Author Topic: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!  (Read 3535 times)

Soul Crusher

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ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« on: January 21, 2010, 10:29:29 AM »
Pelosi: House lacks votes to OK Senate health bill
________________________ ________________________ ______

By ALAN FRAM, Associated Press Writer Alan Fram, Associated Press Writer – 20 mins ago

WASHINGTON – Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday that she lacks the votes to quickly move the Senate's sweeping health overhaul bill through the House, a potentially devastating blow to President Barack Obama's signature issue.

Pelosi, D-Calif., made the comment to reporters after House Democrats held a closed-door meeting at which participants vented frustration with the Senate's massive version of the legislation.

Her concession meant there was little hope for a White House-backed plan to quickly push the Senate-approved health bill through the House, followed by a separate measure making changes sought by House members, such as easing the Senate's tax on higher-cost health plans. Such an approach would be "problematic," she said, though Democrats haven't completely ruled out pursuing it.

"In its present form without any changes I don't think it's possible to pass the Senate bill in the House," Pelosi said, adding, "I don't see the votes for it at this time."

Pelosi also signaled that advancing health legislation through Congress will likely be a lengthy process — despite Democrats' desire for a quick election-year pivot to address jobs and the economy, which polls show are the public's top concern.

"We're not in a big rush" on health care, Pelosi said. "Pause, reflect."

Two days after the stunning special election in Massachusetts — where Republicans captured the Senate seat held for decades by the late Edward Kennedy — many House Democrats said one lesson was that the public wanted a more modest approach to overhauling the health care system. Several said Democrats should refocus the legislation onto popular proposals like barring insurance companies from denying coverage to sick people.

"The mega bills are dead," said Rep. Michael Arcuri, D-N.Y. "If we didn't see what happened Tuesday night, we have blinkers on."

Rep. Jose Serrano, D-N.Y., said that ideally, Democrats would like to address a whole range of problems, including giving more people coverage, helping them pay for it and curbing the growth of medical costs.

"We're obviously finding out we don't have an ideal world, so why not deal with that which we can get done," Serrano said.

By all accounts, Democrats have made no final decision on their options, which included breaking the health legislation into several smaller bills. But with Republican Scott Brown's Massachusetts victory denying Democrats the 60 Senate votes they need to kill Republican delaying tactics, Obama and others were talking about legislation that would attract broad support.

"I would advise that we try to move quickly to coalesce around those elements of the package that people agree on," Obama said Tuesday in an interview with ABC News.

"We know that we need insurance reform, that the health insurance companies are taking advantage of people. We know that we have to have some form of cost containment because if we don't then our budgets are going to blow up. And we know that small businesses are going to need help," he said.

In a bid for GOP support, participants suggested other elements that could be added. These included allowing insurance companies to sell policies across state lines, according to Rep. Timothy Walz, D-Minn.

Sen. John McCain rejected the idea of a slimmed-down version of the current legislation. "We are more than happy to sit down and start over," the Arizona Republican said Thursday on CBS' "Early Show." "Not scale back, but start over in a true negotiating process, rather than the Democrats going back to try to pick off one or two Republicans."

Nearly as shaken by the Massachusetts vote were health care provider groups that have supported the Democratic effort, such as drug makers, hospitals and doctors.

While few were making public statements, industry groups that stood to gain millions of newly insured customers were worried that such potential gains were in jeopardy, according to lobbyists speaking on condition of anonymity to describe confidential conversations.

Industry groups also were worried that without a health care bill, some of the savings several of them had agreed to contribute — such as lower Medicare reimbursements — might be used for separate congressional efforts this year to reduce the soaring deficit.

Underscoring their sense that the Massachusetts vote put them atop a political wave, Republicans were e-mailing fundraising solicitations on Wednesday to supporters.

"Democrats nationwide should be on notice: Voters are looking for checks-and-balances, and they are prepared to hold the party in power responsible for their reckless spending and out-of-touch agenda in Washington," wrote Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, who heads the Senate GOP's campaign arm.

Associated Press writers Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar, Erica Werner and Ann Sanner contributed to this re

________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _-

DeathCare down - Cap & Trade next. 

The True Adonis

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 10:40:37 AM »
Good.  I knew my true Progressives in the House hated both of these bills. 

kcballer

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 10:42:16 AM »
The Dems only have themselves to blame.  They should have passed through the public option and a medicare reform to include 55 year olds and up.  They reep what they sow - indecision = anger by the liberal base.  Pandering to insurance companies = the same thing.  

I think it'd be a shame to kill cap and trade, however, some provisions must be made to change certain things about the bill and make it a better bill for the environment.  The cap needs to be lower first off.  I think it might have been posted here but there was an article about how it wasn't a good bill in it's current form.  
Abandon every hope...

dario73

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2010, 10:45:42 AM »
"We're not in a big rush" on health care, Pelosi said. "Pause, reflect."

Din't she imply a few days ago that Health Care would still pass? I bet she was one of those Dems that came up with the ideas of getting it to the President's desk before Brown even took his seat or delaying Brown's confirmation.

The True Adonis

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2010, 10:47:29 AM »
"We're not in a big rush" on health care, Pelosi said. "Pause, reflect."

Din't she imply a few days ago that Health Care would still pass? I bet she was one of those Dems that came up with the ideas of getting it to the President's desk before Brown even took his seat or delaying Brown's confirmation.
I hope not, but it still could easily pass under Budget Reconciliation.  Only 50 votes will be needed and they do have that.  I don`t think they will do that as Barney Frank has said he DOES NOT want to do that at all and WILL NOT pull that measure.  So hopefully these bills will die.

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2010, 10:51:35 AM »
I hope not, but it still could easily pass under Budget Reconciliation.  Only 50 votes will be needed and they do have that.  I don`t think they will do that as Barney Frank has said he DOES NOT want to do that at all and WILL NOT pull that measure.  So hopefully these bills will die.

The democrats have only themselves to blame for this thing crashing, and my girl Palin of course.  ;D  ;D

She is taking out the left one marxist at a time!  



  

kcballer

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2010, 10:58:42 AM »
The democrats have only themselves to blame for this thing crashing, and my girl Palin of course.  ;D  ;D

She is taking out the left one marxist at a time! 

 

Palin did what exactly? Lie about some death panels? Come on 333 she did nothing.  The most vocal opponents were those who are currently on govt run healthcare - medicare and mediaid seniors who believed their benefits would be cut by reform.  If a public option had of been put through without changes to medicare spending levels it would have been one of the most popular move the democrats have ever done.  It would be un-repeal-able just like medicare is now.  It would have helped millions of Americans and it would have guaranteed another Obama term.  Problem is Dems got too caught up in who was giving them money and weren't cutthroat enough to say 'this is real reform and change that is needed, the opposition is either misinformed (i.e. death panel nonsense) or scared because they don't understand what this means for them, so lets put it out there in clear terms and get this sh8t done' 
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2010, 11:02:27 AM »
Palin did what exactly? Lie about some death panels? Come on 333 she did nothing.  The most vocal opponents were those who are currently on govt run healthcare - medicare and mediaid seniors who believed their benefits would be cut by reform.  If a public option had of been put through without changes to medicare spending levels it would have been one of the most popular move the democrats have ever done.  It would be un-repeal-able just like medicare is now.  It would have helped millions of Americans and it would have guaranteed another Obama term.  Problem is Dems got too caught up in who was giving them money and weren't cutthroat enough to say 'this is real reform and change that is needed, the opposition is either misinformed (i.e. death panel nonsense) or scared because they don't understand what this means for them, so lets put it out there in clear terms and get this sh8t done' 

She was the first one out there on this horrific bill.  There is no denying that KC. 

kcballer

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 11:07:47 AM »
She was the first one out there on this horrific bill.  There is no denying that KC. 

No she wasn't republicans were against this bill from the very beginning.  She just got publicity because she's Palin not because she spoke the truth (which she didn't) or because she was first (which she wasn't).  You're way way way overestimating her 333.  She got called out for the biggest lie of 2009 on it.  Hardly a distinguishing honor.  Not only that but in 2010 she's started off with the 'all of them' line again.  what newspapers do you read? all of them.  who is your favorite founding father? all of them.  Gosh imagine her as pres - president which middle eastern country should we attack? all of them.  which korea is the bad one? all of them. 
Abandon every hope...

240 is Back

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2010, 11:08:39 AM »
yeah, please please let's drop the Palin talk and focus on people who are less polarizing and more credible. 

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2010, 11:10:14 AM »
yeah, please please let's drop the Palin talk and focus on people who are less polarizing and more credible. 

240 - yes or no - was she the first voice out there mobilizing opposition to this?

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 11:12:20 AM »
240 - yes or no - was she the first voice out there mobilizing opposition to this?
The Single Payer advocates were actually the first.  Do you not remember me telling you in April that this bill was just a handout to the Insurance companies?  In fact, I may bump the thread so you can see it.

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2010, 11:13:28 AM »
The Single Payer advocates were actually the first.  Do you not remember me telling you in April that this bill was just a handout to the Insurance companies?  In fact, I may bump the thread so you can see it.

Ugggh . . . . the term "Death Panels" was far more prevalent than "progressives" like yourself screaming for more govt. 

BM OUT

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2010, 11:13:34 AM »
I dont believe for a second that it was possible to pass a public option.If you were a congressman or senator from a conservative state there was no way you could vote for that and think you could get re-elected.Thats why they dropped it.NO ONE wants the government in charge of health care and the government option would have driven the private sector out of the health care buisiness and it would have been 100% government run.These are the same people who have bankrupted medicaid,medicare,social security,the post office.

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2010, 11:18:20 AM »
"240 - yes or no - was she the first voice out there mobilizing opposition to this?"

it was months ago, but I remember some points being

1) some form of these decision panels were in place during Dubya

2) she may have been the first mainstream voice to talk about it, I dunno.  I highly doubt she happened to be reading thru the legislation during a scholarly mood and came up with it on her own.  Is TA correct that some advocates talked about this long before Palin?


I love how you assign all the credit to her when anything she attaches herself to succeeds - but she deserves no blame when things she is attached to happen to fail.

240 is Back

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2010, 11:21:40 AM »
And since you brought her up, 333386... and listed one of her successes...

Can you list 5 sarah Palin failures?

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2010, 11:22:28 AM »
"240 - yes or no - was she the first voice out there mobilizing opposition to this?"

it was months ago, but I remember some points being

1) some form of these decision panels were in place during Dubya

2) she may have been the first mainstream voice to talk about it, I dunno.  I highly doubt she happened to be reading thru the legislation during a scholarly mood and came up with it on her own.  Is TA correct that some advocates talked about this long before Palin?


I love how you assign all the credit to her when anything she attaches herself to succeeds - but she deserves no blame when things she is attached to happen to fail.

I said she started the ball rolling, which she did.  And BTW - 240 - as much as I like you bro, and you know you are my favortie poster here by far, I TOLD YOU SO!  

kcballer

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2010, 11:24:46 AM »
I dont believe for a second that it was possible to pass a public option.If you were a congressman or senator from a conservative state there was no way you could vote for that and think you could get re-elected.Thats why they dropped it.NO ONE wants the government in charge of health care and the government option would have driven the private sector out of the health care buisiness and it would have been 100% government run.These are the same people who have bankrupted medicaid,medicare,social security,the post office.

The thing is Billy.  Under a proper public option, it's just that, an option.  You do not have to take it if you wish to have private insurance.  Otherwise yes you would be covered for emergency service and would be able to pay for a larger amount of coverage if you wished.  

There is no evidence of the private sector being driven out because of this, in fact it would most likely help the private sector.  The people most likely to be covered by the public option are those who either can not afford insurance or have pre existing conditions.  Anyone with money would keep there private insurance because as you claim 'the govt can't run anything' so why would you join the public option if you still have the ability to be privately insured?
Abandon every hope...

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2010, 11:26:46 AM »
And since you brought her up, 333386... and listed one of her successes...

Can you list 5 sarah Palin failures?


1.  Katie Couric interview.
2.  Katie Couric interview.
3.  Katie Couric interview.
4.  Katie Couric interview.
5.  Katie Couric interview. 

Kazan

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2010, 11:28:27 AM »
The thing is Billy.  Under a proper public option, it's just that, an option.  You do not have to take it if you wish to have private insurance.  Otherwise yes you would be covered for emergency service and would be able to pay for a larger amount of coverage if you wished.  

There is no evidence of the private sector being driven out because of this, in fact it would most likely help the private sector.  The people most likely to be covered by the public option are those who either can not afford insurance or have pre existing conditions.  Anyone with money would keep there private insurance because as you claim 'the govt can't run anything' so why would you join the public option if you still have the ability to be privately insured?

Nice try, but explain to me why any buisness would keep dealing with insurance companies when they could simply dump their employee's into the public sector plan? It would save them alot of money, and the insurance companies slowly but surley get put out of buisness.
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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2010, 11:28:43 AM »

240 is Back

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2010, 11:29:47 AM »
So only 1 mistake in her entire career?

Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2010, 11:31:19 AM »
The soft side of me almost feels bad for Obama since the failures are mounting daily.  

The hard side of me says - screw him, he made his bed sleep in it.  

The practical side of me says he should fire Rahmn and Geithner.  

The reality side of me says Obama is going to double down on stupidity at this point.  


Soul Crusher

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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2010, 11:34:45 AM »
So only 1 mistake in her entire career?

No,

Seriously 240 -

1.  Katie Couric interview

2.  Quiting the job in alaska without describing in details what she did in the book.  She should have called out the left for what they were doing at the time and exposed those vermin for what they are.
   


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Re: ObamaCare officially dead - YES! YES!
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2010, 11:36:10 AM »
honestly, I dont think she knew those reasons when she quit, when she did quit.

She talked for 20+ minutes about why she quit.  Everything from achieving lame duck status at 65% of term served to "throwing a hail mary pass to a slam dunk".

Why do you suppose she didn't "call out the left" at the time?  Why wait, then include it in a book that she co-wrote?