Author Topic: How long to go into Ketosis?  (Read 7508 times)

darksol

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How long to go into Ketosis?
« on: January 30, 2010, 02:02:38 PM »
Started the Keto Diet yesterday.  using the test stripes to check for Ketones.  Thus far nothing.  How long does it take to reach Ketosis?  I have been drinking lots of water, and all I have eaten has been eggs, cheese, spinich ( steamed ), and 1 cup of black organic instant coffee.  I haven't had a chance to hit the gym yet, just been working on my computer all day. 

Curious as to everyone else's experiences

coltrane

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2010, 07:34:51 AM »
<<ENTER TBOMBZ>>

tbombz

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2010, 11:02:01 AM »
<<ENTER TBOMBZ>>
;D

you should get into "ketosis" within 3 days, as long as your carbs are below threshold and your protien isnt excessive.

however, dont worry abotu ketosis. just stay in a defecit and lift hard.

FREAKgeek

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2010, 05:01:12 PM »
Started the Keto Diet yesterday.  using the test stripes to check for Ketones.  Thus far nothing.  How long does it take to reach Ketosis?  I have been drinking lots of water, and all I have eaten has been eggs, cheese, spinich ( steamed ), and 1 cup of black organic instant coffee.  I haven't had a chance to hit the gym yet, just been working on my computer all day. 

Curious as to everyone else's experiences

I hated it. My energy crashed, got headaches, and couldn't concentrate.

darksol

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2010, 12:10:42 AM »
So far its going good, but I still haven't reached ketosis yet ( took a few days off when family was back in town ) . Been on the diet for the past 2 days straight now.  The only carbs I am eating is trace carbs, and 1/2 cup of oatmeal.  Other than that is a lot of cheese, eggs, tuna, chicken breast, ground beef.  How does artificial sweetners affect Insulin?  I have been using two packets of sweet n low on my oatmeal.  My head feels a little different, but my body is getting noticably tighter. 

coltrane

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2010, 10:22:36 AM »
So far its going good, but I still haven't reached ketosis yet ( took a few days off when family was back in town ) . Been on the diet for the past 2 days straight now.  The only carbs I am eating is trace carbs, and 1/2 cup of oatmeal.  Other than that is a lot of cheese, eggs, tuna, chicken breast, ground beef.  How does artificial sweetners affect Insulin?  I have been using two packets of sweet n low on my oatmeal.  My head feels a little different, but my body is getting noticably tighter. 

I don't think you'll get into ketosis eating the half cup of oats.

darksol

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2010, 03:10:08 PM »
Actually after my last post I went to the bathroom, and the stick was dark pink ( meaning I was in Ketosis ).  However ever since it seems to be just slightly pink.  Meaning I am barely in ketosis.  I will cut the oats down to 1/4 cup in the morning, then use fibrous veges to get the remaining carbs.  Trying to keep carb intake below 30 / day ( all complex, no sugar )

rockyfortune

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2010, 08:33:39 AM »
what's this ketosis you speak about?
footloose and fancy free

darksol

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2010, 04:46:06 AM »
I am not an expert, but its the point at which your body starts using Fat as its primary fuel source.  You basically have to cut out all carbs, with the exception of about 30 - 50 Grams of day.  Its best if these carbs are of the complex type and not sugar.  The rest of your diet should be Protein and fat.  The theory from my understanding is two fold
1. Without sugar you body will not spike insulin levels ( which causes fat storage ).  
2. after 2 -3 days you body depletes your glucagen reserves, and it then uses fat as its primary fuel source.

Its important to maintain your calories with protein and fat.  The fat won't get stored because your Insulin levels stay low.  The High amount of fat helps your body maintain and sometimes increase Test Levels.

Something to understand is that when you body goes into Ketosis, your body can't just burn fat as is. It has to convert your fat into Ketones, which are then used as fuel.  Once you body is running on Ketones you will be able to use test strips to see how far into Ketosis you are.  Its nice because you can adjust your diet to keep yourself in the right level of ketosis.  The idea is to be in a lower to moderate ketosis state but not too high.  Getting too high is dangerous, and will definately lead to your body canabolizing itself.  

The test strips run about $10 for 100 stripes on ebay

For a list of keto foods here is a site I found  http://www.keto.org/foods.htm
I actually have printed this off and have it on my fridge.

When I started this diet I was 218, and now 204.  Its been a little under 2 weeks.  Its nice to see things like the definition in my forearms, and jawline come back.  Its probably going to take a few months to get really cut but so far it seems to be working.  Strength in the gym is down a bit, but My workouts haven't been on a very good schedule ( new baby in the House ).

The only carbs I have been getting is trace carbs, and 1/4 cup of Raw long cut Oatmeal with some artificial sweetener, and cinnamon in the morning.  The rest of the day I am eating String cheese ( no carbs ), 1 lbs of gound beef ( drain the fat ) with some salt and pepper.  Several Cups of Coffee with Heavy Whipping Cream ( no carbs ). Eggs with Cheese, and Tuna / Chicken Salad with a Basamic Vinigrette ( 1 carb / 2 TBSP ).  Besides the coffee I haven't had any stimulants or supplements other than Multi Vitamins.

I will be getting back on my favorite Energy Drink ( Prosportnutrition.net ), but currently product is on back order, so I have been doing my workouts naturally ( kind of sucks )

Thus far I highly recommend this diet.

If anyone else has more information with it, please share.  I am may be incorrect in may ways.  This is just going from my own experiences and what I have read online about it.

FREAKgeek

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2010, 10:54:02 AM »
From Nelson Montana "Bodybuilding Truth":


"THE KETOGENIC FARCE An Expose' of a Disastrous Diet

 When discussing nutritional strategies for the bodybuilder, it's doubtful a discussion can last for two minutes without someone mentioning the ketogenic diet. This controversial method of losing weight and burning fat has become a widely utilized diet plan among bodybuilders embarking on a fat loss diet, yet I sometimes wonder if anyone knows why. It could be that the ketogenic diet falls into the same category as so many other fallacies that are perpetuated through "parroting" in that an authority makes a claim (coupled with some sketchy scientific rationalization), and before long, it spreads among those in the field. After a while, everyone who wants to sound like they know what they're talking about begins repeating the information. Soon, the hyperbole and hypothesis are considered fact. If the information is of a technical, scientific perspective it has an additional snob appeal which appeals to exercise elitists. In an effort to appear "in the know," no one dares to disagree with the popular consensus. So is the case with ketogenic diet.

There are so many things wrong with using ketosis as a fat loss tactic that it's hard to know where to begin. But I shouldn't get ahead of myself. For those of you who are unfamiliar with this diet method, here's a brief outline of the principles involved.

The Ketogenic Diet was written by then 24 year old UCLA kinesiology student, Lyle McDonald. The premise suggests that by excluding carbs from one's diet, the body will then be forced into a state of ketosis, forcing it to burn fat for fuel. I have no argument with that. In fact, when I first read of Mr. McDonald's findings, my initial response was to say: "give me some more groundbreaking information, like the sky is blue or OJ is really guilty."

The concept of cutting carbs in order to lose weight is nothing new. Back in the 40's, when the science of nutrition was in its infancy, the only information coaches had for helping athletes in losing weight was; "lay off the starches." They didn't know nor did they care why it worked. It just did. It was obvious that eating too many carbohydrates would make you fat. If that tactic didn't work they had a back up plan: "Get the fork out of your face."

Worked every time.

Of course, there were physiological reasons for the occurrence and those principles were later compiled and marketed to the general public by a certain Doctor Robert Atkins back in 1973. Fifteen years following Dr. Atkins studies, Dr. Mauro DiPasquale wrote a book called The Anabolic Diet which explained how bodybuilders could implement the high fat diet into their programs for greater muscle gains. (Which was something training coach Vince Gironda advocated in a less formal fashion back in the 1960's). Concurrent with Dr. DiPasquale, Dan Duchaine offered a similar assessment in a document entitled "The Ultimate Dieting Handbook." (Later re-written into "Body Opus.") So my question is this: Why is everyone so impressed with the ketogenic diet? It's essentially old news.

Besides its lack of originality, the concept of the low/no carb diet is also severely flawed. Placing the body in ketosis takes the already bad idea of dropping carbohydrates and makes it worse.

This is why:

For starters, the utilization of ketones for energy induces tremendous metabolic stress. It will work for a short while and cause a dramatic loss of weight but the loss will be temporary, mostly due to its dehydration effect. It can also elicit dangerously low blood sugar levels and places considerable strain on the kidneys. Since the brain requires carbohydrates for fuel, a deficiency can lead to dizziness and disorientation. The current trend of incorporating insulin into the array can lead to such a severe drop in blood sugar, it could instigate a state of comatosis. Mess up and you may mess up big time -- maybe for the last time.

On a pragmatic side, the ketogenic diet is almost impossible to maintain. The food choices are too limiting. Constipation is often a problem. (A big problem). Energy levels plummet resulting in sub par workouts. Your muscles flatten out. The absence of carbs is also extremely catabolic. Any way you slice it, ketosis is an unnatural and unhealthy condition. You're essentially beating up your body in order to lose weight. It's one thing if winning a bodybuilding contest is your goal and you tough it out for a few months, but excluding grains of any kind on a consistent basis is nothing short of self torture. Only the truly obsessed can live day to day in such Spartan denial.

Eat a piece of bread. It won't kill you.

Perhaps the strongest argument to the ineffectiveness of the ketogenic diet comes from the author himself. Lyle's reputation grew quickly and he soon became known as an exercise and nutrition guru throughout the bodybuilding community. He gained notoriety as a popular "ring leader" of an internet newsgroup dispensing his rhetoric with a pompous and almost bullying tone to those who questioned him. He was respected and revered by a loyal following of disciples...until they saw what he looked like.

Now let me preface my next remarks by saying that it isn't necessary to look impressive to be a good coach. However, Lyle, despite the fact that he was young and not particularly big, had what many would consider a hefty bodyfat percentage. Again, you can't blame someone for their genetics, but if you're going to imperiously espouse a system as effective, at least practice what you preach. Lyle was a perfect example of the ketogenic diets failings. It looks good on paper, but in reality, it just doesn't pan out.

Once Lyle's omnipotence was questioned by his former flock, he vowed to get into the best shape of his life using the principles of the ketogenic diet. He then posted pictures of himself. Pffft. There was hardly any change! It simply looked as if he started working out a little. The people who frequented the message board were merciless in deriding his efforts. Whether or not the criticism was justified is arguable. Be that as it may, it ostensibly proves that the ketogenic diet isn't a miracle cure.

Still, there are many who will attest to the benefits of the Ketogenic Diet and swear that it worked for them. (Of course, many use fat burning drugs at the same time). I find it especially humorous when someone misinterprets information, yet still gets results. I recently spoke with a competitive bodybuilder who declared he never got more cut than when he eliminated bread, potatoes and pasta from his diet. Then he went on to explain that he ate rice with every meal! Rice?! That's the starchiest, highest glycemic carb in the world! Yet, the diet still worked -- because he ate clean and ate sparingly. There was no way I could convince him his "no carbs" plan was totally off base, so I didn't try.

(Note* Even in Ronnie Coleman's video, there's a point where he's eating his "no carb" meal -- chicken cutlets -- dipped in barbeque sauce!)

The cold hard truth is -- people want to think they're being "high tech." It gives the impression that they're privy to "inside" information which will give them the extra edge. By obtaining a wealth of esoteric scientific knowledge, one can hopefully understand the workings behind a protocol. Well, it's time to wake up and smell the sneakers. Understanding how something works or why it should work, is often in contradiction to what works in the real world (much to the chagrin of many a scientist). Naturally, if fat loss is your objective, excess carbs should be the first to go. But they are still needed. The fact remains, the basis behind any fat loss diet is that you need to burn more calories than you take in. That may be the main reason low carb diets work at all. The food choices are limited and you simply wind up eating less. It may seem appealing to be able to eat hamburgers and sausages but how much of that stuff can you chow down every day at the exclusion of most other foods? I don't know anyone who thinks that lamb chops are a good before- bedtime snack!

If you're thinking about going on the ketogenic diet, you may want to think again. It's only a quick fix which can ultimately backfire by disrupting your metabolism. Don't rely on gimmicks -- even if they're saturated with "sciency" jargon. Keep it simple. Learn proper eating and implement rational calorie restriction if you want to remain lean and hard, year 'round. That's what has always worked. As a matter of fact, it's the only thing that works."

jon cole

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2010, 04:16:39 AM »
whatever studies can say keto diet is for me the most efficient way to diet.

i generally keep most of my strenght, muscle during cut cycle, and without hungry.

asstropin

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2010, 05:40:44 PM »
I tried keto for 1 months, i fell like shit. now im on eat whatever the fuck i want as long as i get enough protein and stay in a caloric deficit and i feel 100x better. 0 energy at all on keto, flat muscle, now im back to being pumped up and feeling good more energy etc...

darksol

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2010, 09:04:16 PM »
If you feel like crap on the Keto diet you need more carbs.  Just because its the KETO diet doesn't mean you can't have any carbs.  You just need to get your Carbs low enough so that when doing a urine test the strip turns pinkish ( telling you that there is a presence of ketones and your body is burning fat ).  Its working great for me.  I just don't touch sugar, and keep my carbs down I am able to stay in Ketosis.

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Re: How long to go into Ketosis?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2010, 02:06:15 PM »
I followed something similar to the Ketosis diet years ago before it was a big deal and basically limited myself to 50g of carbs a day and then i had a big cheat meal every sunday night. I can say that it worked quite well but my workouts suffered badly and i felt like absolute shit for the entire 10 weeks i was on the diet. After the show i went back to eating relatively clean with about 200g of carbs a day and i looked better after 1 week of eating normal than i did at the show. The best condition i was ever in was using a low carb diet around 100g of carbs a day with 100mcg of T3, some anabolics and 30 minutes of high intensity cardio 4 days a week in the morning. There are many different ways to get into shape, just try a few different methods and see what works for you. I would never do the Keto diet again mainly because i felt like ass and my workouts were literally half of what they used to be due to lack of energy, but i know a bunch of guys who have used the Keto diet with great success.

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