Former Secretary of Defense talked about Earthquake and Volcano Weapons

[Hugo Chavez]

"Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.--Former Secretary of Defense William Cohen

Why on earth would Cohen think it's even possible? But here he is talking about it as a legit concern???  according to people here, its impossible and to silly to even mention...

http://thememoryhole.org/mil/cohen-ecoweapons.htm

[The Luke]

Here's a post of mine (from another thread) which illustrates why a military person with very little science training would consider such nonsense:

...Foo Fighters; UFOs; Y-bombs; Gay-bombs; weaponised botulism; weaponised bubonic plague; weaponised ebola; neutron bombs; Red Mercury; Nazi nuclear weaponry; Nazi radar-proof planes; nuclear pulse propulsion; electromagnetically-induced anti-grav propulsion; "Neuro-phone" intra-cranial sound-projection; LSD induced "Manchurian Candidate" brainwashing/brain-programming; hypnosis induced "Manchurian Candidate" brainwashing/brain-programming; sleep-inducing microwave cannons; vomit-inducing microwave cannons; diarrhea-inducing "Brown Noise" infrasound; pain-inducing super-high-frequency ultrasound; remote-viewing (they spent billions on this bullshit); remote-viewing spying; dowsing; Montauk project mind control research...

...all of these are examples of supposedly new and dangerous technologies which never panned out, but nonetheless were cited by agencies such as the CIA as clear and present dangers.


I could go on, but suffice it to say that military types have been citing the supposed threat posed by theoretical weapons technology since the Industrial Revolution.

It's a form of fund raising for these agencies. View the HAARP Project in this context.

The Luke

[SAMSON123]

A military person in general possess very little intelligence in general, so the opinion of such a person is thrown out with the trash. These devices you mention in that post already exist. We all know of DARPA (once MKULTRA) and their extensive mind control experimentation. All developed to create the ultimate soldier. Sonic cannons, microwave weapons, pulse technology, tasers etc has already been in use in Iraq, Eastern europe and even in america as crown control. Project Montauk, Project PaperClip, Project BlueBeam, HARRP are just a few of the things the US government has been working on to advance military capabilities and harnessing the power of nature to cause hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanos etc etc. Has any of this been perfected to an absolute..more than likely not, but if any promise of it working showed itself, the US government will sink BILLIONS into it to get it to work. As it stands the US government is still sinking in BILLIONS into these projects, which tells me that they must work...not perfectly, but they do work.

[The Luke]

Foo Fighters... total bullshit.
UFOs... no proper evidence.
Y-bombs... no such technology exists; no such mechanism has ever been demonstrated.
Gay-bombs... no such technology exists; no such mechanism has ever been demonstrated.
Weaponised botulism... easy to produce, almost impossible to distribute properly.
Weaponised bubonic plague... easy to produce, almost impossible to distribute properly.
Weaponised ebola... easy to produce, almost impossible to distribute properly.
Neutron bombs... never demonstrated.
Red Mercury... total bullshit.
Nazi nuclear weaponry... no proper evidence.
Nazi radar-proof planes... they never flew.
Nuclear pulse propulsion... never demonstrated.
Electromagnetically-induced anti-grav propulsion...  no such mechanism has ever been demonstrated.
"Neuro-phone" intra-cranial sound-projection... never demonstrated.
LSD induced "Manchurian Candidate" brainwashing/brain-programming... total bullshit.
Hypnosis induced "Manchurian Candidate" brainwashing/brain-programming... total bullshit.
Sleep-inducing microwave cannons... never demonstrated and no such mechanism known.
Vomit-inducing microwave cannons... only possible with sound.
Diarrhea-inducing "Brown Noise" infrasound... never demonstrated.
Pain-inducing super-high-frequency ultrasound... only possible with microwaves.
Remote-viewing... total bullshit.
Remote-viewing spying... total bullshit.
Dowsing... total bullshit.
Montauk project mind control research... total bullshit.

Is there one specific point you'd like to dispute Samson123?


The Luke

[The Luke]

Luke, is it true that Tesla made tested a small resonating device about the size of a pack of cigaretts that almost brought down a building?

...yes it is true.

However, the device in question was only a sort of reciprocating pendulum/ram. It could only shake small objects, such as a metal structural beam. But if this beam was part of a larger structure, the pendulum device would build up a sympathetic vibration at the fundamental frequency of the structure... and could (in theory) amplify the vibration to the point of tearing the structure apart.

The same thing happens when children push each other on a swing... very small pushes, at just the right time (in synch with the fundamental frequency of the swing) add up to very large oscillations; far beyond what the child could accomplish with one single push.


But this effect is only seen with objects comparable in size to the scale of the oscillations themselves.

You can't scale it up to tectonic plates.

But non-scientists can be hoodwinked by such pseudo-science... and if people with very little understanding of science are put in charge of big budgets, this happens:
http://gizmodo.com/5455692/ade+651-magic-wand-bomb-detector-is-a-fraud-probably-killed-hundreds


The Luke

[The Luke]

Luke, so it would be impossible to cause oscillations timed right to shake the earth?  Just wondering, we lived a couple miles from a mine site a relatively small amount of explosives caused a pretty good shaking for us back then.  What would happen if explosives were timed, each one adding on to the swing effect you mentioned?  If a little explosive shakes a house, could timed explosives oscillate to a much larger effect?  Is that something that's theoretically possible?

Theoretically possible, yes.

But let's consider the practicalities...

Imagine attempting to trigger a small earthquake along the San Andreas fault. You'd need to completely geophys the entire test area... let's say 1,000 square miles: the size of a tectonic structure. So that would take a couple of years and cost several hundred million dollars and thousands of man hours.

Now you need a supercomputer to calculate where to place the bombs... that would cost several hundred million dollars more and may take thousands of years with current computing capabilities.

Then you have to plant the bombs... these would have to be high-yield thermonuclear warheads, and you might need hundreds (or even thousands) of them; placed along the fault line... maybe even miles deep.


So that's billions of dollars; an impossible computing challenge; hundreds of nuclear warheads; and years of geophys surveying and deep core drilling.

Hardly practical.

You'd have more luck just randomly filling deep-pit mineshafts near a faultline with billions of litres of lubricant (detergent or oil) and just wait for a "slip". This has been shown to cause small tremors.


The Luke 

[SAMSON123]

Foo Fighters... total bullshit.
UFOs... no proper evidence.
Y-bombs... no such technology exists; no such mechanism has ever been demonstrated.
Gay-bombs... no such technology exists; no such mechanism has ever been demonstrated.
Weaponised botulism... easy to produce, almost impossible to distribute properly.
Weaponised bubonic plague... easy to produce, almost impossible to distribute properly.
Weaponised ebola... easy to produce, almost impossible to distribute properly.
Neutron bombs... never demonstrated.
Red Mercury... total bullshit.
Nazi nuclear weaponry... no proper evidence.
Nazi radar-proof planes... they never flew.
Nuclear pulse propulsion... never demonstrated.
Electromagnetically-induced anti-grav propulsion...  no such mechanism has ever been demonstrated.
"Neuro-phone" intra-cranial sound-projection... never demonstrated.
LSD induced "Manchurian Candidate" brainwashing/brain-programming... total bullshit.
Hypnosis induced "Manchurian Candidate" brainwashing/brain-programming... total bullshit.
Sleep-inducing microwave cannons... never demonstrated and no such mechanism known.
Vomit-inducing microwave cannons... only possible with sound.
Diarrhea-inducing "Brown Noise" infrasound... never demonstrated.
Pain-inducing super-high-frequency ultrasound... only possible with microwaves.
Remote-viewing... total bullshit.
Remote-viewing spying... total bullshit.
Dowsing... total bullshit.
Montauk project mind control research... total bullshit.

Is there one specific point you'd like to dispute Samson123?


The Luke

Because YOU claim something as untrue or nonworking because YOU know nothing about it or have not seen it, does not make it so. The only thing you prove again luke is your lack of knowledge in the reality of military and scientist around the world...then again you have plenty of company on this board who think the latest technology is only what they see. The technology that exist in militaries and governments around the world is generally 25 years ahead of what the consumer knows as the greatest technology today.

[The Luke]

Because YOU claim something as untrue or nonworking because YOU know nothing about it or have not seen it, does not make it so. The only thing you prove again luke is your lack of knowledge in the reality of military and scientist around the world...then again you have plenty of company on this board who think the latest technology is only what they see. The technology that exist in militaries and governments around the world is generally 25 years ahead of what the consumer knows as the greatest technology today.

So, you cannot pick even one of those examples that I might be wrong about...?


The Luke

[SAMSON123]

Luke, is it true that Tesla made tested a small resonating device about the size of a pack of cigaretts that almost brought down a building?

Telegram, July 11, 1935 -

Nikola Tesla revealed that an earthquake which drew police and ambulances to the region of his laboratory at 48 E. Houston St., New York, in 1898, was the result of a little machine he was experimenting with at the time which "you could put in your overcoat pocket."

The bewildered newspapermen pounced upon this as at least one thing they could understand and "the father of modern electricity" told what had happened as follows:

"I was experimenting with vibrations. I had one of my machines going and I wanted to see if I could get it in tune with the vibration of the building. I put it up notch after notch. There was a peculiar cracking sound.

"I asked my assistants where did the sound come from. They did not know. I put the machine up a few more notches. There was a louder cracking sound. I knew I was approaching the vibration of the steel building. I pushed the machine a little higher. "Suddenly all the heavy machinery in the place was flying around. I grabbed a hammer and broke the machine. The building would have been about our ears in another few minutes. Outside in the street there was pandemonium.

"The police and ambulances arrived. I told my assistants to say nothing. We told the police it must have been an earthquake. That's all they ever knew about it."

Some shrewd reporter asked Dr. Tesla at this point what he would need to destroy the Empire State Building and the doctor replied: "Vibration will do anything. It would only be necessary to step up the vibrations of the machine to fit the natural vibration of the building and the building would come crashing down. That's why soldiers break step crossing a bridge."


http://tribes.tribe.net/haarp/thread/25409c43-8067-46b6-9307-1fad26f9080a

Not knocking you Hugo but this story sounds about as credible as the Enquirer and the lady having an alien baby. There have been accounts and inventions attributed to Tesla that are beyond credible. Just like the fake story of Franklin flying a kite in the rain and it being struck by lightening and he supposedly discovering electricity. UM YEAH RIGHT! Being struck by lightening directly the only thing he would have discovered is how fast death comes.

The issue I have is no one has ever reproduced any of these experiments and achieved the same results or even close to the results. Any device can reach the frequency of another object...that is how tuning forks are used to tune pianos. The difference is it is not that a frequency can bring down a building, bridge, etc it is the AMPLITUDE AND FREQUENCY that makes something like this possible. In short you need a very POWERFUL FREQUENCY AND AMPLITUDE to make another object shake. A device of only a few pounds can never build up the potential and kinetic energy to make a far heavier object like and entire building or city block no less, shake.

An example of this was shown on  some years ago in a documentary about the US mint. The machines that coin money are built to operate in a horizontal motion because the machine, which weighs many tons and operating a high recipricating speed would literally cause the floor of the mint to shake. That shaking required a 5 ton ram on each press plunging up and down at speeds that produced thousands of coins per minute. Imagine a five ton ram being moved up and down thousands of times per minute would be necessary to cause a heavily reinforced concrete floor, but not the whole building, to vibrate, yet according to these Tesla accounts this small invention of just a few pounds and size is supposedly able to shake an entire city block to the point of making a people on the street think there is an earthquake in progress. I even checked on the USGS site and found nothing of an earthquake was recorded in 1898 in New York. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/historical_state.php#new_york . So to use your term I AM CALLING BULLSHIT on this.

(AFTER THOUGHT)

Tesla claimed that the machine had the building and its contents shaking so bad after he turned the machine up that the whole building was about to come down. So why did he not turn the power down or off to avoid this? Why would he use a hammer to DESTROY the device? How did and why did the police supposedly come to him and question him on the "earthquake" ? Why would the police think he caused the earthquake?

[Soul Crusher]

Theoretically possible, yes.

But let's consider the practicalities...

Imagine attempting to trigger a small earthquake along the San Andreas fault. You'd need to completely geophys the entire test area... let's say 1,000 square miles: the size of a tectonic structure. So that would take a couple of years and cost several hundred million dollars and thousands of man hours.

Now you need a supercomputer to calculate where to place the bombs... that would cost several hundred million dollars more and may take thousands of years with current computing capabilities.

Then you have to plant the bombs... these would have to be high-yield thermonuclear warheads, and you might need hundreds (or even thousands) of them; placed along the fault line... maybe even miles deep.


So that's billions of dollars; an impossible computing challenge; hundreds of nuclear warheads; and years of geophys surveying and deep core drilling.

Hardly practical.

You'd have more luck just randomly filling deep-pit mineshafts near a faultline with billions of litres of lubricant (detergent or oil) and just wait for a "slip". This has been shown to cause small tremors.


The Luke 

Your posts on these topics are much better than those on economics or politics.      

[240 is Back]

"The technology that exist in militaries and governments around the world is generally 25 years ahead of what the consumer knows as the greatest technology today."

I think this is a very good point.  For us message board warriors to think we have ANY clue what kind of advanced technology or weapons systems that govts have would be asinine.

[SAMSON123]

So, you cannot pick even one of those examples that I might be wrong about...?


The Luke

YOU'RE WRONG ON ALL TOPICS!!!!!!

[The Luke]

I think this is a very good point.  For us message board warriors to think we have ANY clue what kind of advanced technology or weapons systems that govts have would be asinine.

...everything Samson123 cites as an example of advanced military technology is something that was mooted as a POSSIBLE future technology in the mainstream media, but has since been shown, under scrutiny from the physics/science community to be based on a faulty premise.

Let me give you an example:
During the Cold War, U2 spy plane reconnaissance showed that Russia had approx 300 nuclear missile bunkers. The military brass ASSUMED the Russians were only showing off a fraction of their true missile potential (perhaps 10%)... and so, they went to the US political class begging for the budget to match Russia's 3,000 warhead armoury.

The truth was that the U2 spy planes had spotted pretty much all of Russia's ICBM missile silos... they only had 300 silos: NOT 3,000.

Furthermore, the Russians only had 30 warheads... it was just cheaper to build ten times as many conspicuous empty silos as needed and let the Americans count them from 60,000 feet.


Now, if someone with even a modicum of common sense was involved they would have known that 3,000 nuclear nuclear warheads (what American ended up producing to match the Russians) was enough firepower to kill everyone on Earth several times over... totally superfluous, and American spent the pensions of all it's workers paying for this bullshit.

It's akin to your nextdoor neighbour storing a hydrogen bomb in his basement, so you spend your life savings on hundred hydrogen bombs to hide in your basement... for self defense.

Stupidity... there is a chronic worldwide excess of stupidity.


The Luke  

[SAMSON123]

...everything Samson123 cites as an example of advanced military technology is something that was mooted as a POSSIBLE future technology in the mainstream media, but has since been shown, under scrutiny from the physics/science community to be based on a faulty premise.

Let me give you an example:
During the Cold War, U2 spy plane reconnaissance showed that Russia had approx 300 nuclear missile bunkers. The military brass ASSUMED the Russians were only showing off a fraction of their true missile potential (perhaps 10%)... and so, they went to the US political class begging for the budget to match Russia's 3,000 warhead armoury.

The truth was that the U2 spy planes had spotted pretty much all of Russia's ICBM missile silos... they only had 300 silos: NOT 3,000.

Furthermore, the Russians only had 30 warheads... it was just cheaper to build ten times as many conspicuous empty silos as needed and let the Americans count them from 60,000 feet.


Now, if someone with even a modicum of common sense was involved they would have known that 3,000 nuclear nuclear warheads (what American ended up producing to match the Russians) was enough firepower to kill everyone on Earth several times over... totally superfluous, and American spent the pensions of all it's workers paying for this bullshit.

It's akin to your nextdoor neighbour storing a hydrogen bomb in his basement, so you spend your life savings on hundred hydrogen bombs to hide in your basement... for self defense.

Stupidity... there is a chronic worldwide excess of stupidity.


The Luke  

YES LUKE THERE DEFINITELY IS... and we don't need you adding exponentially to it....

[The Luke]

YES LUKE THERE DEFINITELY IS... and we don't need you adding exponentially to it....

Well, I have a good standard of scientific knowledge... explain it to me. (worst gimmick ever)


The Luke

[GigantorX]

...everything Samson123 cites as an example of advanced military technology is something that was mooted as a POSSIBLE future technology in the mainstream media, but has since been shown, under scrutiny from the physics/science community to be based on a faulty premise.

Let me give you an example:
During the Cold War, U2 spy plane reconnaissance showed that Russia had approx 300 nuclear missile bunkers. The military brass ASSUMED the Russians were only showing off a fraction of their true missile potential (perhaps 10%)... and so, they went to the US political class begging for the budget to match Russia's 3,000 warhead armoury.

The truth was that the U2 spy planes had spotted pretty much all of Russia's ICBM missile silos... they only had 300 silos: NOT 3,000.

Furthermore, the Russians only had 30 warheads... it was just cheaper to build ten times as many conspicuous empty silos as needed and let the Americans count them from 60,000 feet.


Now, if someone with even a modicum of common sense was involved they would have known that 3,000 nuclear nuclear warheads (what American ended up producing to match the Russians) was enough firepower to kill everyone on Earth several times over... totally superfluous, and American spent the pensions of all it's workers paying for this bullshit.

It's akin to your nextdoor neighbour storing a hydrogen bomb in his basement, so you spend your life savings on hundred hydrogen bombs to hide in your basement... for self defense.

Stupidity... there is a chronic worldwide excess of stupidity.


The Luke  

I remember that story, it gives one hell of a perspective on that point in time. Bomber Gap, Missile Gap...it goes on and on. It isn't always about what your "enemy(s)" have it is sometimes what your enemies will/might/could have.

Got to drum it up, several large manufacturers are depending on it.