually that list is about perfect except the very first thing Id do is legalise ALL drugs and immediately release from prison anyone there that is in there for drug charges so we can start putting violent offenders behind bars for the entire length of their sentence.

I can see completely legalizing performance-enhancing drugs (steroids, GH, etc) and legalizing some rec drugs (pot). Would you attempt to control hard drugs like cocaine at all? Or legalize them completely?

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2010, 07:58:51 AM »
I can see completely legalizing performance-enhancing drugs (steroids, GH, etc) and legalizing some rec drugs (pot). Would you attempt to control hard drugs like cocaine at all? Or legalize them completely?

All drugs.Grown people should have the right to do what they want without the filthy government sticking their nose in.If I want to shoot heroin I should be allowed.If you commit a crime because of your addiction,jails will be open and your sentence will be EXTREME.

Sir Humphrey

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 08:16:10 AM »
All drugs.Grown people should have the right to do what they want without the filthy government sticking their nose in.If I want to shoot heroin I should be allowed.If you commit a crime because of your addiction,jails will be open and your sentence will be EXTREME.

I never thought I'd agree with you, Billy.  :P

The Showstoppa

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2010, 08:23:44 AM »
I hear the whole "legalize all drugs" argument, and understand the basis, but here is the problem with it.....drugs aren't taken in a vacuum.   If anybody thinks drug use only affects the user is very naive.  How do we deal with their children, etc.... as they WILL grow-up to most likely be a burden on society?  Its not such a cut and dried simple solution.

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2010, 08:31:47 AM »
I hear the whole "legalize all drugs" argument, and understand the basis, but here is the problem with it.....drugs aren't taken in a vacuum.   If anybody thinks drug use only affects the user is very naive.  How do we deal with their children, etc.... as they WILL grow-up to most likely be a burden on society?  Its not such a cut and dried simple solution.

Yeah,and we have millions of Catholic parents who expose their kids to child molesting priests.Other parents ignore their kids completely without ever using drugs.Christ,my kid has played baseball since he was 5,Ive never missed a game,other kids parents didnt go to one.What about parents that drink,or watch pornography,or gamble.We need to stop looking to the government to help raise the kids.Drugs are one thing that can effect a child,but there are a million other things that effect them just as much.Id rather have a father that sniffs cocain then one that called me "stupid" or "useless".

SAMSON123

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2010, 11:36:12 AM »
The topic of this thread was and is THE BANKERS SAYING SORRY...Not what drugs should or shouldn't be legalized.

I told you all in the thread about Marijuana shops being more popular in Colorado that coffee shops that VERY SOON ALL DRUGS WILL BE LEGALIZED IN AMERICA...Just be patient
C

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 11:37:46 AM »
The topic of this thread was and is THE BANKERS SAYING SORRY...Not what drugs should or shouldn't be legalized.

I told you all in the thread about Marijuana shops being more popular in Colorado that coffee shops that VERY SOON ALL DRUGS WILL BE LEGALIZED IN AMERICA...Just be patient

Option D

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2010, 11:42:24 AM »
And Rubin, Geither, Summers, Greenspan, Clinton Bush, etc.   


WOAH WOAH WOAH ...3333 you went a bit too far..billy aint cosignin that...cant throw bush in there with those libs...

Soul Crusher

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2010, 11:44:50 AM »

WOAH WOAH WOAH ...3333 you went a bit too far..billy aint cosignin that...cant throw bush in there with those libs...

Why not?  I have never knee padded for bush and cant stand that POFS.  You think I like Bush?  Show me where I have shilled for him? 

He squandered 8 years of fiscal irresponsibility. 

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2010, 11:53:43 AM »

WOAH WOAH WOAH ...3333 you went a bit too far..billy aint cosignin that...cant throw bush in there with those libs...

I dont like Bush although HE WAS much better then Hussein Obama.

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2010, 11:54:43 AM »
I dont like Bush although HE WAS much better then Hussein Obama.

What was the economic situation under clinton..What did Bush Inherit as a new president...what was it when he left?

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2010, 11:55:02 AM »
1.  Term Limits

2.  Govt cant spend any more in one year than what they collected in tax receipets the year before unless in case of war or natural disaster.

3.  Back to a Gold Standard

4.  End the Fed. 

5.  Defund EPA, DEA, ATF, DOE, DHS

6.  No post-office pensions or free health care for Congressmen or Senators

7.  National CCW

8.  End the Income tax and have a national sales tax. 

What is CCW?

Excellent list except #8 (and maybe #7 depending on what that means).   #8 is a bad idea and is not the "fair tax" that some people suggest it is.  It would actually exacerbate business cycle fluctuations and disproportionately affect lower income people b/c the amount spent on taxes would be a higher "real" rate relative to their disposable income (even though nominal rate would be the same).   A progressive income tax is best because it counters fluctuations in the business cycle.  The problem with our CURRENT progressive tax is that it's been destroyed by lobbyists/special interests and has basically been ass raped by congress and the IRS over the years.  It's not really a progressive structure at all anymore.  You have poor people paying nothing thanks to handouts/subsidies/etc, and therefore no incentive to better themselves, you got the wealthy with countless loopholes getting away with highway robbery and virtually paying a fraction of the tax they should be paying, and then the middle class taking it up the ass footing the bill for almost everything, which is ruining savings and investment in new business and job growth, and destroying the American dream.  Problem is, the tax system, as it currently stands, has no chance of improving or changing because the politicians making the laws are servants of the corportate elite who are dictating policy, and we are all at it's mercy.
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Soul Crusher

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Re: And Sadly Some Idiots Will Accept It....
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2010, 11:57:08 AM »
What is CCW?

Excellent list except #8 (and maybe #7 depending on what that means).   #8 is a bad idea and is not the "fair tax" that some people suggest it is.  It would actually exacerbate business cycle fluctuations and disproportionately affect lower income people b/c the amount spent on taxes would be a higher "real" rate relative to their disposable income (even though nominal rate would be the same).   A progressive income tax is best because it counters fluctuations in the business cycle.  The problem with our CURRENT progressive tax is that it's been destroyed by lobbyists/special interests and has basically been ass raped by congress and the IRS over the years.  It's not really a progressive structure at all anymore.  You have poor people paying nothing thanks to handouts/subsidies/etc, and therefore no incentive to better themselves, you got the wealthy with countless loopholes getting away with highway robbery and virtually paying a fraction of the tax they should be paying, and then the middle class taking it up the ass footing the bill for almost everything, which is ruining savings and investment in new business and job growth, and destroying the American dream.  Problem is, the tax system, as it currently stands, has no chance of improving or changing because the politicians making the laws are servants of the corportate elite who are dictating policy, and we are all at it's mercy.

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