Author Topic: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread  (Read 34620 times)

bigkid

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2010, 01:38:59 PM »
Agree, he looked awesome in his '78 Uni win. WTF happen to him between 78-80 ???
Probably started using HIT in 78

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2010, 01:41:19 PM »
You can argue all you want that Arnold shouldn't have won in 1980 but Mike sure as fuck didn't

Lion666

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2010, 05:30:16 PM »
HaHaHaHa....yes.

Arnold owned Mentzer and told him  "you have small pecs and a fat stomach!!"

Arnold was a true Getbigger, Mentzer never recovered.

yeah,,, remember seeing something about that,,, didn't arnold tell him that during the press conference or something....
also,,, think there was a story about some type of crowd unrest after the winner was announced...
if any knows any stories regarding the 80 O,,, feel free to share.  :)

Lion666

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2010, 05:35:49 PM »
You can argue all you want that Arnold shouldn't have won in 1980 but Mike sure as fuck didn't

QFT ND

that last pic is very telling,,, standing relaxed is a very important "pose" especially years ago... knowing how to do it the right way is signs of being pro,,, show strengths, hide weakness, bb'n in essence.  like ND said, fine argue about arnold but by looking at that last pic,,, just in that pose mentzer was last,,, and thats just relaxed... dennis, frank and arnold have him beat there so...
obviously the contest isn't make or break on 1 pose,,, it's the whole/everything,,, mentzer on that day didn't have it/or enough anyway.

jprc10

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2010, 05:03:03 AM »
Probably started using HIT in 78

Wrong, he started using HIT around 1972.

jprc10

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #80 on: January 26, 2010, 05:05:42 AM »
You can argue all you want that Arnold shouldn't have won in 1980 but Mike sure as fuck didn't

Again, pics don't offer enough to judge a physique completely.

nolotil

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #81 on: January 26, 2010, 05:09:30 AM »
I'm ready to bring the Arnold VS Mike Mentzer (Volume Training VS HIT) to a conclusion for once and for all.  I hereby go on record saying that Arnold is The Man, that Volume Training is the best way to go, and Mike Mentzer was a weirdo.  End of story.
no ,, walk the middle road not road of extremes,, science backs this in the gym and results too for naturals..both arnie and mike were drug users so waste of time to analyse their training in general

nolotil

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2010, 05:14:13 AM »
The mentzer way is best for naturals due to recovery from excercise. If you take roids then volume is ok.

no no,, please stiop this,, drugs change everythiung and create bigger error of margin when it comes to training and nutrition,,neither of those ways is best,, HIT vs volume is too polarized and best is in between..,

jwb

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #83 on: January 26, 2010, 05:14:44 AM »
I feel like HIT is superior but yet so few adhere to it long term compared to volume so which is really superior?

I still think HIT should be cycled with periods of sub max effort once a plateau is reached... max effort all the time just doesn't seem to work.

nolotil

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #84 on: January 26, 2010, 05:17:43 AM »
I feel like HIT is superior but yet so few adhere to it long term compared to volume so which is really superior?

I still think HIT should be cycled with periods of sub max effort once a plateau is reached... max effort all the time just doesn't seem to work.

you must define hIT,, there are many kinds of HIT,, some ok, some disastorus,, in general waste of time to limit thinking to HIT vs volume...

MORTALCOIL

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #85 on: January 26, 2010, 05:19:03 AM »
I feel like HIT is superior but yet so few adhere to it long term compared to volume so which is really superior?

I still think HIT should be cycled with periods of sub max effort once a plateau is reached... max effort all the time just doesn't seem to work.

Naturals should periodize and get off weeks quite. You can't put your under stress all the time.If you only train HIT, your joints and nervous system will just give up on you at one point. Too much volume will also wear you down. You also have to adjust your nutrition so it creates a balance problem on the long term. There's no "real" way to go.

jprc10

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #86 on: January 26, 2010, 05:21:45 AM »
you must define hIT,, there are many kinds of HIT,, some ok, some disastorus,, in general waste of time to limit thinking to HIT vs volume...

I agree with you, no need to think HIT vs Volume.
Why not train as hard as possible and adjust training volume according to your own ability to recover and frequency.

jwb

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2010, 05:24:55 AM »
for me HIT is 7-8 sets per session of balls to the wall supra max efforts (maybe 20-24 total sets per workout with prep sets if you believe in them).

that is damn hard to keep up for very long.

nolotil

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2010, 05:33:33 AM »
for me HIT is 7-8 sets per session of balls to the wall supra max efforts (maybe 20-24 total sets per workout with prep sets if you believe in them).

that is damn hard to keep up for very long.

training must be periodized :: period of heavy progressive traiing then period of lighter training so body gets a break

1 set failure per body part ;; shit training for anyone except total newbie, way supoptimal proved by science MANY years ago,, proved in gym MANY years ago,,
20 set failure ; overkill for anyone,, some peopel can get result from this trining abut uncessacary volume per bodypart,, many wont get any result from this training

middle road:: 4-10 set per body part depending on what training level you are on. failur not a must and never do all set to failure,, but yes some people can but many cant and will burn out,,

total newbie: 1-3 set via fullbody 2-3 workout per week (1-6monyhhs..sometimes 1-12 months)
intermediate 1: upper/lower 3-4 workout per week 4-8 set ,, mostly5-12 reps (1-2 year too forever depending on goals,.,)
intermediate stage 2 + advanced: many times necessary to split body in more parts...body partds worked every 5th day or pick 1-2 muscle group and specialize and work them 2x timer per week rest once per week at maintaince,, sets 4-10

nolotil

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2010, 05:56:37 AM »
BMI says a lot about the effectiveness of a training method & muscle density.

Yeah Mike's pecs weren't the ultimate but his overall proportions were way better than Arnold. Arnold had weak tri's compared with his bi's, had no thick legs compared with his upperbody, had a wide waist, his chest overpowered his delts and he had only serious conditioning in 74-75.

Arnold was and is way overhyped because of his large frame, charisma and his careers outside the bbing area.

no,, this is crazy post,, BMI says NOTHING about the training,,, it tells you they USE drugs and have higher (lean) BMI than natural can ever have,,,

very very crazy reasoning trying to compare HIT vs volume via BMI comparison of mentzer vs arnie,, on MANY levels.,

rubbish


Lord Humungous

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #90 on: January 26, 2010, 07:29:38 AM »
HaHaHaHa....yes.

Arnold owned Mentzer and told him  "you have small pecs and a fat stomach!!"

Arnold was a true Getbigger, Mentzer never recovered.

He also said "Reg Park is a judge and I just swallowed his load, Im a shoe in Metzner!"
X

DroppingPlates

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2010, 08:36:31 AM »
Wrong, he started using HIT around 1972.

Haha, don't take that fucker so serious  ;)

DroppingPlates

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2010, 08:54:23 AM »
training must be periodized :: period of heavy progressive traiing then period of lighter training so body gets a break

1 set failure per body part ;; shit training for anyone except total newbie, way supoptimal proved by science MANY years ago,, proved in gym MANY years ago,,
20 set failure ; overkill for anyone,, some peopel can get result from this trining abut uncessacary volume per bodypart,, many wont get any result from this training

middle road:: 4-10 set per body part depending on what training level you are on. failur not a must and never do all set to failure,, but yes some people can but many cant and will burn out,,

total newbie: 1-3 set via fullbody 2-3 workout per week (1-6monyhhs..sometimes 1-12 months)
intermediate 1: upper/lower 3-4 workout per week 4-8 set ,, mostly5-12 reps (1-2 year too forever depending on goals,.,)
intermediate stage 2 + advanced: many times necessary to split body in more parts...body partds worked every 5th day or pick 1-2 muscle group and specialize and work them 2x timer per week rest once per week at maintaince,, sets 4-10

Glad to hear about periodization. Both HIT and V training have their weaknesses, esp when done for a long periods. BB-wise, I see the human body not as a machine but rather as a complex control system which adapts itself to certain parameters like training (more specific: volume, frequency, workload, etc), food (calories from macronutrients, water, supplements, etc), rest and mental state. The challenge in bbing is to adjust these parameters continuously to get the best results.
One of the most interesting training methods I've tried the last decade is HST training. I won't say it's 'perfect' but it's a well thought & practical training protocol.

DroppingPlates

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #93 on: January 26, 2010, 09:07:11 AM »
no,, this is crazy post,, BMI says NOTHING about the training,,, it tells you they USE drugs and have higher (lean) BMI than natural can ever have,,,

very very crazy reasoning trying to compare HIT vs volume via BMI comparison of mentzer vs arnie,, on MANY levels.,

rubbish



I won't say that BMI is the ultimate performance indicator. Mike didn't had the best genes as Arnold had (flat chest, smaller frame and so on) but IMO he utilized his potential much more than Arnold did. In this perspective I see a guy like Branch Warren in the same light. Both Arnold as Mike had access to the best PED's those days, so I don't see that as an excuse that Arnold didn't achieved his (almost) fullest potential like Menzer did in '77-'78

ARNIE1947

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2010, 06:14:31 AM »
DO WATCH THE ARNOLD VS MIKE MENTZER  PART -I AND PART - II , VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE , BY


http://www.youtube.com/user/goli0477

-------------------------------------------------------
PART 2

&feature=related

------------------------------------------------------
PART 1
&feature=related

-----------------

ARNIE1947

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #95 on: January 27, 2010, 06:26:13 AM »
ARNIE'S 1980 SHAPE ....

ARNIE1947

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #96 on: January 27, 2010, 06:33:59 AM »
PROOF HIGH VOLUME INCREASES LIFE SPAN ... !

jprc10

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #97 on: January 27, 2010, 07:23:36 AM »
PROOF HIGH VOLUME INCREASES LIFE SPAN ... !

 ::) I hope you were joking.

DroppingPlates

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #98 on: January 27, 2010, 08:42:47 AM »
PROOF HIGH VOLUME INCREASES LIFE SPAN ... !
Hi Arnold's PR representative  ::)

Yeah lets forget his open hearth surgery in '97, this was just a 'genetic' thing  ::)

ARNIE1947

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Re: Arnold VS Mentzer: The Definitive Thread
« Reply #99 on: January 30, 2010, 05:36:19 AM »
PUMPING AT COPENHAGEN